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Why India is becoming a global darling and Pakistan getting irrelevant today

India is better than Pakistan in many indicators.
Indeed so. However not on all and these indicators often are unreliable when coming from this part of the world. "Sexing up facts" is accepted way of doing things in South Asia. Even as they are many indicators that you might allude to, on closer inspection will show marginal differance. In other words the differances are nominal and will carry little significience in the real world.

India's miserable conditions are better
Biggest pile of balloney. India has greater poverty, greater extreme poverty, greater homeless, greater lack of sanitation with millions pulling rickshaws like animals to earn bread. The word miserable would be offended if used for some of the inequity that prevails in ocean of injustice.

01-POD-may-day-IndiaInk-blog480.jpg


Link > https://defence.pk/threads/man-as-beast-india.402799/

empowered more common citizens to get justice equal to the elite
Please look at the image above. Is that empowering? This is not some cherrypicking example but at least 2 milllion in India are employed in this inhuman job. In Pakistan it was banned as on humantarian grounds back in 1949. Please read the thread (link above) where I have provided links to various reports.

economic opportunity
India has epic poverty levels which make Sub Saharan countries blush in pride.

Where India has done well is muzzling the religious zealots. In Pakistan every degenerate mullah has been turned into celebs. India has stood by secularism which has done it good. However the biggest differance is how India has sold itself to the outside world. India. A half naked, half starved, lacking any major historical heritage have sold themselves to the West as secular progressive country despite 25% of the country being vacant human bones.

Pakistan on the other hand has had the singular achievement of frigging itself at every turn. It is like it hired the devil as it's publicity agent. OBL caught in Pakistan. Burning American flags. Pakistan. Terror central. Pakistan., Mullah unlimited., I mean this country can't do anything to but keep scoring "own goals". Result perception has become reality.

So I am not blaming anybody but the Pakistani's.
 
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@Kaptaan one picture does not prove anything. I can show worse pics than that for anywhere - even some bunch of hobos in the streets of Atlanta or D.C.

India has the largest number of poor people by sheer population numbers. again, if you want to point to those and show that Pakistan and India are equal, that is your opinion, not mine. But the more general accepted, corroborated, confirmed and proved many times for many people in around USA(not necessarily for you) is that India - at present - is better placed than Pakistan.

But you did put some good valid points - that India has muzzled the fanatics, celebrated secularism and plurality, marketed itself well but you then flipped it saying "half naked, half starved, lacking historical heritage" - that is simply not true. Pakistan and India have a shared heritage. India owns and celebrates all of its heritage, Pakistan seems more confused and selects only some parts of it. (my opinion)
 
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one picture does not prove anything.
I know. Which is why I made a referance to "cherrypicking". However if you took the time to read the thread (I post the link again below) you will see it is repeated 2 million times. That is not cherrypicking or isolated cases but bloody industry.

Link > https://defence.pk/threads/man-as-beast-india.402799/

people in around USA
I know. I often talk to Yanks. Please read about Pakistan's genius in destroying it's image by being involved in terribly negative events like OBL. You know and I know OBL was America's bogeyman and any country caught within pissing distance of him would be shafted. Well Pakistan was caught with him in it's arms literally. So that did not do it any favours. Bad vibes then effect media and public perception.

Pakistan and India have a shared heritage.
No they don't. That is rubbish history your fed in USA. That would be like me relying on my neighbourhood mullah and his sermons on America. It would create a very distorted image of USA. Ditto Pakistan in USA.
 
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Always provide the link for the article



The Pakistani establishment is feeling the pressure after India has started engaging with the former’s immediate neighbours as well as with the US and other western countries.

Chabahar Port, Salma Dam, MTCR, US support—Pak has every reason to feel wary
The signing of the Chabahar Port pact with Iran, inauguration of the Friendship Dam in Afghanistan, reaching out to states like Switzerland and Mexico to win their backing for its bid to enter the Nuclear Suppliers Group and finally, engaging with Uncle Sam to get the green signal to enter the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) are significant tasks that Prime Minister Narendra Modi accomplished during his six-nation visits in May and June and the net result of this proactive diplomacy of New Delhi has made Islamabad wary.

