Why Doesn't Pakistan Issue MMRCA Tender?

[sparklingway]

You know what i am sick of hearing this economic ****.To tell you the truth in my opinion Pakistan's economy will remain same forever.There will be no change ever.World will go far far ahead but still Pakistan would be living in the 19th century.

So better would be to buy some hardware otherwise this money would go into the pockets of whom every one knows.

This only shows your indifference to the state of our economic disparity, the burden of buying unnecessary hardware and the heartless attitude towards our development. We are buying a bunch of F-16s already, JF-17s are under production, J-10s will be coming soon. PN and PA are getting a whole lot of hardware as well. We have not stopped our defense purchases but proposing to further accelerate them are extremely ironic. It's not like you're gathering a bunch of toys to play for. These things cost a whole lot of money, which we don't have right now. The budget deficit is hitting an all time high. PSDP budget has been cut to allow an increased defense expenditure and nobody has cried because the nation understands its importance right now.

Whatever yar MODS please Close the thread as there is nothing to discuss because everywhere Pakistan's economy comes.

I'm guessing you buy aircrafts in exchange for sand and not money.

 

[pak-yes]

This only shows your indifference to the state of our economic disparity, the burden of buying unnecessary hardware and the heartless attitude towards our development. We are buying a bunch of F-16s already, JF-17s are under production, J-10s will be coming soon. PN and PA are getting a whole lot of hardware as well. We have not stopped our defense purchases but proposing to further accelerate them are extremely ironic. It's not like you're gathering a bunch of toys to play for. These things cost a whole lot of money, which we don't have right now. The budget deficit is hitting an all time high. PSDP budget has been cut to allow an increased defense expenditure and nobody has cried because the nation understands its importance right now.



I'm guessing you buy aircrafts in exchange for sand and not money.

Come on yar you are accusing me.Read my Post #53.I am asking MODS to close this thread which i started because there is nothing to discuss because all these things can only be afforded by Money and Money comes from a good economy.

 

[sparklingway]

Come on yar you are accusing me.Read my Post #53.I am asking MODS to close this thread which i started because there is nothing to discuss because all these things can only be afforded by Money and Money comes from a good economy.

No hard feelings. I apologize if I offended you or went a notch ahead.

 

[Luftwaffe]

So far so good, Air Force is going good. Any out of the box move will be after indian mrca.

PAF future is secure. Allow me list things PAF will look into.

China is actively working on smaller and larger AWACS and AEW&C
Active work on small and large cargo planes
Active work on advance trainers for next generation fighters
Active work on FC-20/J-10B
Active work on AESA radars
ground radars
SAMs
Active work on derivative of SU-27/su-30 that is J-11B/C/D (i'm betting by 2015 not even russians can stop China from marketing it)
Active work on JXX
Active work on Air tankers
Inshort I don't see Pakistan is going to have any troubles with procurements of all these in the future Chinese are good with project timings as well as their products qualities are far better than russians because they have trends to follow North American Standards and that is a good approach.

Feel safe from western harassment.
in Future we'll get
Air tankers
AWACS/AEW&C
Trainers/advance Trainers
FC-20
JXX
joint work on blk 3 FC-1/JF-17
Cargo Planes
ground radars
SAMs

I think i've explained it in simple words.

 

[Peregrine]

Hi
even if Pakistan issues the tender who will be the participants except China, USA wont give us AESA, French their loyalty is already dubious, Gripen i dont need to explain why, Euro-fighter well lets just India will do go beyond extreme limits to stop Euro fighter deal, so who is left? Except China, and for that matter we already are getting j-10b

 

[pak-yes]

Seriously if we had the money EF would had been a really good Choice.

But even with EF there is a problem.Due to some unknown reasons EF also requires US clearance for Exports.

