Why India wants to Destabalize Pakistan?

[SU50]

okay... how many indians here want pakistan to merge with india??? my grandparents were born and bred in pindi or rawalpindi in pakistan... we had a lot of property there and too an extent my grand-dad used to root for pakistan when india pakistan played cricket... my dad went back there after i was born to see the place where his parents were from... but the question is do i want india to merge with pakistan??? i know i have some sort of natural love for the place cause thats where i am from(just the punjab part lol)... well my family and i would love to go there one day... but the answer is hell no... there are alot more issues there than in india... i dont know why pakistanis think we are out to get them... we are not... just stay out of out of our issues and we will stay out of yours...as far as i know india is not about creating problems in pakistan... its about improving ourself and wish pakistanis best of luck

 

[Omar1984]

okay... how many indians here want pakistan to merge with india??? my grandparents were born and bred in pindi or rawalpindi in pakistan... we had a lot of property there and too an extent my grand-dad used to root for pakistan when india pakistan played cricket... my dad went back there after i was born to see the place where his parents were from... but the question is do i want india to merge with pakistan??? i know i have some sort of natural love for the place cause thats where i am from(just the punjab part lol)... well my family and i would love to go there one day... but the answer is hell no... there are alot more issues there than in india... i dont know why pakistanis think we are out to get them... we are not... just stay out of out of our issues and we will stay out of yours...as far as i know india is not about creating problems in pakistan... its about improving ourself and wish pakistanis best of luck

You must be a minority then because most Indians on the internet talk about Akhand Bharat, a European Union kinda thing

Even check out this thread in this very forum and see the comments made by Indians.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/econom...a-pakistan-china-cannot-live-like-europe.html

I agree with you both Pakistan and India are better off being two separate sovereign nations.

 

[third eye]

You must be a minority then because most Indians on the internet talk about Akhand Bharat, a European Union kinda thing

Even check out this thread in this very forum and see the comments made by Indians.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/econom...a-pakistan-china-cannot-live-like-europe.html

I agree with you both Pakistan and India are better off being two separate sovereign nations.

He is not a minority.

The best thing that happened to us was that were seperated. Only, the manner & timing with which we got seperated ( by the brits who were in a hurry) which is the cause of grief in S asia.

Akhand Bharat is a slogan for the attention seekers & by those who are unaware of its implications..No thank you, we are better off this way.

 

[pakomar]

We have Hindus who get their sunat done too ...... only its circumcision for medical reasons .....

leave the religious practices alone. next you will say those who are having the said procedure done, are JEWS!!!!!

Give a credible proof, I only asked one link where GoP itself has said so ..... nothing beyond that .............
that is all

Ok then tell me who are those people who did n t done their sunat. . Postmortem of the dead bodies found in tribal reign of Pakistan. What are they doing there? Indian already makes laughing stoke of them self in Mumbai attacks. At the moment even US blaming ISI and army our government is dealing the saturation tactically. When the time is right we will show the you.

 

[S-2]

Aren't you the same guy who was stating how the Soviets had never encroached in Pakistan during the Soviet-Afghan war?

You need some real proof that will impress not just America but forty other nations that are engaged in Afghanistan's reconstruction. Can you provide that because they all wish to see this before accepting your claims?

To date that's not been the case.

Please understand that it's not India's objective to de-stabilize their nuclear neighbor.

Even if it were, though, how could corrupt and inefficient RAW do a better job of such than your own home-grown militants supported by wahabbi/salafist money from the Gulf?

Nobody is Pakistan's worst enemy than your own citizens and their arab helpers. Until this is absorbed by Pakistanis sufficient to alter the prevailing stultifying mindset nothing will seriously change.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Please understand that it's not India's objective to de-stabilize their nuclear neighbor.

Even if we were to exclude India's invovlement in Baluchistan as contentious - India's destabilization of East Pakistan leading up to 1971, and the unprovoked military aggression in violation of the Simla Agreement in Siachen in 1984 clearly debunk your assertion above.

 

[Hellfire]

Even if we were to exclude India's invovlement in Baluchistan as contentious - India's destabilization of East Pakistan leading up to 1971, and the unprovoked military aggression in violation of the Simla Agreement in Siachen in 1984 clearly debunk your assertion above.

AM

I think that we can safely assume that the situation has drastically changed with Pakistan now a full fledged nuclear power, irrespective of anyone recognising it or not.

As for Siachen, it is beyond the CFL agreed to as per Shimla Accord, so dispute on dispute!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AM

I think that we can safely assume that the situation has drastically changed with Pakistan now a full fledged nuclear power, irrespective of anyone recognising it or not.

