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Why do we fear Secularism?

haviZsultan

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Why do we fear Secularism?[/B]​

Many Pakistanis have a built in aversion towards the word secularism while taking an excessive pride in the Islamic Republic attached to Pakistan’s name. Despite the fact that many Pakistanis fail to follow the tenets of Islam and the word Islamic Republic makes a mockery of the meaning it remains a source of excessive pride. People claim that today the country is very far from Islam as very few people in Pakistan really follow the tenets of Islam however very few of them can answer the question whether it worthwhile to have an “Islamic Republic” only in name. However the real question is do we really have anything to fear from Secularism in the first place?

According to its dictionary meaning Secularism refers to the equal treatment of each and every religious group within the Nation and to the idea that religion should have a smaller role in politics and decision making because when it has too large a role people spend their time over their own separate interpretations of religion rather than Nation building and the tasks at hand.

Many Muslims in Pakistan fear secularism because they have a perverse idea of the concept fearing Islam will be diminished with Secularism. This is completely untrue. Pakistan’s Islamic identity will not be lost with a Secular system.

Will Secularism decrease Islam’s value in Pakistan?

Many Pakistanis continually fear that secularism will decrease the value of Islam or worse will eliminate Islam from Pakistan.

The fact is no one is pushing Islam away and with 95% of the population of Pakistan being proud and extremely pious Muslims for the most part it is impossible to even try. Islam will still be practiced by the majority of people as it is being practiced today without any hindrance whatsoever. The only difference perhaps will be that religion will be a personal matter. A person who does not follow Islam devotedly or a follower of a different religion or a sect of Islam will not be persecuted for having his own separate beliefs.

If seen in such a light Secularism is nothing to be feared. We can be proud Muslims and defend Islam as much or even more with a secular constitution as we can by labelling a country ruled by very corrupt people with barely any link to Islam an “Islamic Republic”. An Islamic Republic where the rulers themselves have no link to Islam and others often use religion as a tool to fulfill their personal interests.

The fact is only a country that has a constitution, laws (that are implemented instead of being cleared by people who can pay bribes) rules and regulations based on the tenets of Islam, the Islamic economic and judicial system and based on the teachings of the Prophet should have the right

The tenets of Islam support Secularism & harmony​

“To you be your Faith, and to me mine.”

Ayat 109:6

During the rule of Ali Ibn Abi Talib the fourth Caliph of Islam a Jew stole a shield that belonged to the Caliph and claimed that it was his. He was brought to the court of Ali to settle the dispute. However due to lack of proof and according to Islamic law the Jew was allowed to keep the shield as Hazrat Ali could not prove he owned the shield. This was a verdict going against a Muslim Caliph in his own court. However Hazrat Ali accepted the decision calmly. On the other hand the Jew was dumbfounded as he had indeed stolen the shield. He was quick to embrace Islam and declared that he had lied in front of the entire court.

This was one example of how Islam spread to become one of the largest religions in the World and won hearts and minds. It was due to the insight and tolerance our ancestors had that we got to where we are, that Cordova and Baghdad became centres of learning and Islam spread from the corners of Spain to the boundaries of far east.

Unfortunately many people in Pakistan do not understand that human rights and the equal treatment of all individuals in the country is more important in Islam rather than a notion of Islamic pride and superiority where labelling a country an “Islamic Republic” is deemed necessary. This pride comes from a past that our ancestors built with policies that we fail to understand today.

The Quaid E Azams Principles

“In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State — to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non- Muslims — Hindus, Christians, and Parsis — but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.”

Quaid E Azam, February 1948

The above quote is the greatest proof that Quaid E Azam did not want a state that was built completely on the basis of religion. Unfortunately since his death the constitution has been changed to suit every new leader that came and the title “Islamic Republic” untrue it may be has been added along with many laws that are completely out of line with Quaid E Azams original ideas for Pakistan. If we look closely at many of his speeches we will notice Quaid E Azam was a staunch supporter of secularism with an added focus on Islamic thought and ideology. Therefore until he was alive the Islamic Republic was never attached to the countries name. That happened when Ayub Khan came into power.

Other speeches by Quaid E Azam that clearly supported the message of peace, harmony and equality between all groups whether they are ethnic or religious are stated below.

