Why French Rafale Fighters and Meteor Missiles Can’t Solve India’s Problem with China’s Air Force

[volatile]

endup doing the marketing for Lockheed martin/Raytheon :

Oh my !! LM/Ratheon must be jumping when they came to know it was flanker kill ,I can imaging the difficulty level for US while discussing the matter ,on one hand they will be delighted a Flanker top of the line Russian jet is down by nimble F16 on other hand Indians crying and condolences

 

[IblinI]

 

[Ali_Baba]

The problem India has, is that China's tech level has eclipsed Frances in the Air domain, and this reflected in the J20, J10C and J16/J15 series of aircraft.

China can also invest more money into R&D to keep its J-series top of the line than France can for the Rafale, which means that the Rafale will not "age well" compared to the J-Series over its lifespan. The Rafale is a dead end for use against China..

A poor tactical procurement by the IAF. India would have been better off purchasing the F15 series, where the F15QA eclipses the Rafale already and Boeing will be able to outpace France for the development of subsystems for the F15. It was India's only chance to procure a platform that could "keep" pace with China ...

 

[Figaro]

The problem India has, is that China's tech level has eclipsed Frances in the Air domain, and this reflected in the J20, J10C and J16/J15 series of aircraft.

China can also invest more money into R&D to keep its J-series top of the line than France can for the Rafale, which means that the Rafale will not "age well" compared to the J-Series over its lifespan. The Rafale is a dead end for use against China..

A poor tactical procurement by the IAF. India would have been better off purchasing the F15 series, where the F15QA eclipses the Rafale already and Boeing will be able to outpace France for the development of subsystems for the F15. It was India's only chance to procure a platform that could "keep" pace with China ...

The Rafael or any upgraded F-15 would not help against the J-20 ... there is a generational divide here. What India really needed to do was to remain in the however flawed HAL-FGFA program so that way at least there would be a combat aircraft that could at least in theory seriously challenge the J-20. As a consequence, 2 years after India left the program, they have no aircraft to challenge the J-20 and probably won't have any in the next couple years either.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Thing of beauty!

 

[LeGenD]

The Rafael or any upgraded F-15 would not help against the J-20 ... there is a generational divide here. What India really needed to do was to remain in the however flawed HAL-FGFA program so that way at least there would be a combat aircraft that could at least in theory seriously challenge the J-20. As a consequence, 2 years after India left the program, they have no aircraft to challenge the J-20 and probably won't have any in the next couple years either.

And how would you know?

Generation gap make sense in American terms (comparing F-22A Raptor vs. F-15SE or any other 4th generation combat aircraft). The so-called 4.5th generation is also 4th generation in comparison to American 5th generation design.

Russian Su-57 - although a major leap in Sukhoi - is 4th generation in comparison to American 5th generation designs according to those in the knowhow and technicalities. But it is touted as 5th generation for propaganda purpose; it is 4.5th generation to be accurate.

J-20 - a marvel of engineering no doubt - is not on an F-22A clone either in spite of being called 5th generation; vastly different design parameters and internal components. J-20 is a better design than Su-57 nevetheless; a blend of F-35 and Sukhoi to be accurate.

Chinese generations are different from American generations. J-20 is 4th generation in Chinese terms.

The author is correct about F-15EX being on another level in comparison to Rafale F3R: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/f-15ex-at-a-glance.653440/

F-15EX contain American 5th generation avionics including the most powerful radar system in a combat aircraft, LO class frame and engine with the added caveat that its (platform-exclusive) state-of-the-art EW system make it VLO in theory. An interesting combination of parameters - the first of its kind.

How F-15EX be ranked?

F-22A; F-35 variants; F-15EX; developed in fulfillment of the emerging MOSIAC warfare doctrine of USAF and USN in combination.

When it comes to comparing jets, there are 50 shades of grey in them.

 

[Hindustani78]

Is there a dedicated EW variant of Rafale like EA-18G Growler?

First of all, Indian Air Force used Indian Defense Industries Produced Aircrafts.

Indian Air Force - New Prototype Rayala are advanced Aircraft and even better than the French Defense Industries - Dassault Aircrafts Produced Rafale.

Indian Experts are in the phase to Deploy Indian Air Force - New Prototype Rayala !!!!

J-10C and J-20 are the trump card. China does not use them against Rafale.

If i am not wrong !!! Chinese Air Force J-10's are bombers !!!

Rafale's enemies are J-11 and Su-35. If J-11 and SU-35 are not effective, China will order Su-57 from Russia and receive TOT.

Indian Air Force - New Prototype Rayala will be engaging J-11 or Cy-35 thats Classified !!!!