As for Siachen, it is beyond the CFL agreed to as per Shimla Accord, so dispute on dispute!

Disagree - and I had a long exchange with Karnivore on this as well. There is nothing that limits the areas not specifically marked on the LoC from the 'non-aggression' and 'no unilateral alteration of the status quo' parts of Simla.

Siachen was a clear violation of Simla, some of your own Army officers have admitted that in their writings.

Secondly, Pakistan's nukes do not prevent India from destabilizing it - why would they? It does not meet the nuclear use threshold of Pakistan.

The rest, see the reasons I posted at the beginning of the thread.

 

[All-Green]

I guess this argument can go on and on.
There are no real proofs to prove or disprove, only the motives are established and evident in the bitter animosity which the two countries have been engaged in.

The fact remains that India is the most hostile country to Pakistan.

The fact remains that India is cutting off the water supply of Pakistan in a systematic fashion and the weaker the Pakistan state becomes the stronger a position India will be in to dismiss any objections Pakistan has on this most critical flash point.
I am saying this keeping in mind the population of the two mighty neighbors, their demand for electricity and agricultural requirements which all of you people should understand...do take a moment to realize what it shall imply to deprive Pakistan of such a resource which actually is life itself...I see a terrible and most horrible war for resources and certainly India knows it as well...perhaps it also drives India to have a weak and destabilized neighbor which is too deep in the proverbial S H I T to actually have a coherent plan to take on India in a peaceful yet aggressive manner (backed by military/diplomatic pressure) and negotiate a proper settlement.

The fact remains that India and Pakistan are not over the issue of Kashmir even despite a sincere effort by Pakistan (against the wishes of many people) to curb down on Kashmir militant groups, do we need absolute zero crime rate etc. in Kashmir to ensure that India also tries to cool down in its tone with Pakistan?
There is no such thing as absolute peace and heavenly crime free zone which Pakistan can ensure in Kashmir...either accept Pakistan's efforts and truly walk down the road of understanding or let us declare that we shall remain enemies forever...The way i see it is that Pakistan is looked down upon by India and India is always lobbying against Pakistan even on trivial issues, this is what i genuinely feel over the past 10-15 years when i look at all the issues, conflicts and statements on the global stage.
Mind you this statement comes from a person who is quite open to the idea of this elusive peaceful coexistence which we all seek, however i say this much...death before disgrace!

Even a most prosperous state like US was hit by its own avenging son timothy in Oklahoma so please do not pretend that all of India's problems originate in Pakistan and have nothing to do with internal issues, there are all sorts of issues and people in every country...certainly seeing the TTP and their atrocities, i am convinced that there has to be peace between India and Pakistan for any long term stability in this region.

If we truly want stability then we should have had a much more mature relationship by now but that is not the case...India was all too willing to go to war at least twice in the recent decade and thank god that Pakistan had the nukes otherwise i am sure we would have seen just how mature even India is when dealing with Pakistan.

You may conclude that i am bashing India here but my point is very simple...despite being a large democracy having great stability and peaceful intent, India does indeed never miss a chance to threaten and ridicule Pakistan on all fronts...
The nuclear tests, the recent mobilization of our armies...all were in the backdrop of quite aggressive posture and all encompassing threats...
do you really not see that being the smaller country Pakistan can never ever take these threats lightly?

I am just trying to make a point that so far India has just been giving lip service when it comes to peace with Pakistan whereas Pakistan did indeed change its policy on Kashmir...so we shall dance this dance till the tune changes and for that India also needs to show some faith and do something concrete.

 

[irfan1173]

AoA
AgNoStIc MuSliM
If india violated simla accord then we are no different as lot of our own officers have also claimed that India prempted us by a week. Which means we were also ready to send troops but India sent first and not in response of India sending troops. Colonel Altaf (forgot his full name) an helicopter pilot himself has mentioned in an article that "India beat us by a week" or something to that affect.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AoA
AgNoStIc MuSliM
If india violated simla accord then we are no different as lot of our own officers have also claimed that India prempted us by a week.

Or does it mean that after we got wind of what the Indians were doing we attempted to beat them to the punch?

Speculation on what Pakistan may or may not have planned to do, it was the Indians who actually violated the accord.

Its like arguing that we expected the Indians to attack XYZ from Kargil, and therefore preempted that attack by occupying the heights - which are after all in disputed territory, and the precedent of violating Simla had already been set by the Indians.

