Why does the U.S not have a "Muslim problem". Inviting your opinion

[Dubious]

Did you read the thread title?

Yes...But there is a way to say things and this def isnt:

You know how difficult for anyone from "non-developed world" to migrate to US right? Both natural and man-made barriers for immigration is the main reason. Major concentration of Muslim refugees (educated, uneducated and all) go directly to EU. Only selected few come to US. Even then, the amount of right wing politics is way too high compared to EU. In EU, they are gaining ground, but you already have mainstream right wing parties controlling politics...

PS: Bummer. By the time I typed this, lot many have essentially said the same thing...

but I guess that doesnt matter to you!

Carry on!

 

[Bombermanx1]

good to know how biased your thinking is!

Read post 4 and 13 ...

Thank you!

I agree with your post #13 about first generation not assimilating but first generation immigrants didnt indulge in rioting or other problems we see nowadays in EU.
So what happened to the children who happen to be Third Generation now,why have they gone bad?
There is another factor involved in this the first Generation muslims were mostly looking for their livelihood and Wahabism was not so rampant then, now its the complete opposite Wahabi ideology is funded by Middle east and therefore you see the problems in EU.

Regarding your post #4
Europe is and always was the domain of Christianity while USA is a Christian Majority Nation.
Europe will always stick to christian values and they want you to accept their values and live with it,while the new wahabi/salafi ideologues cannot tolerate such thing as they see the world through their prism.
Therefore the inevitable clash.

 

[Sneaker]

Yes...But there is a way to say things and this def isnt:


but I guess that doesnt matter to you!

Carry on!

Muslim problem is due to muslims right? if there was no muslim influx in recent past, there wouldn't be any "muslim problem"? right?

 

[Dubious]

I agree with your post #13 about first generation not assimilating but first generation immigrants didnt indulge in rioting or other problems we see nowadays in EU.
So what happened to the children who happen to be Third Generation now,why have they gone bad?
There is another factor involved in this the first Generation muslims were mostly looking for their livelihood and Wahabism was not so rampant then, now its the complete opposite Wahabi ideology is funded by Middle east and therefore you see the problems in EU.

I also "interpreted" what happened to the 3rd generation:

Hence when "new people" started coming in they faced a lot of racism....With a lot of slurs, attacks ...Hence the 1st generation didnt actually allow their children to "melt in" instead the fear alienated them to form their own communities on which they relied and lived in...their own world....with the "locals" only guessing what the "new people" ...curiosity and speculation is not a good mixture!

Worse part was these small group eventually became "established" in their own fields....business (sweets shop/ restaurants/ car garages), taxi drivers and so on.....eventually made their kids do the same...Many didnt send their kids to school or some just dropped out coz they couldnt tolerate the racism....Govt did nothing back then to curb it...and now its doing too much to brush everything under the rug!

THEN these people start sponsoring their nieces, nephews and marrying their kids to relatives in Pakistan to bring in more forces for their "businesses" or in the same line of work...Coz no references were built....

And then comes the welfare system....and its loop holes! I dont know much about it but seriously it needs to be amended to patch those loop holes...Apparently once upon a time in Wales kids hitting 18 were almost guaranteed an apartment of some kind...spoiling kids that young ended up with more demands...Then collage loans dont need to be paid if you earn lower than a certain wage bracket so why on earth would anyone wanna get highly educated and spend ages in paying loans when you can be a cashier and keep all your pay?!

These kind of loop holes were found and abused to cause a even larger lazy not very educated class of its own!

AND THEN comes the crazy wacko dudes.... some backstreet Mullah for god knows which slap he received as a kid goes around and preaches crap!

Regarding your post #4
Europe is and always was the domain of Christianity while USA is a Christian Majority Nation.
Europe will always stick to christian values and they want you to accept their values and live with it,while the new wahabi/salafi ideologues cannot tolerate such thing as they see the world through their prism.
Therefore the inevitable clash.

Well that is really no different from you talking about the "WAHABISM" or "SALAFI" ....To be secular means you dont feed others your value....When you are feeding others YOUR values it isnt very far from Wahabism and Salafi (although that isnt what these 2 schools teach but that is how it is interpreted!)

Muslim problem is due to muslims right? if there was no muslim influx in recent past, there wouldn't be any "muslim problem"? right?

Muslim problem isnt ENTIRELY due to Muslims but circumstances ....read post 13

Regarding your post #4
Europe is and always was the domain of Christianity while USA is a Christian Majority Nation.
Europe will always stick to christian values and they want you to accept their values and live with it,while the new wahabi/salafi ideologues cannot tolerate such thing as they see the world through their prism.
Therefore the inevitable clash.

