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Why Erdogan called for updating Islam

Big Tank

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Public remarks by Turkey’s powerful President Recep Tayyip Erdogan have often raised eyebrows in the West in recent years. However, in a March 8 speech on International Women's Day, Erdogan broke this pattern and said something that could only be music to liberal ears: He condemned misogynist clerics who degrade women, and even said, “Islam must be updated."

The speech was made to hundreds of Turkish women from various walks of life who were invited to the presidential complex in Ankara for International Women's Day. In his address to the women, Erdogan implicitly referred to a few ultraconservative scholars in Turkey who recently outraged society by defending misogynist practices such as wife beating. "Recently, some people claiming to be clerics issued statements contradicting religion,” Erdogan said. “They have no place in our times. They don't realize how Islam needs to be updated and is updated accordingly. You can't apply the practices applied 15 centuries ago today. Islam changes and adapts to the conditions of different ages. This is the beauty of Islam.”

This progressive take on religion, especially the very suggestion that “Islam needs to be updated,” came as a cold shower to some of the typically pro-Erdogan commentators. On social media, many of them stood silent, whereas others offered mild criticism, repeating the usual mantra that “Islam is perfect,” it needs no “update” and it is only Muslims who need to improve themselves by living up to Islam’s fixed commandments.

A day later, Erdogan refined his initial remark about updating Islam and said he seeks no "reform in religion.” ("Reform” is a dirty word in conservative parlance.) “Our holy Quran has and will always have words to say, its commandments will never change,” Erdogan affirmed. However, he added, “The independent reasoning derived from the Quran” — in other words many clauses in classic jurisprudence would “surely change according to the time, the conditions and the possibilities.”

Why has Erdogan taken this not-so-conservative position on Islam? And what does it mean for the state of affairs in Turkey?

First, we need to recall the background of Erdogan’s remarks. In the past few years, Turkey’s religious conservatives have found a level of free speech that they have not seen in a century. While free speech overall has dramatically declined in Turkey, as noted by Freedom House, this decline has affected only the anti-Erdogan camp. While secularists in the state, media and civil society have been largely swept aside, the vacuum was filled by religious conservatives and Islamists of various kinds, who now both had the self-confidence to speak their minds, and also influential media forums to use such as state TV.

Some of these newly empowered conservatives were people with deeply archaic understandings of Islam. As a result, it became common for Turks to hear one dreadful “fatwa” (religious opinion) after another. One scholar suggested that pregnant women should not freely walk around, for example, while another threatened “women who wear pants” with hellfire.

Most recently, Nurettin Yildiz, a traditional scholar and a columnist for the Islamist Milli Gazete, sparked even more outrage by declaring that it is permissible in Islam for children of the age of 6 to get married. He defended wife beating as well, even suggesting that women who are beaten by their husbands should be “grateful” for this blessing.

Here is the key point: These terrible views were shocking to Turkey’s secularists, almost all of whom are against Erdogan. But they were also shocking to most moderate religious conservatives, many of whom vote for Erdogan.

This is the case, because as polls show, hard-core Islamists who would like to see a Sharia-based Turkey — one like Saudi Arabia, where sexes are segregated and adulterers are stoned — make up a small minority in Turkey. As Pew Research polls have shown, those Turks who wish to see Sharia as “the law of the land” make up some 12% of the whole population, whereas the same number is 84% in Pakistan and 74% in Egypt. To the question of whether sons and daughters should have equal inheritance rights, an impressive 88% of Turks say “yes,” where the same number is only 53% in Pakistan and 26% in Egypt.

In other words, Turkey’s 150-year-long Westernization that goes back to the late Ottoman Empire, and the century-long experience of the secular republic, has ingrained certain modern values in society, even in the more conservative camp.

No wonder Yildiz’s shocking statements on wife beating and child marriage have been strongly criticized by commentators in the conservative, and pro-Erdogan, media as well — in newspapers such as Sabah or Yeni Safak. Most recently, Devlet Bahceli, the leader of the Nationalist Action Party and a key Erdogan ally, slammed Yildiz as a “pervert” for saying men and women should not get on the same elevator.

Erdogan’s reaction to “clerics who degrade women” should be seen in light of this social context. It should also remind us that Erdogan, at the end of the day, is a populist politician and not a doctrinaire cleric. He follows social trends carefully, with regular polls he reportedly gets conducted, and does his best to capture the zeitgeist. No wonder his political narrative is based on not a rigid Islamism that would have limited appeal, but an Islam-infused nationalism that appeals to the majority of Turkish society. (The main political trait in Turkish society has always been nationalism more than anything else.)

