What's new

Why don't more Muslims speak out against the wanton destruction of Mecca's

The simple answer is: Muslims are not sure enough of themselves to even have a word against anything.
The fear of offending the barbaric clergy and being labelled apostates due to their own inability to defend their viewpoint leaves them in a position of bowing their heads to these maniacs.

I see lot of fearless mods not missing out on a single occasion... but the reason, why all the objection is of no effect, because it has no technical grounds... objection driven with pure hate cannot not win an argument.
 
.
I just find it highly amusing that we are the ones doing all of these expansions out of OUR OWN pockets for THEIR benefits and end up being attacked for it.
It's not like the Saudis are being selfless here, more like they are expanding the Disney World amusement park so they can collect even larger profits.
 
.
I see lot of fearless mods not missing out on a single occasion... but the reason, why all the objection is of no effect, because it has no technical grounds... objection driven with pure hate cannot not win an argument.

by all means.. Bring some technical grounds for me to tear them down then...if we mods have failed to meet your high standards.
 
.
Will you attempt to surmise why the viewpoint can't be defended?
Lack of actually delving into the text...
Of challenging existing research based on fear of not knowing enough(even though that existing research on religion also started somewhere).
But most of all, for the majority.. its handing over the crux of their understanding to be defined by what is the equivalent of a Clerk in a judicial setup.. rather than actual judges.
A Mufti's standing is that of a paralegal(not precisely, but I hope you get the drift) in a law firm..
An Alim was the actual level of leadership..

Yet today, you have Mufti's being considered Alims and providing religious leadership.
And while most people would have issue today if a Paralegal ends up heading the supreme court.. yet have no issue accepting a Mufti's interpretation as the supreme law.
Don't you get it, Oscar? You've accepted that right and wrong are things that can exist only in one frame of view outlined by a text. You've eliminated the idea that a value system can stand separately from the Koran, in the heart, as the Mutazilites of old advocated before tyrants suppressed them. If you can build on that, you can then confront and challenge the religious crazies out there.

Have you ever seen Akira Kurosawa's film Rashomon?
 
.
by all means.. Bring some technical grounds for me to tear them down then...if we mods have failed to meet your high standards.

No need to get out of context... it is you who have set the motion, it is you who need to prove.

I have no objection to the expansion project and i only see base less propaganda from certain quarters... as a malafied intent.

Both holy mosques have been constructed many times in past and has always been shown on PTV and praised by all, never condemned.. what the mind set has been changed with the new century?

BTW.. next time when i attempt to tear down any Indian claim that let it happen too.
 
.
Why it’s so hard for some people here to understand that destruction of the historical places is not necessary for the expansion of the mosque……..when there is a will there is a way………..have not other places already been included in the mosque during previous expansions..........mount Al-Safa and Al-Marwa???............here we just want the preservation of sites…………be it outside or inside the mosque…………if a consensus approach via discussing the issue with other Islamic countries to deal the matter has ever been applied by the Saudi Govt. than a permanent solution of this matter has long been sought out.
 
. .
One thing which always confuse me is on one hand Muslims believe that God has taken responsibility to Protect Quran, holy place of Macca & Madina but still they have to pass the laws or do protests to remind God his promise. So, either

1. They don't believe in God's promise or
2. God has no control what's happening in Macca & Madina or
3. If they believe that God has total control than surely this and past expansions will be as per His wish but still Muslims prefer their wish over God's will

any good Muslim there to help me out to solve this confusion?
 
.
One thing which always confuse me is on one hand Muslims believe that God has taken responsibility to Protect Quran, holy place of Macca & Madina but still they have to pass the laws or do protests to remind God his promise. So, either

1. They don't believe in God's promise or
2. God has no control what's happening in Macca & Madina or
3. If they believe that God has total control than surely this and past expansions will be as per His wish but still Muslims prefer their wish over God's will

any good Muslim there to help me out to solve this confusion?

I am not 100% sure, but I don't know of any aiyah or hadith where its said that God will protect Mecca and Madina. In fact, Ka'ba was destroyed or partially destroyed by Alhajjaj during the Ummayed dynasty. Also, I have read somewhere that it is mentioned in a hadith that as a sign of the end of times, someone will destroy the ka'ba. That being said, Muslims are obligated to protect the holy cities even if they are protected by God, since God's protection is through the Muslims them selves and not by invisible angles. In the Quran it says that God will protect the Quran from corruption, and the sahabah worked very hard to preserve every word in it, because they realize that by doing so they are embodying the aiyah that says God will protect the Quran.
 