Actually most Americans think that America is less liberal as compared to the "liberals" of Europe....In America they have the whole bible belt to keep the liberals at bay....Maybe liberals clashing with "Wahabism" "Salafism" is what is causing chaos!

 

[Bombermanx1]

I also "interpreted" what happened to the 3rd generation:




Well that is really no different from you talking about the "WAHABISM" or "SALAFI" ....To be secular means you dont feed others your value....When you are feeding others YOUR values it isnt very far from Wahabism and Salafi (although that isnt what these 2 schools teach but that is how it is interpreted!)

Whether you like it or not Europe is that way since it is the domain of Christianity and as a Immigrant one is supposed to follow their rules,values and ethics and become integrated.
You can say the same about Islamic Nations or middle east who want you to behave just like the Christian nations of Europe do.

 

[Sneaker]

Muslim problem isnt ENTIRELY due to Muslims but circumstances ....read post 13

I never said entirely. But since the root cause itself is absent in US scenario, there is no chain reaction to cause further issues.

 

[Dubious]

Whether you like it or not Europe is that way since it is the domain of Christianity and as a Immigrant one is supposed to follow their rules,values and ethics and become integrated.
You can say the same about Islamic Nations or middle east who want you to behave just like the Christian nations of Europe do.

Yes but as a developed, educated, non-discriminatory (outer laws) of a secular nation one isnt allowed to force feed...

If they want to equate with Islamic nations and ME...then they will also need to drop their "secular" pretense and call themselves for what they are "Christian"! Sad to say that isnt true coz they arent Christians and hate divine rules! Liberalism is the new cult!

 

[Dubious]

I never said entirely. But since the root cause itself is absent in US scenario, there is no chain reaction to cause further issues.

Root cause is absent? Do you think out of all those immigrants living in America not 1 is a Muslim?

Yes influx of Muslims might be a problem another one would be trouble makers given asylum ...you know those who cause problems back home and then seek asylum...well if they caused problems back home whats stopping them from causing problems in the new land?

 

[Bombermanx1]

Yes but as a developed, educated, non-discriminatory (outer laws) of a secular nation one isnt allowed to force feed...

If you want to equate with Islamic nations and ME...then they will also need to drop their "secular" pretense and call themselves for what they are "Christian"! Sad to say that isnt true coz they arent Christians and hate divine rules as possible! Liberalism is the new cult!

They might be liberal since they had the Roman and Greek Empires back then which were quite liberal,But at the heart of it they are Christians, yes they hate to see the Dark ages and Christianity went through much reforms since then and separated the Church from the state aka Secularism.
While those nations might be Secular and liberal in tolerating others due to their reforms,they still follow Christian values and their nations are founded on the basis of Christianity.
You cannot ask for the world to be Either be like us (Middle east and Islamic nations and drop the pretence and be theological nation) or be totally Secular.The world doesn't work that way.

Some find balance in between the two.


What remains to be seen is can Islam go through such reforms as them?

 

[Dubious]

Simple... US homeland sec agencies would whip the shyte out of the mullahah madarcords types if they even get a whiuff of any conspiracy ..specially after 9/11...You can see that fear in the eyes of the muslim immigrants.

Plus most American public, be it of any ethnicity, strives to protect their way of life and would not shy down from slapping sense to a mullah if he /she/trans where to give a effed up sermon. contrary to what the media potraysm dearborn is not a no go area for christians unline some streets in britain.

O dear! The amount of ignorance is really high!

1) Yes to the 1st para and that is how it should be...except the bold part

2) Muslims do make a part of the AMERICAN PUBLIC....main thing is since everyone is an immigrant new ideas are accepted easily and assimilated rather than feeding their ideas to everyone....

As for the effed up sermon...well that isnt the case many idiots still managed to get in and still manage to give stupid sermons....What they cant do is act on the hate speech they delivered!

Because Europe was mean to immigrants in the past...and due to their colonial history....the refugees or workers who came in during the colonial rules and the harsh treatment they got is backfiring badly now! When you oppress someone too long they will bounce back hard!

The European system was changing as an apology for what they did but sadly oppressed psychology instead saw it as a way to pounce back! Same thing happening to the blacks in America now!

 

[Sneaker]

Root cause is absent? Do you think out of all those immigrants living in America not 1 is a Muslim?

Yes influx of Muslims might be a problem another one would be trouble makers given asylum ...you know those who cause problems back home and then seek asylum...well if they caused problems back home whats stopping them from causing problems in the new land?