Whatever his political reasons are, Erdogan’s support for the idea that “Islam needs updating” will come as a breath of fresh air for Turkey’s modernist theologians, who have lately been concerned with the rise of the ultraconservative scholars, some of whom also have been called "Salafi.” In a country where the president’s words are definitive almost on everything, Erdogan’s green light for new interpretations of Islam will be helpful.

However, there is also a downside: the very definitiveness of the president — and, by extension, the state — over religion. Turkey has always been a very statist country where the government has controlled religion and has left very little room for civil society. Erdogan’s attempt to define “the right Islam” will only deepen this state-centric culture.

A modernist theologian laid this out well in a newspaper column. The main problem in Turkey's religious sphere, the theologian said, is that “different groups are willing to have their own interpretation of religion embraced by the state, and imposed on society.” And there is little hope, he added, that this vicious cycle will be broken in the near future.



Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...-called-for-updating-islam.html#ixzz5AQ2bjDCm
 
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It's not so much updating of Islam as updating the interpretation of Islam. As it is the interpretation of Islam done in formative centuries by mortal humans has been fossilized. If they [previous generations of mortals] could do it so can the present generation. This is exactly what Pakistan's ideologue Sir Allama Iqbal asked for in "Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam".

https://archive.org/details/cover_201501
 
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Interstingly well observed article, but misses the gist in Erdoğan's remark.

He does not put distance to some ''scholars' in Turkey, but the ones from MB or other foreign ones. As the article mentiones, Turkish society has its unique understanding of Islam, therefore those ''fatwas'' are new to the modern daily social life of Turks, therefore considered absurd ones and high likely imported from MB or other fundamentalists in ''backwarded'' countries.
 
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It's not so much updating of Islam as updating the interpretation of Islam. As it is the interpretation of Islam done in formative centuries by mortal humans has been fossilized. If they [previous generations of mortals] could do it so can the present generation. This is exactly what Pakistan's ideologue Sir Allama Iqbal asked for in "Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam".

https://archive.org/details/cover_201501
This is not the real Allama Iqbal. This is Sir Iqbal. If you want Allama Iqbal, you need to go to his Urdu and Dari poetry...
Also another good work in English by another Pakistani ideologue, Muhammad Asad (the former director of the Dept of Islamic Reconstruction), is his "The Principles of State and Government in Islam". https://archive.org/details/ThePrinciplesOfStateAndGovernmentInIslam
 
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This is not the real Allama Iqbal.
That is your interpretation. I disagree. Islam to the likes of you is anything anti western and that licks the Saudis. Or as I described in another thread -

Anything against what might be considered western mixed with everything that might be considered Saudia Arabian. Mix the two and the cocktail is 'Pakistani Islam'.
I think the aetiology behind this is simple. The countries that
imported from MB or other fundamentalists in ''backwarded'' countries.
mentions as "backwarded" were all taken over and made slaves of the west. Our ancestors only three generations past were humiliated and made slaves by British masters or other Europeans and today the victimhood is being played out in the successor generations of these slaves. This is even more apparent in UK where the descendants of these slaves subjected to racism and living in inner city ghettos feel a anger of their historical and present humiliation. this then is expressed through a reaction that is masked as religion. This is the Islam to them. A angry, anti western politcal movement going as a religion.

This reactionery Islam is absent in countries that were successful in repelling the west like Turkey etc.

Look below. what do you see?

A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L ...

  1. Western imperial alphabet that will corrode Muslim culture
  2. Just plain alphabet.
If you see (1) then you are carrying this historical victim complex. If you see (2) then you either never had that victim complex or have overcome it and moved forward.
 
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That is your interpretation. I disagree. Islam to the likes of you is anything anti western and that licks the Saudis. Or as I described in another thread -

I think the aetiology behind this is simple. The countries thatmentions as "backwarded" were all taken over and made slaves of the west. Our ancestors only three generations past were humiliated and made slaves by British masters or other Europeans and today the victimhood is being played out in the successor generations of these slaves. This is even more apparent in UK where the descendants of these slaves subjected to racism and living in inner city ghettos feel a anger of their historical and present humiliation. this then is expressed through a reaction that is masked as religion. This is the Islam to them. A angry, anti western politcal movement going as a religion.

