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Why doesn't Pakistan build an aircraft carrier?

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Such a carrier cannot stray away from the coast as without jets she will be a sitting duck for enemy aircrafts. Better than this would be to get a no of frigates especially for the ASW role. It will be cheaper and much more flexible.

The JMSDF must be completely wrong then with their Hiruna/Shirane DDHs and the more recnt DDH16/Hyuga concept. And do realize the RN initially conceived the Invincible class as TDCC (through-deck command cruiser) and CAH (helicopter carrying heavy cruiser) rather than aircraft carrier as well, to operate helicopters only. It also never bothered the Italian navy (Andrea Doria and Vittorio Veneto classes). Not to mention the CCCPs Moskva class.
 
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The JMSDF must be completely wrong then with their Hiruna/Shirane DDHs and the more recnt DDH16/Hyuga concept. And do realize the RN initially conceived the Invincible class as TDCC (through-deck command cruiser) and CAH (helicopter carrying heavy cruiser) rather than aircraft carrier as well, to operate helicopters only. It also never bothered the Italian navy (Andrea Doria and Vittorio Veneto classes). Not to mention the CCCPs Moskva class.

Japan will not enter war without US airborne protection...UK and Italy are under NATO. Because of the fact that the the Brits are under NATO..the RN never thought they would need to operate without air cover and hence the Invincible class was conceived as a CAH. The Falkland war made them realize the limits of NATO coverage and suddenly they started putting jets on their carriers.

None of these are applicable to Pakistan...instead of outfitting one carrier for the ASW..why not have multiple frigates doing the same thing. At least because she will have more of them she can cover more area.
 
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Japan will not enter war without US airborne protection...UK and Italy are under NATO. Because of the fact that the the Brits are under NATO..the RN never thought they would need to operate without air cover and hence the Invincible class was conceived as a CAH. The Falkland war made them realize the limits of NATO coverage and suddenly they started putting jets on their carriers.

None of these are applicable to Pakistan...instead of outfitting one carrier for the ASW..why not have multiple frigates doing the same thing. At least because she will have more of them she can cover more area.

I assume by the statement 'being under NATO' you mean 'can rely on US carrier based air cover'. If not, then I have no idea what you mean.

It had nothing to do with NATO aircover. After all, the UK had its own fleet carriers in those days and wasn't dependent on US carriers for aircover beyond the reach of land based aviation. They were looking for something to lead and boost independent ASW groups (not the escort group of a carrier), which were employed to protect e.g. convoys crossing the atlantic with material for the reinforcements that would be flown in from te US and Canada after a Soviet assault on Europe (does the term 'Reforger' ring a bell?). Besides landing troops in support of Norway, such convoy protection was a major task of UK/RN in the NATO context. Any Harrier fighters put on board later were there to shoot down the occasional Soviet maritime patrol aircraft nosing around the ship and its escorts.
See e.g.
http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/uk_light.htm#inv-cl
http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/uk_helo.htm#herm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible_class_aircraft_carrier

Both Hermes and the Invincible (class) predate the Falklands war. Both did already operate Harriers prior to that conflict, just in limited numbers (4-5 apiece).

Hermes converted from ASW carrier to VSTOL (Harrier) carrier in 1980. She refitted at Portsmouth 1980 to June 1981, during which time a 12-degree ski-jump and facilities for operating Sea Harriers were added. She embarked 800 sqn. with 8 Sea Harrier FRS1 Fighter and 826 sqn. with 9 Sea King HAS5 ASW.
Invincible commissioned in 1980, with Illustrious following mid 1982. Prior to 1982, R05Invincible's air group consisted purely of Sea King HAS.5 anti-submarine helicopters and Sea Harrier FRS.1 aircraft. Typically, 9 Sea Kings, and 4-5 Sea Harriers were embarked (nb. there are pics of the Hermes with exactly this a/c load just after her conversion to VSTOl carrier as well).
When the Falklands War broke out, Hermes was made the flagship of the British forces, setting sail for the South Atlantic just three days after the Argentine invasion of the Falkland Islands. She carried 12 BAe Sea Harrier FRS.Mk.1 jets of the Royal Navy's Fleet Air Arm, 10 Sea King as well as a troop of Special Air Service (SAS) and Royal Marines.
Invincible sailed together with Hermes into the Falklands conflict, under the command of Captain J.J. Black. She was joined by 9 Sea King helicopters of 820 Squadron and 8 Sea Harriers from 801 Squadron in the channel.
Mid-May these 20 Sea Harriers were reinforced by 8 more of No.809 NAS and 6 RAF GR.3's. A merchant vessel, the MV Atlantic Conveyor, became temporary home for these jets. No sooner did the Harriers GR3 transition to the HMS Hermes and the Sea Harriers to both Invincible and Hermes, and the MV Atlantic Conveyor was struck by an Argentine French-made Exocet missile, which caused an uncontrollable fire. After this burnt out, it was decided to sink her. An additional 4 GR3s reinforcments flew in directly to Hermes.
So, in all, 28 Sea Harriers and 10 Harrier GR3 were available for use by the Royal Navy with the Sea Harriers split between the HMS Invincible (12) and the HMS Hermes (16), which also got to carry all 10 Harrier GR3.
lIn the aftermath of the Falklands, the typical air group on the Invincible class became three AEW Sea Kings, nine ASW Sea Kings and eight or nine Sea Harriers.