I think you did not read my previous posts. America is not free of muslim problem altogether. But it is not in the scale of EU because the contact has been very limited and in and around major cities. And it is the same point, EU gave asylum to refugees without too much scrutiny, US did not (but the reason wasn't terrorism back then).. so you point about my religious intolerance is??

 

[Dubious]

They might be liberal since they had the Roman and Greek Empires back then which were quite liberal,But at the heart of it they are Christians,

Because they wont admit it and living a lie they seem to have tried to change their system to apologize for all the skinhead type attacks of the past....where even the local police wouldnt register much and no one dared to put in a proper complain and follow it to the end! When the system finally saw its faults and decided to change a bit (literally give them less of a hard time) many took it as a signal to take revenge

yes they hate to see the Dark ages and Christianity went through much reforms since then and separated the Church from the state aka Secularism.
While those nations might be Secular and liberal in tolerating others due to their reforms,they still follow Christian values and their nations are founded on the basis of Christianity.

Try telling ANY European that! Many will say yes I am Christian but I am liberal ... Many dont even know the basics of the bible...like many Muslims in Pakistan I could easily make a verse and claim its from the bible and they would believe me...BUT since they are not practicing Christians (or as THEY LIKE TO CALL IT LIBERAL) they will not act on anything

We call it ignorance...they ignore their religion and expect the other to do so too...

You cannot ask for the world to be Either be like us (Middle east and Islamic nations and drop the pretence and be theological nation) or be totally Secular.The world doesn't work that way.

Hence why I said pretense! At least the ME dont pretend and tell you they are what they are!

Some find balance in between the two.

Very few do

What remains to be seen is can Islam go through such reforms as them?

If it was reform it would have been a balance between the 2 not finding a new cult called liberalism....

We call it ignorance...they ignore their religion and expect the other to do so too...

I think you did not read my previous posts. America is not free of muslim problem altogether. But it is not in the scale of EU because the contact has been very limited and in and around major cities. And it is the same point, EU gave asylum to refugees without too much scrutiny, US did not (but the reason wasn't terrorism back then).. so you point about my religious intolerance is??

US actually did but their asylum system was different...It put dictators in charge in ME and gave them support and asylum from world persecution in their OWN LANDS (Ghadaffi, Asad, Saddam, Mubarak- you name it!)

The locals of ME suffered and took asylum in EU...

The locals of ME suffered and some went crazy and got recruited in for revenge...

 

[Viper0011.]

We are seeing the rise of Salafists, Sharia patrols and No go muslim zones in Europe. Deep seated antagonism between Muslim citizenry and the locals. We are seeing Europeans really struggle with a rise of right wing groups as a challenge to their so called " Muslim problem". I'm afraid there is going to be all out war in the streets soon .

YET- How come we don't see this play out in the U.S.?

@Oscar @Horus @FaujHistorian [USER=2]@WebMaster @waz[/USER]

Sorry for the long response. I kind of specialize on this topic so I'll give you a lot of content on it.

If you don't mind, will you list out the countries that have these "No Go" areas in the West in control of "Muslims".....?? We have so called "Muslims" here in the US, who belong to Gangs like the "Nation of Islam". Go to some parts of Bronx or Kansas City or Missouri or Oakland, Detroit, or Chicago, and you'll find these areas (and I can go on and on giving you names of almost every big city in the US). But interesting enough, NONE of these areas actually represent a no go area because of "Islam" as a religion. It just so happens that majority of the criminals in these areas sought affiliation with the gang I mentioned above through their jail tenure. Does this gang "practice" Islam? Hell no. Its a fashion symbol in that under world. A common Caucasian American would not dare going into these areas.

So considering the above, when you say "No Go" areas. Are you sure those are no go because they are highly ethnic like the Jackson Heights in NY, Miami, Central Jersey, etc, and the locals / Caucasian Americans don't go there because its an outsider culture (Bangladeshi, Indian, Pakistani and Mexican / Cuban in three examples above); or there is a militia type, religious aspect that "no one belonging to other religions can come here"??

These are two different, yet very critical perspectives of taking a look at it. Is this an "Islamic" or "Hindu" or "Catholic Christian (Cuban and Mexicans' case) problem or is it just a foreign culture to other local Americans or Caucasians so they can't really connect with it.

I just wanted to clarify your own thought process a bit as it doesn't seem like you've actually made contacts with different groups of people or know these issues in detail.

Next, to answer your question:

1) The United States, hands down is THE BEST place to live for anyone. Our constitution provides freedom and a path to success to anyone who wants to follow the American dream and be successful and contribute to our society. There is opportunity for everyone that's provided as a part of our constitution and the system. Other countries don't have that.