‘We are starting with the fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one state. No matter what is his colour, caste or creed is first, second and last a citizen of this state with equal rights, privileges and obligations….”

“In due course of time Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to be Muslims – not in a religious sense for that is the personal faith of an individual- but in a political sense as citizens of one state.”

“[If you] work together in a spirit that everyone of you no matter what is his colour, caste or creed, is first, second and last a citizen of this state with equal rights, privileges and obligations, there will be no end to the progress you will make.”

11 August 1947

“The tenets of Islam enjoin on every Musalman to give protection to his neighbours and to the Minorities regardless of caste and creed. We must make it a matter of our honor and prestige to create sense of security amongst them.”

30th October 1947

Clearly Quaid E Azam understood that a Nation could not be built until differences in the minds of people were eliminated and people saws themselves as equal members of a single society regardless of faith or ethnicity.

Perhaps if that spirit was alive today Pakistan would not be afflicted with minor issues and infighting over Shia-Sunni, Barelvi-Deobandi, Ahmedi, and the principles of personal freedom would have given way to building a Nation that was the most glorious one in history. Unfortunately this destiny still awaits the Pakistani race which dreams for justice and equality. Many people continuously deny Quaid E Azam wanted a secular country fearing that Islam will be destroyed by such a move or fearing for their own interests but Quaid E Azam did indeed want a Nation that was Secular and gave equal opportunity to all inhabitants.

People try to deny this but the fact is that this is not a bad thing for us to be ashamed about being Muslims but something glorious in itself that a leader who did so much for Muslims giving them a new homeland and independence still understood the morals of our ancestors because of whom Islam to spread.

Issues caused by the misinterpretation of Islamic Law & resources used to contain them​

The fact that laws created to safeguard Islam are being used for the benefit and self interest of bad people does not do anything great for the image of Islam. A clear example is the blasphemy law, a law that makes an insult to Islam, the Prophet or the Quran illegal and punishable by death. This law has been used against minorities for a long time. However Muslims have fallen victims to this law as well.

An example of how this law is misused was the case of Mohammad Imran who was arrested in Faisalabad for blasphemy on the 28th of October 2007. He was falsely blamed because of a personal argument. After being arrested he was first tortured by the police, then the inmates and later he was placed in solitary confinement without anyone looking after his injuries. He was only released in April 2009 after being declared innocent.

Another example was the framing of Akhtar Hammed Khan, an 81 year old writer and sociologist by business interests and authorities unwilling to let his development work take place in Orangi, Karachi. He had launched a development project on the behalf of the people of Orangi. His project offering real estate loans on good terms and work to improve the condition of women through education, access to employment and family planning was not well liked by these authorities. Thus they decided to book him on false charges with the police under the blasphemy laws. He was later released due to inadequate evidence but the case proves how the law is being used to settle personal scores and disputes.

Minorities have many such stories to share as 60% of all victims who are framed under this law are Non Muslims. The law has become a tool for fanatics, murderers and people seeking to settle personal scores yet the law still hasn’t been repealed due to the fact that militants have some influence on governance. Land disputes or personal quarrels are by far the main reason for people to be booked under this law.

Another such law is the Hudood Ordinance where in a case of Rape four witnesses are required to confirm that a Rape has taken place. This is practically impossible. However the woman who complains that a rape has taken place is often booked for being with another man while the culprits of the rape run free.

Therefore the Hudood Law became a tool in the hands of rapists and today any woman can be raped and when she goes to the police to get justice the Hudood Law can be used to frame her as by claiming that she has been raped she also admits that she has been with another man and committed Zinah. Some figures claim that in the year 1979 there were only 70 women in Pakistani jails. A decade later, in 1988, this figure had risen to 6000 and over 80% of the women in prison were there because of these laws. It is said many more women do not even report rapes in fear of being persecuted due to this law.

Is Pakistan really Islamic?

Better to have a Secular constitution than Islam only in name​

There is no doubt that our leaders found us a land that was a safe haven for Muslims and gave us freedom to make our own decisions without the fear of suffering biased treatment for the faith we followed. However the question today is how much Islam is being followed in the country?

For instance the Quran states “Keep yourselves away from bribes because it is kufr and one who receives them will never smell the scent of paradise”. The fact is in Pakistan taking and giving bribes is so common that even a noble person can hardly live without paying one. Some honourable folk still struggle on but their lives are much more difficult. If a person has money it is a possibility he has given or taken a bribe at least once. Unfortunately the entire bureaucracy is at the forefront of this rot. Justice is sold and witnesses can be bought.

