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Why doesn't Pakistan build an aircraft carrier?

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Please tell me why weak armed countries like Thailand and Spain have it?
Their so called 'enemies' are bordered !

BTW who said it costs billions?
You can get a small one (27,079 tonnes) from spain for 360 million euros...about 448 million dollars = half the price of 18 F-16 we purchased from U.S

Spanish_ship_Juan_Carlos_I_entering_Ferrol.jpg


Arguably, Pakistan has the best strategic location in all of Asia. What can be resting peacefully when our Navy has always been weak sitting like ducks and it was one of the reasons why we lost East Pakistan and faced blockade. Who knows anything else can get wrong maybe countering western corporations that want our resources from Balochistan or countering pirate terrorists, or maybe to attack India's south to divert attention to attack their bases. We need one
Mr Just look at the coast line of Thailand and Spain before talking about their Air Craft Carriers they have huge Sea Border than ours and those Air Craft carriers are sitting duck because both of these countries don't have much War Ships to back them up which are needed for the protection of Air craft Carriers so we need to focus on getting 24 Frigates and 16 Submarines
 
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If Aircraft Carrier costs around 300$-400$ as mentioned above then this is not out of pocket.
Also we can place there some Jf17 blockII later.
 
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And another one...................and another one...............

non stop invasion of "Intelligent" indian memebrs remind me of countless brainless zombies rising from the darkest, deepest shithole some horror movie.......... ok smart pants india has one Aircraft carrier and secnd is being built and third is on the drawing board and fourth is in the dreams..................... you keep PAF busy in counting their juicy targets.

Mate, its hard to accept reality, in case you beg to differ all I can say is lets contribute to articles rather Poking.

I still remember 80s and the terror of F16 Block 15
 
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Mr Just look at the coast line of Thailand and Spain before talking about their Air Craft Carriers they have huge Sea Border than ours and those Air Craft carriers are sitting duck because both of these countries don't have much War Ships to back them up which are need for the protection of Air craft Carriers so we need to focus on getting 24 Frigates and 16 Submarines
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Well said
 
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we really dont need a AC.. as Armstrong already mentioned, the economics involved would be way off the charts for the PN and does not cater in its sea denial doctrine.. subs are easier to maintain and are a headache to track by the opposing force.. the fear it projects is sufficient to keep pressure on any opposing force to divert assets on its location and neutralization before any offensive is mounted to block the ports.. and even if funds were somehow available for such a large battle group, it would be the first target at the start of hostilities and easier to locate.. with Indian assets numerically and technologically superior, this BG wouldnt survive for long against overwhelming odds.. it would be much easier to project fear rather than power and employ shoot and scoot tactics by the subs and try and keep the foe off guard, confused and frustrated..
 
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Let's just put it this way, acquiring and then operating an ACC is a huge undertaking which very few countries are able and willing to do. It seems that many here purely want to get an ACC for prestigious purposes. This is not the reason to get anything, you are incurring an inherent opputrunity cost of spending on other assets that could fit better into established doctrine. I'll expand my argument but note I will use examples from other nations including India for illustrative purposes.


Like I said before the main issue with operating an ACC is the costs and this can be broken down furth- initial costs of production/procurement, training costs, airframe/air compliment costs, maintenance costs, opeating costs, life cycle costs and CBG costs.

An ACC is inherently a large ship and these days very advanced so building or procuring one is going to cost at least 700-1BN USD if Pakistan was interested in domestic construction we could see these costs 1.5-2 times greater.

Training relatively isn't a huge expense but it is going to be considerable especially as the PN has no previous experience operating an ACC. You could expect costs of probably 50-150 million for this alone. There is also the issue of where the PN would recieve this training as I'm not sure if other ACC operating nations would either be willing or abl to train the PN for such operations. And Paksitan's freind China would be of little help here as they too have little to no experience themselves of such ops and are themselves on a path of learning through isolation.

The air wing procurement costs are naturally going to be huge. As we don't know what a/c the PN would get to operate off any future ACC let's assume it is the J-11. A decent amount of these is going to cost proboboly close to 1BN coupled with anther 500-800 mn for the rotary wing assets this is an enormous expense.

The maintenance costs for a ship like an ACC are considerable and can cost many 100s of millions thought the life of a ship and the fact that Pakistan is unlikely to be able to conduct major maintence issues in Paksitan mean the costs are even higher as the ACC will have to be sent to a foreign shipyard for such crickets to e carried out.