You are saying that Chinese Military has already deployed Chinese Fifth Generation Aircraft and will even deploy Rus Federation Fifth Generation Aircraft namely Cy-57.

Are Rus Federation Fifth Generation Aircraft namely Cy-57 coming with Cy-500 Anti Aircraft Batteries or the Chinese Military have integrated Rus Federation Fifth Generation Aircraft namely Cy-57 on the Chinese Ly-80 or more upgraded Anti Aircraft Batteries !!!!

Be careful about what yanks are telling you. You were under the impression that F16s will not be used on your sorry arse, came 27th Feb, endup doing the marketing for Lockheed martin/Raytheon :


View attachment 644829

First of all, Indian Armed Forces Central Command Headquarters are well aware about the User End Agreements Violations talks from the U.S Military Command.

Indian Armed Forces - Military Tribunal - Apex Court are looking is the Supplier of these American Equipment to Pakistan Air Force are Polish Air Force; German Air Force or Taiwan Air Force. Was there Any Transfer of Technology of this Equipment done legally or was this Technology was stolen from United States of America !!!!

Snow Den Episode is infront of the Allied Nations and even of the Assange involving Sweden too !!!!

Oh my !! LM/Ratheon must be jumping when they came to know it was flanker kill ,I can imaging the difficulty level for US while discussing the matter ,on one hand they will be delighted a Flanker top of the line Russian jet is down by nimble F16 on other hand Indians crying and condolences

I think you are talking about Balaad e Shaam; Rus Federation Cy-24 was shot down by Türk Hava Kuvvetleri, THK-16 on 24 November 2015

The Rafael or any upgraded F-15 would not help against the J-20 ... there is a generational divide here. What India really needed to do was to remain in the however flawed HAL-FGFA program so that way at least there would be a combat aircraft that could at least in theory seriously challenge the J-20. As a consequence, 2 years after India left the program, they have no aircraft to challenge the J-20 and probably won't have any in the next couple years either.

Chinese Air Force has not deployed J-20 against the Saudi Air Force - Taifoon Aircraft !!!! Reports are there that Saudi Air Force has upgraded Taifoon Aircraft which is 4.5 Generation !!!!

Request seems to have send by the Iranian Air Force for the Deployment of Chinese Fighter Aircrafts which the Rus Federation Air Force has disliked alot !!!!

International Air Force is consist of Many Countries which have been working against Allied Nations Air Force namely Indian Air Force; Saudi Air Force; Egyptian Air Force; Arab Emirate Air Force; Qatar Air Force; Omani Air Force; Turkish Air Force; Malaysian Air Force; Indonesian Air Force and Bangladesh Air Force.

Main Frames are good but what about actual combat ???

Indian Air Force - Maruts; the Bridegroom are prepared with Swords !!!!

The problem India has, is that China's tech level has eclipsed Frances in the Air domain, and this reflected in the J20, J10C and J16/J15 series of aircraft.

Chinese Aircraft Defense Industries and Pakistan Aircraft Defense Industries has become the Technology Providers for French; Germans; Swedish; Polish etc.

China can also invest more money into R&D to keep its J-series top of the line than France can for the Rafale, which means that the Rafale will not "age well" compared to the J-Series over its lifespan. The Rafale is a dead end for use against China..

French Aircraft Engineers are being assisted by the Chinese Aircraft Engineers and Pakistan Aircraft Engineers. Mongols are having Centuries old Relations with the Crusaders !!!!

A poor tactical procurement by the IAF.

International Air Force Squadrons all are having the same Technology !!!! Same Avionics and Same Satellites and even the Anti Aircraft Batteries are the same !!!! Knocking down one seems knocking down all !!!! Allied Nations Air Force Squadrons are different !!! Full of Prototypes with different Technology and Technics !!!

Welcome to Hindu Civilisation !!!!

India would have been better off purchasing the F15 series, where the F15QA eclipses the Rafale already and Boeing will be able to outpace France for the development of subsystems for the F15. It was India's only chance to procure a platform that could "keep" pace with China ...

Reports are there that Pakistan Military Command has send Proposals to United States of America for buying upgraded version of Aircrafts to Pakistan similar agreement like with Taiwan !!!!

Indian Air Force will go for Indian Aircrafts !!!!

Taiwanese Air Force do have American Aircrafts !!!

 

[Taimoor Khan]

First of all, Indian Armed Forces Central Command Headquarters are well aware about the User End Agreements Violations talks from the U.S Military Command.

Indian Armed Forces - Military Tribunal - Apex Court are looking is the Supplier of these American Equipment to Pakistan Air Force are Polish Air Force; German Air Force or Taiwan Air Force. Was there Any Transfer of Technology of this Equipment done legally or was this Technology was stolen from United States of America !!!!