.
The destruction of sites associated with early Islam is an on-going phenomenon that has occurred mainly in the Hejaz region of western Saudi Arabia, particularly around the holy cities of Mecca and Medina. The demolition has focused on mosques, burial sites, homes and historical locations associated with the Islamic prophet, Muhammad and many of the founding personalities of early Islamic history. In Saudi Arabia, many of the demolitions have officially been part of the continued expansion of the Masjid Al-Haram at Mecca and the Prophet's Mosque in Medina and their auxiliary service facilities in order to accommodate the ever-increasing number of Hajj pilgrims. Detractors of the demolitions and expansion programs have argued that this phenomenon is part of the implementation of state-endorsed Wahhabi religious policy that emphasizes the Oneness of God (Tawhid) and entirely rejects the worship of divine proxies to God or even the practices and habits which might lead to idolatry and polytheistic association (Shirk).

Theological justification

Islam’s core tenet is the recognition and worship of one supreme, non-Trinitarian God, which it shares with Judaism. Islam espouses the direct link between a believer and the God and rejects the intercession or the existence of a medium between the two. Although this position can be considerably more complex within the different schools and strains of Islamic theology, the conservative orthodoxy of Wahhabism adheres strictly and literally to this position and prefers to abide by a more narrow and safeguarded interpretation.
The widespread demolition of gravesites, tombs, mausoleums, birthplaces, mosques or locations otherwise connected with the prophet Muhammad, his family and companions, pious individuals or important events in Islamic history after the Saudi conquest of the Hejaz was an attempt to eradicate non-orthodox practices that had become established in regional Islam during that time. The ongoing demolition of similar places until the present day may constitute the continued effort by Saudi authorities to safeguard Islamic monotheism against non-orthodox practices that are not recognized by Islam.
Controversy arises because, like any theological issues, there are wide differences in opinion concerning orthodoxy, and with what constitutes acceptable Islamic practices and what does not. This is further compounded by the countless interpretations of Islamic theology that can be present in places such as Mecca and Medina, where millions of Muslim visitors from diverse regions and backgrounds of the Islamic World can congregate in the same space at any given time.

Not in dispute Islam prohibits the deification of anything other than God and this includes the attributing of divine characteristics (such as all-encompassing power or the control or knowledge of human destiny) to anyone or thing other than God, including prophets and saints. Furthermore, there exist within the accredited traditions of Muhammad (Sunnah) several injunctions prohibiting the visitation of sites and more specifically the erecting of structures over graves such as mausoleums and Mosques. It is according to these specific orders from the Prophetic authority of Muhammad that Wahhabi and other orthodox Muslims devise the rulings that permit the demolition referenced above.

Visitation of historical sites


The orthodox view is that the visitation of mosques and historical sites in which Muhammad himself prayed during his lifetime other than the Prophet’s Mosque and the Quba’ Mosque in Medina, and claiming that doing so is an emulation of the Prophetic Sunnah—a valid act of worship and a recommended or virtuous act, is incorrect and there is no legal evidence based on Islamic sources that encourages it as such.

The Muslim jurist Ibn Taymiyyah said the following regarding this matter: “The scholars of the early generations after the Prophet (Salaf) from amongst the people of Medina and elsewhere did not regard it as recommended (mustahabb) to visit any places in and around Medina after the Mosque of the Prophet, except for the Mosque of Quba’, because the Prophet did not specify any mosque to be visited apart from that.” [Majmu’ al-Fataawa (17/469)]

“Abu Bakr r.a, Umar r.a (Ibn al-Khattab), Uthman r.a and Ali r.a and all the predecessors of both the immigrants (muhajirun) and the Medinan supporters of the Prophet Muhammad (Ansaar) used to travel from Medina to Mecca to perform the Hajj and Umrah, or for other purpose. None of them said that he was keen to pray in the places where the Prophet had prayed. It is known that had this been recommended in their view, they would have been the first ones to do it, for they had more knowledge of the Sunnah and followed it more closely than anyone else." [Iqtidaa’ al-Siraat al-Mustaqeem]

It is also narrated in the Hadith that the companion of Muhammad, Al-Ma’rur ibn Suwayd said: “We went out with Umar ibn al-Khattab r.a and we came across a mosque on our route. The people rushed to pray in the mosque, and Umar r.a said, ‘What is the matter with them?’ They said, ‘This is a mosque in which the Prophet of God (Muhammad s.a.w) prayed.’ Umar r.a said, ‘O people, those who came before you were destroyed because they followed such practices until they made them places of worship. Whoever happens to be there at the time of prayer, let him pray there, and whoever is not there at the time of prayer, let him continue on his journey.’ [Classed as a sound narration by Ibn Taymiyyah’s in his Al-Majmu’ al-Fataawa (1/281)]