The operating costs of ACCs is HUGE having 1-3000 people embarked at anyone time (equal to the size of dozens of crews on smaller PN ships) presents a significant challenge in the way of costs and salaries. Addtionally the day to day costs of operating the ACC in the way of fuel and aviation fuel would be significant.


The life-cycle costs for an ACC would be significant and almost as much as the cost of the initial procurement. Having to hav the ACC undergo multiple MLUs and, as mentioned earlier, most likely in foreign shipyards would be easily 1BN USD.

A PN being as expensive as it is means that it as to go round with a potent CBG -using an IN analogy for future CBGs,this would consist of 1/2 P-15A Destroyers, 2/3 Frigates(Shvlaik or Talwar), 1/2 fleet replenishment tankers, 1/2 SSKs and 1/2 P-28A corvettes. This CBG in costing terms is about almost 6BN USD excluding the cost of the actual CBG. As such a CBG of the IN costs, all told, about 10BN USD. Of course the PN scenario is different but even still the costs to PN would be huge and it would take a huge proportion of the entire PN surface fleet just to serve the ACC. As the PN doesn't operate any destroyers there would be this gap in defences which could be deadly for any PN CBG.


Then there is the issue of doctrine. We are always told that the Pakistani military as a whole is purely defensive so inducting an ACC which is solely and offensive weapon would undermine this greatly. Addtionally the actual combat effectiveness of the PN ACC would most likely be incredibly limited. The great cost of the ACC relative to the Paksitani defence budget means it would be almost in possible to justify using it in any sort of conflict for fear of losing it and would thus also be a primary target for the IN/IAF.


All told it seems for The foreseeable future (20 years atleast) it is hard to see the PN even thinking about getting an ACC. Doing so would actually compromise the capabilities of the PN and drain the annual defence budget to such an extent most other capital spending would effectively have to cease.
 
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Let's just put it this way, acquiring and then operating an ACC is a huge undertaking which very few countries are able and willing to do. It seems that many here purely want to get an ACC for prestigious purposes. This is not the reason to get anything, you are incurring an inherent opputrunity cost of spending on other assets that could fit better into established doctrine. I'll expand my argument but note I will use examples from other nations including India for illustrative purposes.


Like I said before the main issue with operating an ACC is the costs and this can be broken down furth- initial costs of production/procurement, training costs, airframe/air compliment costs, maintenance costs, opeating costs, life cycle costs and CBG costs.

An ACC is inherently a large ship and these days very advanced so building or procuring one is going to cost at least 700-1BN USD if Pakistan was interested in domestic construction we could see these costs 1.5-2 times greater.

Training relatively isn't a huge expense but it is going to be considerable especially as the PN has no previous experience operating an ACC. You could expect costs of probably 50-150 million for this alone. There is also the issue of where the PN would recieve this training as I'm not sure if other ACC operating nations would either be willing or abl to train the PN for such operations. And Paksitan's freind China would be of little help here as they too have little to no experience themselves of such ops and are themselves on a path of learning through isolation.

The air wing procurement costs are naturally going to be huge. As we don't know what a/c the PN would get to operate off any future ACC let's assume it is the J-11. A decent amount of these is going to cost proboboly close to 1BN coupled with anther 500-800 mn for the rotary wing assets this is an enormous expense.

The maintenance costs for a ship like an ACC are considerable and can cost many 100s of millions thought the life of a ship and the fact that Pakistan is unlikely to be able to conduct major maintence issues in Paksitan mean the costs are even higher as the ACC will have to be sent to a foreign shipyard for such crickets to e carried out.


The operating costs of ACCs is HUGE having 1-3000 people embarked at anyone time (equal to the size of dozens of crews on smaller PN ships) presents a significant challenge in the way of costs and salaries. Addtionally the day to day costs of operating the ACC in the way of fuel and aviation fuel would be significant.


The life-cycle costs for an ACC would be significant and almost as much as the cost of the initial procurement. Having to hav the ACC undergo multiple MLUs and, as mentioned earlier, most likely in foreign shipyards would be easily 1BN USD.

A PN being as expensive as it is means that it as to go round with a potent CBG -using an IN analogy for future CBGs,this would consist of 1/2 P-15A Destroyers, 2/3 Frigates(Shvlaik or Talwar), 1/2 fleet replenishment tankers, 1/2 SSKs and 1/2 P-28A corvettes. This CBG in costing terms is about almost 6BN USD excluding the cost of the actual CBG. As such a CBG of the IN costs, all told, about 10BN USD. Of course the PN scenario is different but even still the costs to PN would be huge and it would take a huge proportion of the entire PN surface fleet just to serve the ACC. As the PN doesn't operate any destroyers there would be this gap in defences which could be deadly for any PN CBG.