This reactionery Islam is absent in countries that were successful in repelling the west like Turkey etc.

Look below. what do you see?

A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L ...

  1. Western imperial alphabet that will corrode Muslim culture
  2. Just plain alphabet.
If you see (1) then you are carrying this historical victim complex. If you see (2) then you either never had that victim complex or have overcome it and moved forward.
And likewise what you write is your interpretation...(remember what I told you about ad hominems? They don't support ones argument...) there was an iqbal for his western audience and an iqbal for his compatriots...care to guess which is which...
If you read his urdu and dari literature, it is very different to his English works. There was a duality in Iqbal...
 
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I don't like his anti democratic tendencies, but Gosh Darn I respect as the only progressive Muslim leader.

I grew up Muslim and the indoctrination that I got said that Islam has stayed exactly the same for 1400 years.
This is so far from the truth. In reality, there have been Imams and leaders who have changed how Islam is practiced. And this has been going on for 1400 years, so there is no problem with "updating" Islam, it needs to be updated and it has been updated for 1400 years, as the Islam we practice is actually quite different from the Islam of the Prophet and that is not a bad things.
 
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sorry i am late i have an idea to update system in the name of islam..

why not do it like this way:

1. Promote democracy simillar to sharia.. And spread this news Globly, people should understand that muslims see democracy as sharia.. And announce the specific name to distinguish other democratic world from democratic muslim world with the name "sharia democracy".

2. After getting popularity for the specific word "sharia democracy".. Tell the world that we are going to reform sharia democracy.. In which we will no longer prefer the "interest rate". Our banks will only work on behalf of profit and loss in any business. And start working on it.

Then take action against pornoghraphy and further against etc etc accroding to islam.. In the end you will have real sharia system... economically,politically, spritually, morally. Strategically,scientifically.

@Kaptaan @Big Tank
 
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Erdogan said. “They have no place in our times. They don't realize how Islam needs to be updated and is updated accordingly. You can't apply the practices applied 15 centuries ago today" .
 
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Two things:

1. Why do people who right stuff like this assume the only valid implementation of shariah is the Saudi version?

2. People forget the Ottomans implemented shariah. This is not new to Turkey and it looked nothing like the Saudis, Taliban or Iran.

It's not so much updating of Islam as updating the interpretation of Islam. As it is the interpretation of Islam done in formative centuries by mortal humans has been fossilized. If they [previous generations of mortals] could do it so can the present generation. This is exactly what Pakistan's ideologue Sir Allama Iqbal asked for in "Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam".

https://archive.org/details/cover_201501

100% agree. This is a process we have lost since we became less academic and reasoned in our approach to Islam.

Many of today's so called scholars would baulk at the way scholars of the past challenged established thought.
 
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That is your interpretation. I disagree. Islam to the likes of you is anything anti western and that licks the Saudis. Or as I described in another thread -

I think the aetiology behind this is simple. The countries thatmentions as "backwarded" were all taken over and made slaves of the west. Our ancestors only three generations past were humiliated and made slaves by British masters or other Europeans and today the victimhood is being played out in the successor generations of these slaves. This is even more apparent in UK where the descendants of these slaves subjected to racism and living in inner city ghettos feel a anger of their historical and present humiliation. this then is expressed through a reaction that is masked as religion. This is the Islam to them. A angry, anti western politcal movement going as a religion.

This reactionery Islam is absent in countries that were successful in repelling the west like Turkey etc.

Look below. what do you see?

A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L ...

  1. Western imperial alphabet that will corrode Muslim culture
  2. Just plain alphabet.
If you see (1) then you are carrying this historical victim complex. If you see (2) then you either never had that victim complex or have overcome it and moved forward.

I agree, the problem in Pakistan is that there is no control or oversight on who is interpreting Islam, so basically anyone can build a masjid and madrassa and start preaching his version of Islam and people will just believe and follow him. No wonder there are so many different versions of Islamic sects in Pakistan, each hating the other and another reason that we have people brainwashed to join TTP.
 
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Pakistan k Muslims ko ik firka bananay k leia kaam karna chiye ..mulq say sub firkay khatam kar k ik firka banaya jai jo serf Muslim ho or Islam ke main batain chor kar wo sub badla ja sakta hai jo duniyawi Zindagi say jora hai per shayed badalna koi chahta nahe
 
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