On the other hand while drinking is not allowed and a license is required in order to drink in Pakistan people who want to drink do so with impunity and with no fear of being punished. The law is not even being implemented while if a drunkard happens to get caught a simple bribe wins back the persons freedom. Also while adultery is considered a punishable law under the constitution it is practiced by many people in the country without any fear of punishment. The same goes for many other laws.

The fact is many laws related to Islam exist in Pakistan but they are there only in name. They are either being misused by people for their own interests or they are not implemented and people who commit heinous crimes are allowed to go free because of them without any fear of punishment while the innocent are framed.

The real question for Pakistan today is whether it is sensible to have a false, broken and corrupt “Islamic Republic” in name or it is better to have a secular constitution that guarantees freedom to everyone and ensures that there are no vaguely addressed laws that make a mockery of our Religion which are misused for the benefit of a few criminals.

Why do we fear Secularism? Pakistan Nationalist Association
 
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I am looking forward to some heavy debate on this one... guys what do you think? A secular constitution or an Islamic Republic, that is an Islamic Republic in name only where the corrupt can bypass laws while innocent people languish because of those laws?

We are spending time and resources on minimal issues and infighting and bickering over things like how to pray properly or having painche up while praying while we don't concentrate on main issues. We we live and let live and just make sure we follow ourselves is it not better than trying to impose and in the process creating hurdles? Take the example I gave of Hazrat Ali. Did'nt Islam spread by the freedom it ensured. Take Spain where slaves could automatically get freed by accepting Islam?

I am dying for debate and I really want this topic... sombody open ur mouth... :aah:
And don't give an example of Turkey. The country is not secular if they are forcing someone not to follow their religion. This applies to the headscarf in Universities... telling someone to do something or not do something goes against personal freedom.
 
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I guess we need a separate room here for such debates where only serious debaters are permitted. Open debates usually end ugly.
 
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i accept all the quaid quoting, but i fail to understand where the words "secularism" are written, was quaid fearful to use this words??, he has used the words like islam, islamic, islamic justice, even our objective resolution sates that?? so whats the point really??

islamic republic or secular state, it will not bring an ounce of change in pakistan, corrupt will prosper, what we need are the land reforms and reforms in education system, mass education, awareness etc

the word of quaid

"“The tenets of Islam enjoin on every Musalman to give protection to his neighbours and to the Minorities regardless of caste and creed. We must make it a matter of our honor and prestige to create sense of security amongst them.”"

as he has clearly mentioned that one needs to follow islam, and he has given the example, that islam teaches us this and that, and to protect minorities and treat every religious/ ethnic minority as equal.. true!!
 
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We dont need any ism. We need moderate path which is presented by Islam only.

Its another matter that currently we dont have that moderate path which is essence of Islam rather we have a twisted constitution with every tom and harry inserting own version of Islamic values (which have nothing to do with real Islam)
 
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According to article when Islam allows rights of minorities then why do we need a secular state??

You gave an example of hazrat Ali this was under Islamic rule not a secular state that was....

but in secular states we have decisions like banning of scarfs and minarates..

So I think we should struggle to make it an Islamic state coz Islamic state is far better than Secular state...

Right now we are neither secular nor Islamic it's about question of what we want not what we are... :cheers:
 
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All the examples you have quoted about Pakistan have nothing to do with Islam.... Islam makes us better not worse....

Look you have to follow a rule without twisting it.... if you make a bad out of a good rule that's your fault not the fault of Rule or Law.... So your arguments for secularism proves that no system is good without educating people... whatever system you take into Pakistan it will not work unless you educate your nation..
 
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You dont really understand the roots of secularism.
Secularism was created because wise people were right & religion was proved wrong look at the history of Aristotle Newton Davinci Plato...............
This was right as all of these were greatly upset by narrowminded church priests who take everythinh written in adulterated Bible to be right which though proved wrong.
However, Islam is in no contradiction to science in particular & reason in general. So we dont need to adabt any kind of others governing systems we are as good as gold if Islamic interpretations are done by wise & learned people.
 