Below is the incomplete lists of destroyed sites


Mosques
The mosque at the grave of Sayyid al-Shuhada’ Hamza bin Abdul Muttalib.[8]
The Mosque of Fatima Zahra.[8]
The Mosque of al-Manaratain.[8]
Mosque and tomb of Sayyid Imam al-Uraidhi ibn Ja‘far al-Sadiq, destroyed by dynamite on August 13, 2002.
Four mosques at the site of the Battle of the Trench in Medina.
The Mosque of Abu Rasheed.[15]
Salman al-Farsi Mosque, in Medina.[15]
Raj'at ash-Shams Mosque, in Medina.[15]
Cemeteries and tombs
Jannat al-Baqi in Medina, leveled, still open access for men only.
Jannat al-Mu'alla, the ancient cemetery at Mecca.[15]
Grave of Hamida al-Barbariyya, the mother of Imam Musa al-Kazim.
Grave of Amina bint Wahb, Muhammad’s mother, bulldozed and set alight in 1998.
Graves of Banu Hashim in Mecca.[15]
Tombs of Hamza and other martyrs were demolished at Uhud.[15]
Tomb of Eve in Jeddah,[15] sealed with concrete in 1975.
Grave of the father of Muhammad, in Medina.[15]
Historical religious sites
The house of Mawlid where Muhammad is believed to have been born in 570. Originally turned into a cattle market, it now lies under a rundown building which was built 70 years ago as a compromise after Wahhabi clerics called for it to be torn down.[16]
The house of Khadija, Muhammad’s first wife. Muslims believe he received some of the first revelations there. It was also where his children Fatimah and Qasim were born. After it was rediscovered during the Haram extensions in 1989, it was covered over and it was made into a library.
House of Muhammed in Medina, where he lived after the migration from Mecca.[15]
Dar al Arqam, the first Islamic school where Muhammad taught.[16] It now lies under the extension of the Masjid Al Nabawi of Madinah.
Qubbat’ al-Thanaya, the burial site of Muhammed's incisor that was broken in the Battle of Uhud.[8]
Mashrubat Umm Ibrahim, built to mark the location of the house where Muhammad’s son, Ibrahim, was born to Mariah.
Dome which served as a canopy over the Well of Zamzam.[15]
Bayt al-Ahzan of Sayyida Fatima, in Medina.[15]
House of Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq, in Medina.[15]
Mahhalla complex of Banu Hashim, in Medina.[15]
House of Ali where Hasan and Husayn were born.

Destruction of early Islamic heritage sites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
. .
I am not 100% sure, but I don't know of any aiyah or hadith where its said that God will protect Mecca and Madina. In fact, Ka'ba was destroyed or partially destroyed by Alhajjaj during the Ummayed dynasty. Also, I have read somewhere that it is mentioned in a hadith that as a sign of the end of times, someone will destroy the ka'ba. That being said, Muslims are obligated to protect the holy cities even if they are protected by God, since God's protection is through the Muslims them selves and not by invisible angles. In the Quran it says that God will protect the Quran from corruption, and the sahabah worked very hard to preserve every word in it, because they realize that by doing so they are embodying the aiyah that says God will protect the Quran.

Ch. 105 of Quran

"Seest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the Companions of the Elephant? Did He not make their treacherous plan go astray? And He sent against them Flights of Birds, Striking them with stones of baked clay. Then did He make them like an empty field of stalks and straw, (of which the corn) has been eaten up. For the covenants (of security and safeguard enjoyed) by the Quraish, Their covenants (covering) journeys by winter and summer,- Let them adore the Lord of this House, Who provides them with food against hunger, and with security against fear (of danger)."


And i haven't listened any hadith which says that Qa'ba will be destroyed, I think the hadith you are mention is about Mosque Al-Aqsa not Qa'ba
 
.
You will get the answer once you understand that there are people who live in Makkah and are Saudi citizens who live there for their whole life, and that Makkah is not some barren desert that people come to once a year and leave.

So make those huge skyscrapers in some other place, make that gigantic clock tower some other place.

Makkah isn't so small that there was no other place to build a huge building complex. Why right on the gate of Haram?

I didn't think of this issue as one too big, I personally thought that this was being blown out of proportions. But after my Umrah visit before Ramzan this year, I have come to understand it that why people are against it. It just gives you a feeling that you don't want to have, a giant skyscraper standing over Haram.
 
.
Actually come to think of it, what the Saudis do in Mecca is none of anybody's concern because Mecca lies within the sovereign state of KSA. They can do as they please and others have no right to criticize it.
 
.
Ch. 105 of Quran

"Seest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the Companions of the Elephant? Did He not make their treacherous plan go astray? And He sent against them Flights of Birds, Striking them with stones of baked clay. Then did He make them like an empty field of stalks and straw, (of which the corn) has been eaten up. For the covenants (of security and safeguard enjoyed) by the Quraish, Their covenants (covering) journeys by winter and summer,- Let them adore the Lord of this House, Who provides them with food against hunger, and with security against fear (of danger)."


And i haven't listened any hadith which says that Qa'ba will be destroyed, I think the hadith you are mention is about Mosque Al-Aqsa not Qa'ba

Sorry loveicon but the destruction of the Qa'ba is one of the sign of the approaching Day of Judgement presumably after the the coming of Christ and Mahdi a time when Islam would be lifted up from the hearts of men......as far as i recall a man from Ethiopia would destroy it
 
.
Back
Top Bottom