Pakistan is worried mainly because it has failed to develop an identity beyond a client state—be it of the US in the past or China in the present.

Pakistan has not acted worked on a national development goal since 1947
As a nation where democracy could never find its roots firmly placed into the ground (only one civilian government has succeeded in completing its term in its 69-year-old history) and the army has always prevailed over everything else, Pakistan offers little utility in this age of an integrated world where advancements in trade, enterprise, technology, education, business and other positive ventures matter more than things that are military.

India, on the other hand, has prepared the ground since 1991 by liberalising its economic regime
India, which will also complete 69 years of independence in August this year, has scripted a completely contradictory story. The political stability over six decades and economic course correction 25 years ago have prepared the stage for India today to achieve its potentials as a knowledge-based and enterprising economy.

India and US have come together today not just because of strategic reasons but as democracies that thrive on development and welfare
The country’s vital interests have been aligned with the US today not just because of strategic considerations like anti-terrorism or balancing China but because the pathways of these two countries overlap. This is an era when the economic interests of the two democracies complement each other like never before.

As long as India was kept a caged tiger because of the faulty economic policies of its first-generation leaders, New Delhi and Washington could not come close to realise the potential of their bilateral relation as they have today. The two countries could not move beyond the issues of non-alignment, Pakistan or Kashmir.

Pak remained complacent over its military alliance with US of the Cold War era
Pakistan had taken the advantage of India’s decision to lock its own potential in the past. Harbouring the sole ambition of defeating India on every occasion, Pakistani rulers never cared beyond acting as a client state of the US which kept on feeding its hunger by means of military hardware.

While India made advancements in education, science, technology and IT, Pak kept its focus only on procuring military hardware
Since the army is an institution which is not trained to lead a nation’s true welfare, Pakistan never thought anything beyond war rhetoric against India. For the last seven decades or so, that country has only seen how the military and then terrorism have destroyed the prospects of democracy, something which has helped India to earn global respects today.

Just like the year 1991 saw PV Narasimha Rao’s leadership sow the seeds of a brighter future for India by embracing economic liberalisation, it also indicated at a bleak future of Pakistan through the end of the Cold War. It was precisely the Cold War which had kept Pakistan relevant in a bipolar world where the lines of distinction were very clear.

Today with Cold War being a thing of the past, US has no business backing an unproductive Pakistan
Today, with the Soviet Union a thing of the past and the Chinese been increasingly seen as a competitor by the US, Washington’s best bet lies in backing the (computer) software talents of India than the generals of Pakistan skilled in using (military) hardware. Wars and tanks do not matter in international relations today. What matters is trade and exchange of knowledge.

While PV Narasimha Rao gave India a positive leadership, Pakistan lacked enlightened brains that would show it the way
Pakistan is paying the price of its complacency of remaining under the US’s shadow all these years. The problem lied in its lack of an enlightened leadership.

The army just focused on demonising India and the possession of the nuclear arms made it doubly confident about neutralising the lead that India had since 1974. But it never paid heed to the nurturing and development of the softer diplomacy and on the contrary, ruined the prospects of nurturing its softer talents by imposing strict rules internally. Today India is sending mission to the outer space and is being considered a counterweight to China in the Asian theatre. What are Pakistan’s credentials apart from possessing a nuclear arsenal?

The result is clearly seen today. While India is marching ahead despite its problems that can always be democratically handled, Pakistan has found itself on a cul-de-sac because of unhealthy politico-economic practices since birth. Narendra Modi has just reaped the benefits as the leading citizen of a better-placed country.



@nair @proud_indian @Roybot @jbgt90 @Sergi @Water Car Engineer @dadeechi @kurup @Rain Man @kaykay @Abingdonboy @SR-91 @nang2 @Stephen Cohen @anant_s

@jbgt90 @ranjeet @4GTejasBVR @The_Showstopper @guest11 @ranjeet

@GURU DUTT
 
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@Kaptaan one picture does not prove anything. I can show worse pics than that for anywhere - even some bunch of hobos in the streets of Atlanta or D.C.

India has the largest number of poor people by sheer population numbers. again, if you want to point to those and show that Pakistan and India are equal, that is your opinion, not mine. But the more general accepted, corroborated, confirmed and proved many times for many people in around USA(not necessarily for you) is that India - at present - is better placed than Pakistan.