Then there is the issue of doctrine. We are always told that the Pakistani military as a whole is purely defensive so inducting an ACC which is solely and offensive weapon would undermine this greatly. Addtionally the actual combat effectiveness of the PN ACC would most likely be incredibly limited. The great cost of the ACC relative to the Paksitani defence budget means it would be almost in possible to justify using it in any sort of conflict for fear of losing it and would thus also be a primary target for the IN/IAF.


All told it seems for The foreseeable future (20 years atleast) it is hard to see the PN even thinking about getting an ACC. Doing so would actually compromise the capabilities of the PN and drain the annual defence budget to such an extent most other capital spending would effectively have to cease.




You skipped mentioning the Fact the Home Port where the Aircraft Carrier is berthed needs to be specially created or modified. Sea needs to be dredged else the port being continental-shelf, add to that PSS or Port Support Systems for the Carrier in case a Navy has no history of using Aircraft carries earlier.

Nota Bene - I assume hands on Aircraft carrier have been trained previously with a Navy having aircraft Carrier. The way it was done when INS Vikrant or HMS Hercules first came to India in 1961. Indian Naval crew were trained in UK
 
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The marines have an annual budget of $4billion. The entire Pakistani military has one of 5billion.

One aircraft carrier can cost 5 billion.
 
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Our whole military strategy is based on defensive war. So useless rigt now. What Pakistan needs is smart buying. Getting an Aircraft carrier right now does not make economic sense. We cannot afford to maintain the fleet required for it. Just stregthen defensively and slowly increase our sub fleet(now we have second strike capability on 5 Agosta's). Pakistan has to balance its defence expenditure with only defensive buying.
 
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Our whole military strategy is based on defensive war. So useless rigt now. What Pakistan needs is smart buying. Getting an Aircraft carrier right now does not make economic sense. We cannot afford to maintain the fleet required for it. Just stregthen defensively and slowly increase our sub fleet(now we have second strike capability on 5 Agosta's). Pakistan has to balance its defence expenditure with only defensive buying.

Can you share some link to prove missile systems used for second strike, as yet only Exocet is compatible to Agosta 90. SM 39 can be fired from Torpedo tube 533 mm or 20.98 inches as SM39 has diameter of 35 cms with range is only 50 km...At 50km range will not give you sureity of second strike forget escaping as the sub will be exposed the moment SM39 is fired with ample MPAs scanning the seas.

In case the wepsys was delivered from mukrier sea water where water salinity could have helped in reducing the subs acoustic signature however lauch range of at 50km from Shore Mumbai, Madras, VIZAG, Portblair or Goa will be sure suicidal.

Do note due to denser air at sea level reduces missile range for missile fired at 0 meter SL.

There is no concrete evidence to substantiate France helped in expanding Torpedo tubes from 533 mm to 650 mm.

Diameter of Babur Missile is 20.4 inches which negates launch fromm 533 mm tubes. Without Babur second strike capability is Negated again.
 
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Our whole military strategy is based on defensive war. So useless rigt now. What Pakistan needs is smart buying. Getting an Aircraft carrier right now does not make economic sense. We cannot afford to maintain the fleet required for it. Just stregthen defensively and slowly increase our sub fleet(now we have second strike capability on 5 Agosta's). Pakistan has to balance its defence expenditure with only defensive buying.


sir,

Don't let the 'defencive doctrine be a matter of some kind of pride----this defencive posture is out of sheer poverty and total incompetence.
 
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If the politicians will allow Pakistan to grow at 8-12% for a couple of decades - then we can talk seriously - really, seriously about such things as carriers
 
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If the politicians will allow Pakistan to grow at 8-12% for a couple of decades - then we can talk seriously - really, seriously about such things as carriers
With this economy we may buy 50 Frigates and 30 Submarines with 100 Missile Boats but still because of the coastal line AC will be complete waste of money and time

Only useful if other Muslim countries allow us to use their sea for Military Purpose only than we will need AC but not for Pakistan coastal line
 
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We are already struggling to get number of Frigates and Submarine which we have give in our future plans for our Navy and here comes a thread about Air Craft Carrier :hitwall: :rofl: and also even if with best economy we still don't need AirCraft carrier until and unless Muslims Army form Joint Navy and other forces to than we will need Air Craft Carrier

Not enough struggling that the PDF getting from those Bogus INdians.

You indians should get a life !
 
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