 

[Luftwaffe]

never heard of that pak-yes could you provide anylink. Because i read EF-2000 is a complete euro product. This is the only product that had cost americans billions dollars in loss if you need example after US refused to sell F-16s to saudi air force, saudi approached uk to purchase EF-2000 everything is online, americans are really regretting till today.
There is no hurry EF-2000 is very expensive, JXX is a very profitable investment. as always its unit cost would be less than EF2000/Rafale/F-35 thus beating it in price tag. with our investment in JXX we can get numbers of them from a reliable partner staging advance fighter Jets against neighbor.

 

[Kinetic]

Seriously if we had the money EF would had been a really good Choice.

But even with EF there is a problem.Due to some unknown reasons EF also requires US clearance for Exports.

EF Typhoon Trance 3 is the best MMRCA from the west. I will be very happy if India go for it. F-18 E/F Block II is also good.

Now here my two points for you....

If Pakistan float a MMRCA competition for around $ 8 billion who will respond?

Advanced version of J-10: Affordable. May be come with soft loans.
Rafale F3: With recent cancellation of JF-17 avionics deal, it has rare chance.
F-18 E/F: Highly doubtful if US will allow sell of APG-79 and other advanced technology to pakistan.
Su-30MK/Su-35: Russia may not be interested due to India.
Gripen NG: Sweden decided not to sell any fighter aircraft to Pakistan. It may change if they don't get Indian deal.
EF Typhoon: It has best chance to get into Pakistan's hand and most advanced among western MMRCA as well as very bright future. It comes with very advanced CAESAR, DASS, PIRATE and sophisticated weapons like Meteor and IRIS-T. Germany, Italy and UK all will be happy to sell it to Pakistan. If Pakistan manage to get 50 of this beast that will create a great leap in their capabilities.

In terms of capabilities....

1) EFT
2) Su-30MK or Su-35
3)F-18E/F or Rafale
4) Gripen NG

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

So far so good, Air Force is going good. Any out of the box move will be after indian mrca.

PAF future is secure. Allow me list things PAF will look into.

China is actively working on smaller and larger AWACS and AEW&C
Active work on small and large cargo planes
Active work on advance trainers for next generation fighters
Active work on FC-20/J-10B
Active work on AESA radars
ground radars
SAMs
Active work on derivative of SU-27/su-30 that is J-11B/C/D (i'm betting by 2015 not even russians can stop China from marketing it)
Active work on JXX
Active work on Air tankers
Inshort I don't see Pakistan is going to have any troubles with procurements of all these in the future Chinese are good with project timings as well as their products qualities are far better than russians because they have trends to follow North American Standards and that is a good approach.

Feel safe from western harassment.
in Future we'll get
Air tankers
AWACS/AEW&C
Trainers/advance Trainers
FC-20
JXX
joint work on blk 3 FC-1/JF-17
Cargo Planes
ground radars
SAMs

I think i've explained it in simple words.

Great reply , we have all that we need
with our friends , We will get J10B and J11B

 

[bilal1219]

A bit off topic.. But Do you really think any aircraft like JXX even exixts. i highly doubt it does. Its still on paper, i mean if it is in testing or in building phase, we would have heard something about it. so Please exclude the JXX from the equation couz we dont know whats gonna happen with that deal as yet.

 

[Kompromat]

For now we will stick to Thunder Program and we need to get it straight first !
Second Comes Marketing and to sale the bird to countries like egypt.

The Money would be put back in R&D to bring out a true Multirole Block III.
Along with vipers we would go for J-10B and no other Platform would be added prior to a Fifth generation solution.

F-16 Block 52+ / MLU M3
Thunders / Block I , II , III
J-10B's.
Jxx ??

Nothing else will join PAF else than them anytime soon not even x UAE Mirages.

Regards:

 

[jagjitnatt]

I would ask people here to use their gray cells a little and understand what the report said.

$8 billion for 250 JF-17 = $32 million per aircraft.

whereas the entire costs of a new JF-17 is $15 million.

Are you trying to justify that you are spending $32 million on just avionics on a plane that itself cost $15 million???