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ah... again. why do people quote only those quotes which suit their exact purpose. y not look at the whole picture and then try to make some sense out of it.

should i again quote all of jinnah's quotes on this issue or will you guys simply go to this thread and read urself? http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...ding-jinnahs-mind-build-jinnahs-pakistan.html

now that you have read quotes in the mentioned thread, ill express my views on them. Jinnah wanted a country based on islamic principles. and where ever he talked of islamic principles he actually named them to be democracy, equality and social justice. now if u look at these principles independently, ull definitely think of typical secular state. but no these principles are no alien to islam rather 100% compatible. Jinnah's whole point of mentioning these principles again and again was to tell us that we dont want mullah version of islam in our country but the real islam which means peace.
 
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ah... again. why do people quote only those quotes which suit their exact purpose. y not look at the whole picture and then try to make some sense out of it.

should i again quote all of jinnah's quotes on this issue or will you guys simply go to this thread and read urself? http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...ding-jinnahs-mind-build-jinnahs-pakistan.html

now that you have read quotes in the mentioned thread, ill express my views on them. Jinnah wanted a country based on islamic principles. and where ever he talked of islamic principles he actually named them to be democracy, equality and social justice. now if u look at these principles independently, ull definitely think of typical secular state. but no these principles are no alien to islam rather 100% compatible. Jinnah's whole point of mentioning these principles again and again was to tell us that we dont want mullah version of islam in our country but the real islam which means peace.

Democracy doesn't suit our country & that is it!!
We have got at max 27/100 who are literate & you must also see the definiton of literate according to UNO. I just cannot accept that illeterate people are to make decisions for their country leadership!!. you can urself find people who even dont know who is the founder of this nation when it was built & things rather vital things like that, how can you make donkey=horse!!
When in 1937 elections were held the then viceroy himself declared "Democracy in its worst form..." ( Aysha Jalal footnote )
Democracy therefore cannot be suited to our country; as a pre-requisite you must make your nation capable to have independent decison power.
 
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Democracy doesn't suit our country & that is it!!
We have got at max 27/100 who are literate & you must also see the definiton of literate according to UNO. I just cannot accept that illeterate people are to make decisions for their country leadership!!. you can urself find people who even dont know who is the founder of this nation when it was built & things rather vital things like that, how can you make donkey=horse!!
When in 1937 elections were held the then viceroy himself declared "Democracy in its worst form..." ( Aysha Jalal footnote )
Democracy therefore cannot be suited to our country; as a pre-requisite you must make your nation capable to have independent decison power.

In short we have to first educate the masses for any system to work here... right now let the current system go on....
 
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Democracy doesn't suit our country & that is it!!
We have got at max 27/100 who are literate & you must also see the definiton of literate according to UNO. I just cannot accept that illeterate people are to make decisions for their country leadership!!. you can urself find people who even dont know who is the founder of this nation when it was built & things rather vital things like that, how can you make donkey=horse!!
When in 1937 elections were held the then viceroy himself declared "Democracy in its worst form..." ( Aysha Jalal footnote )
Democracy therefore cannot be suited to our country; as a pre-requisite you must make your nation capable to have independent decison power.

I agree with nightcrawler though not for the reasons he has mentioned. Pakistan needs to formalise army rule as part of its constitution and save itself its blow hot blow cold one sided affair with democracy.

As to why Pakistan fears secularism, the reason is not difficult to fathom. If Pakistan did not, it would still be part of secular India, as would Pakistani muslims and Bangladeshi muslims.

If they had to be secular, why ask for Pakistan in the first place at all?

It is fashionable for the Pakistani elite here to be pro-secular in the Pakistan of today with its miniscule and politically irrelevant minorities.

Would be a whole different kettle of fish if Pakistan had as many hindus and sikhs today, as India has muslims.

That is when their true "secular" nature would be manifested.

Cheers, Doc
 
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Secularism, democracy and other modern progressive ideas are very difficult to implement in a society that is illiterate and uses traditional rules and laws to govern itself. Pakistan could have achieved all this, but the nation's Father died soon after creating, before he could stabilize the political scene.

Jinnah was a modern and tolerant leader, but alas, the series of corrupt leaders along with self-serving military leader ensured Pakistan remained backward and poor.

Unless the nation becomes fully literate and there is a stable democratic government that promotes tolerance, the country has no hope for a brighter future.
 
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