As for Japan and Italy, if your argument is they c/would only field helicopter cruisers (CAH) and helicopter destroyers (DDH) because they are under land based JSDAF air cover or US naval air cover then you are essentially saying NONE of their ships should have been build because the argument of vulnerability to air attack would apply to ANY ship in those navies. So, IMHO, that's not a valid argument for not adopting helicopter carriers, helicopter cruisers, helicopter destroyers.
 
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Would be nice to see strategic or projection assets such as aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines, etc, but presently, the PN must consolidate itself with at least a reasonable fleet of frigates, submarines, corvettes, new(er) helicopters, etc. In the long-term, I would love to see some cooperation with Turkey with regards to significantly enhancing PN's amphibious assault capabilities - i.e. building LPD.
 
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Would be nice to see strategic or projection assets such as aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines, etc, but presently, the PN must consolidate itself with at least a reasonable fleet of frigates, submarines, corvettes, new(er) helicopters, etc. In the long-term, I would love to see some cooperation with Turkey with regards to significantly enhancing PN's amphibious assault capabilities - i.e. building LPD.

Totally agreed :tup:
 
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We are looking to South Korea for LPD cooperation.

In May 2008 Defense officials from South Korea and Turkey held five days of talks on bilateral defense cooperation in Ankara. Turkey is seeking a big deck amphibious ship, and has turned to South Korea to build it. Turkey is seeking units of the the Dokdo class. High on the agenda is South Korea's cooperation on Turkey's shipbuilding program to develop amphibious large-deck landing ships and tank landing ships.

Maybe Pakistan can also join in on this ? Idk how Pakistani relations are with SK but they have been a great help to us both in artillery and our national tank projects.

Dokdo class
dokdo_class.jpg



Turkey's Undersecretariat for Defence Industries (Savunma Sanayii Müstesarligi - SSM) has issued a request for proposals (RfP) to seven local shipyards for the construction of a landing platform dock (LPD) vessel for the Turkish Naval Forces.

ADIK, Çelik Tekne, Dearsan Shipyard, Desan Shipyard, Istanbul Shipyard, RMK Marine and SEDEF received the RfP in February and have been given nine months to develop their tender responses.

The LPD requirement calls for a logistically self-sustaining amphibious vessel able to transport, sustain and land a battalion-size force in the Aegean, Mediterranean and Black Sea operating areas. The ship will also have a secondary humanitarian relief role.

While the SSM is looking to grow an indigenous naval design and build capability across local shipyards, the complex and unique nature of the LPD project has led officials to opt for a more conservative procurement strategy that allows Turkish industry to bid a solution based on a proven off-the-shelf design. This means that local shipyards are free to team with an overseas yard or design house, either through a licence or subcontract arrangement or in a joint venture.

Levent Class LPD is also a possibility and most likely with foreign assistance/tech transfer from Korea.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/rok/lp-x.htm
http://www.janes.com/news/defence/jni/jni100317_1_n.shtml
 
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Would be nice to see strategic or projection assets such as aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines, etc, but presently, the PN must consolidate itself with at least a reasonable fleet of frigates, submarines, corvettes, new(er) helicopters, etc. In the long-term, I would love to see some cooperation with Turkey with regards to significantly enhancing PN's amphibious assault capabilities - i.e. building LPD.