2) I read a few posts below, some are saying its a "quality" issue. No its not. The poor people from South America come to the US and from across the globe (and have been coming for decades). Same goes for people from Islamic countries or other places like India and China.

I used to get coffee from this store in Chicago owned by a very nice Indian family from Punjab. The guy hadn't been to high school in his entire life in India or in the US. Somehow, came to the US, learned the language and started a business. Last I met him, he owned a few stores earning great income. His English wasn't as great but he over came that, worked hard and now, one of his son is a Doctor, the other one is a Lawyer and the third one is a Business Man.

The point is, what anyone can get from the US, irrespective of their religion, color or background, is a clear shot at the future. And the same chance is then given to their next generations. And they don't lose that sight. If you want to break it down, its three things really (1): Education (2) Awareness about the success and the system and how it can change your life, without changing your religion or values (3) The System itself

Same is applied to Muslims too. A family migrating from Saudi Arabia or Yemen or Pakistan, has seen the toughness and the roughness of their systems. The unnecessary intolerance, the intensity some illiterate mullahs can pour into everyone's life by sticking to loud speakers preaching their version of Islam in many cases. I just had dinner with an Indian friend who was talking about trying a business in India while not leaving the US. As he doesn't want to go live there because he's so used to the American culture, system and all. So our culture and the system changes people's lives, their styles, even in religion and all. They get "Americanized" because we don't have intensity and violence in the US, and the system is focused on providing "success" to everyone than caring for people's religions or cultures, etc.

Now on Muslims, the US allows Muslims to freely practice their religion, just as a Christian or a Jewish person can. Whether you are a Salafi, Sunni or Shiite,it doesn't matter. So when there are no restrictions on following what you believe in, and there are no restrictions on how high you can go in the society by working hard, and no restrictions on how well you can build your next generation's future, why would there be a problem? All you need in the US is the ability to work hard and stick to the system. It'll somehow create ways for you to be successful and you'll enjoy a much better quality of life compared to anywhere else on the planet (and I mean it LITERALLY, been to many countries and seen it all).

In Europe, the issue is opposite. Their system doesn't care or allow for lower income minorities to flourish. Everyone gets government's assistance if you are under developed (aka, poor) and that's it. The government washes their hands and thinks that's enough done through a welfare check.

In the US, you have it the other way around, you get preferential treatment if you are a poor, minority owned or historically developed business, individual or even a student, trying to work hard to go up. The schools and colleges push you towards finding a job. There is not a whole lot of welfare compared to Europe (although the US has its own Welfare issues). But the system is Capitalist in nature....in order for you to make money, you have to push yourself and work hard.
So I won't call this a "Muslim" issue when you take a look at England, or France, etc. This is really a minority related issue, created and fueled by their respective governments. So much for being "Socialist".

Not everyone wants a small pay check sitting at home, they want their government to help push some who can't go above in the business, education and in the professional world. When the government doesn't ensure people's success through initiatives, incentives, you'll have a huge population getting angry, going through depressive cycles and eventually hating the government. Now if this population wasn't given a good chance at education and that openness you get from going to school and reading about everything, doesn't exist, and you listen to a cleric, I bet one will have some intense feelings growing inside. Because they simply don't know any better.

Hope this helps.

 

[flamer84]

This is a subject and a question that I've been curious about and have not found any real answers to.

We are seeing the rise of Salafists, Sharia patrols and No go muslim zones in Europe. Deep seated antagonism between Muslim citizenry and the locals. We are seeing Europeans really struggle with a rise of right wing groups as a challenge to their so called " Muslim problem". I'm afraid there is going to be all out war in the streets soon .

YET- How come we don't see this play out in the U.S.?
Sure, we have some isolated issues here and there but our Muslim communities are well integrated and peaceful by many miles. What is the reason for the two diametrically opposite storylines, yet both happening within a Western culture?

@Oscar @Horus @FaujHistorian [USER=2]@WebMaster @waz[/USER]

Because ,for the most part,the US gets to pick its immigrants while Europe is swamped with boat people.

Europe has forget its tradition of multiculturalism but in case of United states its the super power because of the people of many nation dwelling there.

The US is a superpower because it was right there to pick up the pieces when the European stupids decided to take a hammer on their own countries,empires,infrastructure,economies in two World Wars.

 

[FREEDOM200555]

Simple reason is....Homeland security will deport their *** from USA. Where else would they get free food stamp, unemployment benefits and support for the family and of course benefits for children.