But you did put some good valid points - that India has muzzled the fanatics, celebrated secularism and plurality, marketed itself well but you then flipped it saying "half naked, half starved, lacking historical heritage" - that is simply not true. Pakistan and India have a shared heritage. India owns and celebrates all of its heritage, Pakistan seems more confused and selects only some parts of it. (my opinion)

You just need to look at the HDI indicators. Pakistan ranks below Nepal and Bangladesh and well below India.

Refer to my post here:

https://defence.pk/threads/cpec-a-game-changer.433801/page-6#post-8370628

There will be butthurt Pakistani members trying to overturn the mass of development data out there by cherrypicking.

Fact is Indians on average live longer, earn more, are less hungry, more educated and are putting more and more distance between themselves and Pakistanis each passing year in all of this (Pakistan HDI rank has stagnated in the last 5 years, Indias has moved up 6 ranks).

I mean Pakistan's literacy rate is actually falling according to their own govt data:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/886027/2013-14-report-literacy-rate-slips-nationwide-by-2/
 
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Here is the thing we know what we are doing. So why to keep throwing dirt and taking pot shot on someone weak? We Indians needs to start comparing with super powers but not China. India and China are developing countries with opposite political system. Unfair playing field same goes for Pakistan too. Small country than us. Miss guided etc...
 
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Pakistan was better then india from the 1940s right up until the 1990s

we beat india on most indictators from poverty to food security and still today we beat india on indicators like sanitation

Sorry to sound harsh (asking for forgiveness before even starting, what a Noble man I am :) ), but sanitation is one thing and country can't feed its people or grow her economy purely on sanitation. Where is Pakistan compared to India in Economic growth, Investments (FDI), Internal Business Expansion, etc, etc? Not even comparable.

The current work being done for CPEC would give Pakistan a lifeline to grow. But the real issue is, how could a country be run by people who don't have experience in running a country, but for the past 50+ years, they are too busy in toppling governments and derailing a forming system every couple of years (when they aren't directly ruling it)?

When Pakistan was created, it wasn't created for the military or for it to be under a constant military rule. It was created for it to be a democracy. Whatever happened to that idea.....???? If the civilians had been running the country, you would have gotten past Australia in GDP growth today and would be looking at the top 10. Sadly, 70 years were wasted and now the system is being shaped (what should've happened 50-60 years ago). The point is, a system has a place for everyone. The military has its own place, the Judiciary and Civilian Government has her places. Everything works well when a system functions with all of its components. Thinking Generals can fix the country and its economy is like thinking that a Car Mechanic can read a couple of books on Cardiology and can do a Cardio bypass operation.

Lack of a system is why there is lack of everything, from electricity, to growth to jobs, to international relations, to everything else. And please, don't come back and tell me "Pakistani politicians are corrupt" because the generals are right there at the same level with them. And second, the politicians are the same everywhere. India, China, Japan, its no different. The only difference is, those politicians actually care about the country and get stuff done too like how CPEC is being done right now. Somehow, the credit will be given to the military for it, instead of who started it, visualized it and brought in the investments. Just like how right now, the Civilian government is being blamed for a Military designed and run foreign policy!! Go figure. Let me know if you STILL have questions on Pakistan's comparison to India and why Pakistan isn't growing!
 
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I don't know about the other folks, to the Turkish folks Pak is always a Kardesh Ulke (brotherly country)..
I think China has something like "iron brother" describing Pak..

Do you really need western love with >70% divorce rate and >50% babies born out of wedlock???

True worth of a friend is found during testing times. Turkey and China have never let Pakistan down.
 
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Must we go through this again and again. @Kaptaan Yes there is poverty in India but it is decreasing.