The deal for AVIONICS was just worth $1.6 billion and not $8 billion as many would like to believe.

The $8 billion was total for all the deals which are in negotiation or being done at the moment.

At $1.6 billion the amount comes up to be $6.4 million per aircraft which seems to be more reasonable.

 

[SEAL]

Why these Indians involve themselves in our debates like they are very important to us and like we need them

 

[JiNgOiStIc HiNdU]

I would ask people here to use their gray cells a little and understand what the report said.

$8 billion for 250 JF-17 = $32 million per aircraft.

whereas the entire costs of a new JF-17 is $15 million.

Are you trying to justify that you are spending $32 million on just avionics on a plane that itself cost $15 million???

The deal for AVIONICS was just worth $1.6 billion and not $8 billion as many would like to believe.

The $8 billion was total for all the deals which are in negotiation or being done at the moment.

This is Very Interesting !!

 

[pak-yes]

never heard of that pak-yes could you provide anylink. Because i read EF-2000 is a complete euro product. This is the only product that had cost americans billions dollars in loss if you need example after US refused to sell F-16s to saudi air force, saudi approached uk to purchase EF-2000 everything is online, americans are really regretting till today.
There is no hurry EF-2000 is very expensive, JXX is a very profitable investment. as always its unit cost would be less than EF2000/Rafale/F-35 thus beating it in price tag. with our investment in JXX we can get numbers of them from a reliable partner staging advance fighter Jets against neighbor.

I was reading EF article on Wikipedia.On the Export section to Saudia i think you will find what i am trying to say.

EF Typhoon Trance 3 is the best MMRCA from the west. I will be very happy if India go for it. F-18 E/F Block II is also good.

Now here my two points for you....

If Pakistan float a MMRCA competition for around $ 8 billion who will respond?

Advanced version of J-10: Affordable. May be come with soft loans.
Rafale F3: With recent cancellation of JF-17 avionics deal, it has rare chance.
F-18 E/F: Highly doubtful if US will allow sell of APG-79 and other advanced technology to pakistan.
Su-30MK/Su-35: Russia may not be interested due to India.
Gripen NG: Sweden decided not to sell any fighter aircraft to Pakistan. It may change if they don't get Indian deal.
EF Typhoon: It has best chance to get into Pakistan's hand and most advanced among western MMRCA as well as very bright future. It comes with very advanced CAESAR, DASS, PIRATE and sophisticated weapons like Meteor and IRIS-T. Germany, Italy and UK all will be happy to sell it to Pakistan. If Pakistan manage to get 50 of this beast that will create a great leap in their capabilities.

In terms of capabilities....

1) EFT
2) Su-30MK or Su-35
3)F-18E/F or Rafale
4) Gripen NG

Yes Indeed EF is the best.But sort of Expensive.Although we could get at least 80-90 EF for 8 billion dollars.

A bit off topic.. But Do you really think any aircraft like JXX even exixts. i highly doubt it does. Its still on paper, i mean if it is in testing or in building phase, we would have heard something about it. so Please exclude the JXX from the equation couz we dont know whats gonna happen with that deal as yet.

Don'y know Bro.Chinese are very secretive.Well there should be no doubt that J-XX must be existing the main concern should be will it be at par with Russian and American Tech or even a little Behind.Because to tell you truth after seeing the American difficulties with F-35 it shows that making a 5th Gen Fighter is no Joke.

I would ask people here to use their gray cells a little and understand what the report said.

$8 billion for 250 JF-17 = $32 million per aircraft.

whereas the entire costs of a new JF-17 is $15 million.

Are you trying to justify that you are spending $32 million on just avionics on a plane that itself cost $15 million???

The deal for AVIONICS was just worth $1.6 billion and not $8 billion as many would like to believe.

The $8 billion was total for all the deals which are in negotiation or being done at the moment.

so 8-1.6=6.4 Billion.So would you like to tell us what kinda deals are going on for 6.4 Billion Dollars if not for JF-17.