 

[Hellfire]

I guess this argument can go on and on.
There are no real proofs to prove or disprove, only the motives are established and evident in the bitter animosity which the two countries have been engaged in.

The fact remains that India is the most hostile country to Pakistan.

The fact remains that India is cutting off the water supply of Pakistan in a systematic fashion and the weaker the Pakistan state becomes the stronger a position India will be in to dismiss any objections Pakistan has on this most critical flash point.
I am saying this keeping in mind the population of the two mighty neighbors, their demand for electricity and agricultural requirements which all of you people should understand...do take a moment to realize what it shall imply to deprive Pakistan of such a resource which actually is life itself...I see a terrible and most horrible war for resources and certainly India knows it as well...perhaps it also drives India to have a weak and destabilized neighbor which is too deep in the proverbial S H I T to actually have a coherent plan to take on India in a peaceful yet aggressive manner (backed by military/diplomatic pressure) and negotiate a proper settlement.

The fact remains that India and Pakistan are not over the issue of Kashmir even despite a sincere effort by Pakistan (against the wishes of many people) to curb down on Kashmir militant groups, do we need absolute zero crime rate etc. in Kashmir to ensure that India also tries to cool down in its tone with Pakistan?
There is no such thing as absolute peace and heavenly crime free zone which Pakistan can ensure in Kashmir...either accept Pakistan's efforts and truly walk down the road of understanding or let us declare that we shall remain enemies forever...The way i see it is that Pakistan is looked down upon by India and India is always lobbying against Pakistan even on trivial issues, this is what i genuinely feel over the past 10-15 years when i look at all the issues, conflicts and statements on the global stage.
Mind you this statement comes from a person who is quite open to the idea of this elusive peaceful coexistence which we all seek, however i say this much...death before disgrace!

Even a most prosperous state like US was hit by its own avenging son timothy in Oklahoma so please do not pretend that all of India's problems originate in Pakistan and have nothing to do with internal issues, there are all sorts of issues and people in every country...certainly seeing the TTP and their atrocities, i am convinced that there has to be peace between India and Pakistan for any long term stability in this region.

If we truly want stability then we should have had a much more mature relationship by now but that is not the case...India was all too willing to go to war at least twice in the recent decade and thank god that Pakistan had the nukes otherwise i am sure we would have seen just how mature even India is when dealing with Pakistan.

You may conclude that i am bashing India here but my point is very simple...despite being a large democracy having great stability and peaceful intent, India does indeed never miss a chance to threaten and ridicule Pakistan on all fronts...
The nuclear tests, the recent mobilization of our armies...all were in the backdrop of quite aggressive posture and all encompassing threats...
do you really not see that being the smaller country Pakistan can never ever take these threats lightly?

I am just trying to make a point that so far India has just been giving lip service when it comes to peace with Pakistan whereas Pakistan did indeed change its policy on Kashmir...so we shall dance this dance till the tune changes and for that India also needs to show some faith and do something concrete.

All Green

I agree. Its a never ending discussion, and I think the bilateral issues are being held hostage to national politics on both sides hence the inability to find a viable solution.

I think it takes two to tango. Where Pakistan has made a sincere effort (and here Musharraf gets the due credit) in working to reduce the number of cross border infiltration from own side, Indian attitude leaves a lot to be desired, and where India has made an effort, Pakistani attitude leaves the same, so in short, there is a seeming inability to address the issues with a view to find a viable solution, giving an impression that a selected few individuals/members of cockeyed schools of philosophy are holding the whole process to ransom for reasons which are far beyond logic today.

 

[Hellfire]

Ok then tell me who are those people who did n t done their sunat. . Postmortem of the dead bodies found in tribal reign of Pakistan. What are they doing there? Indian already makes laughing stoke of them self in Mumbai attacks. At the moment even US blaming ISI and army our government is dealing the saturation tactically. When the time is right we will show the you.

suggest exhume the bodies and send them across to India as "proof" and lets see what response you get.

also this is your contention and media speculation. as of till date, no GoP press issue has made a direct reference to Indian involvement in the said territory.

Circumcision, the presence or absence of the same does not signify a particular community.

In addition, your contention also has a drawback. Most of the members on this forum have used the logic of a muslim not targetting a mosque or fellow muslim as rationale at some time or the other, whereas the pattern of operations being done by these "Champions of Islam" has exactly targeted this segment mainly.

The recent explosion at Lahore serves to further highlight this fact, that the TTP under duress of success of PA offensive in Swat, has started targetting the common citizen of Pakistan.