Maternal mortality rate, 2015

Pakistan - 178
India - 174

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.STA.MMRT

Infant mortality rate, 2015

Pakistan - 66
India - 39

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.IMRT.IN

Under 5 mortality rate, 2015

Pakistan - 81
India - 48

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.DYN.MORT

Life expectancy, 2015

Pakistan - 65
India - 67

Literacy rate, 2015

Pakistan - 58% down from 60% in 2012-13
India - 78.5% up from 74% in 2011.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/897995/education-woes-pakistan-misses-un-target-with-58-literacy-rate/

http://www.newindianexpress.com/edu...In-Urban-Survey/2015/06/30/article2895160.ece

Out of school children, 2014

Pakistan - 9.4 million out 29 million school age children, 32%.
India - 11.9 million out of 195 million school age children, 6%.

http://www.unicef.org/education/files/SouthAsia_OOSCI_Study__Executive_Summary_26Jan_14Final.pdf
 
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Facts:
1. This discussion should not be ( as always ) Ind VS Pak but opinion of rest of the neutral world. No allied opinions
Still I will make few comparing points before going to another point
-Both countries have problems
- Both are developing countries
And thats end of similarities.

Big difference
- India larger population meaning larger consumer economy
- Most of the states in India are stable. Good for business.
- Civilian gov with dev focous and not being milletry state in any duration
- Independant forgine policy

I dont have to make such points for Pak.

Every country want to grow and in globalisation period it means trade and commerece. Exact reason of China's rise

USA,Russia and China have more than trade benifits in investing India & Pak so they dont count. Business do but not the motive

For rest of neutral world,
What will be the best trade and business option ???
Answer is India.

What Pak need is look Pass India. Right now China's economy corridor is best option and opportunity to ride on. But dont just remain China centric devlope your own trade and bussiness using new silk road.

One sure way to know if your country is doing well is "reverse brain drain"

My good wishes for Pak

Sorry for spell mistakes my auto correct isnt behaving properly
 
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I saw lot of Pakistani channels are saying that because of CPAC all world is against Pakistan. Still they don't understand that this is because of India's economic potential. In India we are adding one CPAK every year FDI(55 billion this year)
 
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Pakistan was better then india from the 1940s right up until the 1990s

we beat india on most indictators from poverty to food security and still today we beat india on indicators like sanitation

india is steeped in poverty and a unacceptably large population indulge in practices such as open defecation, just to name a few of indias enormous problems

Pakistan has had a tough time with this war o terror nonsense mixed with poor politicians but we are today in touching distance of something special of universal power availability, we will soon enter a decade of high growth, a number of major infrastructure projects will be completed

as opposed to a india with an enormous poverty stricken population Pakistan is much better placed to take advantage of its growth and surge pass india on most indicators

There is never a end to the race, it is just ongoing and Pakistan is getting ready to start running.

India has failed to deal with us when we were in turmoil just wait until we hit major growth in the coming years
well you were ahead cause then you had full support of USA and west cause you were there frontline state against USSR obut in imd 1960s you lots that innitiative when ayub khand decided to shift gears too eraly from social welfare state to a secuity state and from there your down fall statred

as after 1964 war when USA dint oblige ayub khan and bhutto they went to USSR to get a cease fire and signed shamefull tashkent declaration same USSR which also set gave pakistan its first steel mill

but then ZAB wanted to the leader of muslim world and wanted to creat the third axis hence relations were never like before with USA or USSR as both saw pakistan with suspission

but in 1980s deu USSR afghan war you got the second push/love afair with USA and west this time you milked it for getting the best weapons and were sucessfull covertly and were able to make "atom bomb" with USA and west looking the other way

but after 9/11 and later kargil misadventure you lost USA supprot and trust altogether

so it was not india or USA why pakistan could not grow as a modern progressive nation and instead of focussing its effort on making pakistan strong internally with support of USA and west pakistan used that power to antagonise india so to get kashmri only now the results are coming out

rest you can speculate yourself
 
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I am sick and tired of posters on PDF not having the common courtesy or honesty to provide links to the crap that they post here. Is this garbage product of your mind or sourced frrom some other third rate medium most likely Indian.

Accordingly I am giving you negative rating for failing to provide link.

@waz


How so? It is amazing how something peddled again and again ends up being taken as normative. I vehemently disagree that India is better than Pakistan. Both are in pretty miserable condition.

Here is your better "India" > https://defence.pk/threads/man-as-beast-india.402799/

http://idrw.org/india-becoming-global-darling-pakistan-getting-irrelevant-today/

Always provide the link for the article
http://idrw.org/india-becoming-global-darling-pakistan-getting-irrelevant-today/
 
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