Snow Den Episode is infront of the Allied Nations and even of the Assange involving Sweden too !!!!

End user agreement is between Pakistan and America, and if both parties are happy with it, that is what matter. Third parties do not matter.

It was made clear, eight years ago, at the highest level of PAF, by chief himself that all assets will be used against any threat. If Indian establishment didn't get the memo, then its really a sorry state of the affairs.

 

[jk007]

A poor tactical procurement by the IAF. India would have been better off purchasing the F15 series, where the F15QA eclipses the Rafale already and Boeing will be able to outpace France for the development of subsystems for the F15. It was India's only chance to procure a platform that could "keep" pace with China ...

India has been indulging the chinese.....India has been very careful not to anger the chinese....hence, India did not purchase any offensive weapons from USA. The latest standoff changed everything.

I think (I hope) it is a matter of time before India purchases F-35 or F-15EX. There is no other choice for India.

Either way, the days of purchasing Russian equipment (maintenance nightmares) are over (I hope). It is going to be US/French/Israeli or local products for IAF soon.

 

[BATMAN]

If China airforce was India's problem, they didn't needed to wait for 9 radar locks from jF-17 on 27th February.
Modi is on record saying, if he had Rafale he might have won from Pakistan airforce.
Neither there's any air skirmish between India and China.

 

[LeGenD]

India has been indulging the chinese.....India has been very careful not to anger the chinese....hence, India did not purchase any offensive weapons from USA. The latest standoff changed everything.

I think (I hope) it is a matter of time before India purchases F-35 or F-15EX. There is no other choice for India.

Either way, the days of purchasing Russian equipment (maintenance nightmares) are over (I hope). It is going to be US/French/Israeli or local products for IAF soon.

India was offered F-21 but they did not consider it.

India is looking forward to expanding its inventory of Russian fighter aircraft and updating some older ones.

India is also prioritizing domestic solutions.

F-15EX and F-35 variants are unlikely because of Russian dimension.

From Indian standpoint, ditching Russia is not in line with its long-term interests.

 

[jk007]

India was offered F-21 but they did not consider it.


F-15EX and F-35 variants are unlikely because of Russian dimension.

From Indian standpoint, ditching Russia is not in line with its long-term interests.

Russia guarantees veto in UN. USA will not guarantee veto in UN. Hence, India must not ditch Russia.

But I do believe, that the latest actions by China, have given more problems to Indian leaders. Status Quo [indulging china with trade deficits; purchasing Russian weapons with the intention that they will be used only against Pak etc etc] will no longer work.

My 0.00002 cents:
a) India can not spend a lot on defence at the cost of other sectors.
b) So, India is left with no option other than to work with US + Australia + Japan etc.
c) India will keep Russia happy by other means, but (my opinion) India will not buy any more new weapons from Russia for IAF.

 

[The Maverick]

India was offered F-21 but they did not consider it.

India is looking forward to expanding its inventory of Russian fighter aircraft and updating some older ones.

India is also prioritizing domestic solutions.

F-15EX and F-35 variants are unlikely because of Russian dimension.

From Indian standpoint, ditching Russia is not in line with its long-term interests.

India will not Ditch Russia.
We have massive interest to keep them on board
But their is a serious desire to go looking for wester technology for 2 decades now

Russia offered engines and radars for TEJAS = India went Usa /Israel
Russia offered MIG35 MMRCA = India went rafale
Russia offered SU57 partnership = India declined came out of programme.

Indian 5th gneration stop gap solution will be either F35 or a improved mk2 version SU57 but it wil be only 40 planes

THE REAL FOCUS WILL be on AMCA india,s own 5th gen fighter

 

[LeGenD]

India will not Ditch Russia.
We have massive interest to keep them on board
But their is a serious desire to go looking for wester technology for 2 decades now

Russia offered engines and radars for TEJAS = India went Usa /Israel
Russia offered MIG35 MMRCA = India went rafale
Russia offered SU57 partnership = India declined came out of programme.

Indian 5th gneration stop gap solution will be either F35 or a improved mk2 version SU57 but it wil be only 40 planes

THE REAL FOCUS WILL be on AMCA india,s own 5th gen fighter

F-35 is not coming unless India ditch S-400 systems. This is American policy now.

India can work with Russia to develop Su-57 further.

 

[jk007]

F-35 is not coming unless India ditch S-400 systems. This is American policy now.

India can work with Russia to develop Su-57 further.

After the latest chinese actions, I believe, India made a mistake by purchasing S-400s. If USA does not sell F-35 due to S-400, then it will be a loss to India.