Agree. But what if PN got a chance to get an Invincible class in more or less the same type of deal as for the OHP McInerney (i.e. very cheap). This is not a very far fetched possibility. Age-wise all Invincible class ships are newer than McInerney, and of similar age as OHPs which may follow her in to PN service.

At just under 19000 tons full load displacement and measuring 199x31x7m, Dok Do is somewhat smaller than the Invincible class (22000 tons, 210x36x9m) and carries fewer A/C (up to 15 UH-60 Black Hawk or 10 SH-60F Ocean Hawk helicopters, as compared to 12 Harrier + 10 SeaKing/EH101 or 18 Harrier + 4 SeaKing/EH101). SHe can do only 23 knots as compared to 28 for the UK ship. Crew size is similar (not counting aircrew). Dokdo can carry some 700 Marines plus heavy euipmen and operate up to 2 LCAC, while the Invincible class has no dock (though it has served in LPH role, with Chinooks added in place of Harriers: it can embark 500 marines, but no heavy equipment like tanks).
 
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Can any tell me that Harpoon can hit the indian aircraft carrier.

no it cant because the latest Aircraft carrier will have a high defense and the aircraft carrier will be accompanied by many more ships so breaking its defense is very difficult because it will always be far from enemy ships and operate.....
 
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biggest threat to carriers is the diesel/electric subs.
 
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no it cant because the latest Aircraft carrier will have a high defense and the aircraft carrier will be accompanied by many more ships so breaking its defense is very difficult because it will always be far from enemy ships and operate.....

Sure Harpoon can hit the newest Indian carrier when it becomes available.

The most recent design has SAMs in VLS (Vertical Launch System) cells mounted on sponsons on either beam and four OTO Melera 76mm Super Rapid dual purpose guns are mounted on sponsons along the flight deck. Add to that passive and active EW measure. Nothing magical, nothing you don't find on a modern destroyer. And as for escorts, my faith in Indian navy carrier escorts is less than that in e.g. US or UK carrier escorts.

Attacking a carrier isn't easy but can be done. Clearly one would need a whole bunch of Harpoons. The can be launched from either a massed air attack, with carrier-based F/A-18E's carrying multiple Harpoons and anti-radiation missiles, or with strategic assets (B52, B1, B2) or with submarines (SSN) right near your carrier group, or any combination thereof.

Whether PN could do it? Well, a couple of good subs, MPA like Orion, plus surface ships and F-16s mounting a coordinated attack... it might well work. But clearly the US would have better odds.

Clearly one would need a whol bunch of Harpoons
 
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Sure Harpoon can hit the newest Indian carrier when it becomes available.

The most recent design has SAMs in VLS (Vertical Launch System) cells mounted on sponsons on either beam and four OTO Melera 76mm Super Rapid dual purpose guns are mounted on sponsons along the flight deck. Add to that passive and active EW measure. Nothing magical, nothing you don't find on a modern destroyer. And as for escorts, my faith in Indian navy carrier escorts is less than that in e.g. US or UK carrier escorts.

Attacking a carrier isn't easy but can be done. Clearly one would need a whole bunch of Harpoons. The can be launched from either a massed air attack, with carrier-based F/A-18E's carrying multiple Harpoons and anti-radiation missiles, or with strategic assets (B52, B1, B2) or with submarines (SSN) right near your carrier group, or any combination thereof.

Whether PN could do it? Well, a couple of good subs, MPA like Orion, plus surface ships and F-16s mounting a coordinated attack... it might well work. But clearly the US would have better odds.

Clearly one would need a whol bunch of Harpoons

well Air attack on carrier is difficult because carrier operates from a safe distance and will have advance radars so if it feels any aircraft approaching then soon the jets on the carrier will be launched if those jets are destroyed then may be it can be attacked and more than that a carrier group is large no of ships and subs so if a sub or ship want to attack it it has to even brake a barrier

generally a carrier when goes to war goes through a specified path only after the route is clear
 
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Even though Pakistan borders an ocean it has a very weak navy. Only 1 destroyer, a couple of frigates and 5 submarines. But, India has more destroyers and even an aircraft carrier. Shouldn't we build one to be able to keep up with them?
 
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We don't need an aircraft carrier, and India has a much bigger body of water to cover than us. And besides, it wastes money too.
 
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