Why do people believe the Universe has no purpose/cause?

[Skull and Bones]

I don't consider the multiverse theory but I do believe there is another body beyond our Universe. I still don't see how that rules out a 'purpose' to our Universe and existence? Do you see what I'm saying?

Yes, i do. But you're yet to define the real interpretation of 'purpose'?

Actually, there are conclusive proof of multiverse theory, just like black hole was first conceived way early in the nineteenth century, while real black hole was first observed in the 70s. It's not the question of whether you believe it or not, it's the question of the stability of the model.

 

[janon]

1) Maybe it is too broad, but I can't define it any more than I can, let me try this:

Can you tell me anything else other than the Universe exists just because it exists? Or I could go beyond that?

2) I confused myself here, you're right regarding nature. I guess I need to rethink that question or try to come up with a more specific and detailed one, because if asked you 'Why do we exist?' , that also is too broad. But, what is specific?

3) I do think there may be a reason to our existence because I'm free to think that. I also have a nature of suspecting that. What I was saying is I can't rule out a reason to our existence because I can't get the 'Why?' aspect answered. So this is why I asked is there something beyond what we are able to comprehend that exists by our definition of existence?

1) Which part of the universe? Different parts of the universe came into existence at different times, and due to different causes. If we go as far back in time as we possibly can, the universe (just before the big bang) was smaller than an atom. There are many ways in which it could have come into existence. (Lawrence Krauss' "A universe from nothing" explains how.) Even today, virtual particles are created from nothing all the time. So are matter-antimatter pairs. So a universe smaller than an atom being formed out of nothing, and then expanding to the present size is certainly possible physically.

But are you asking how the universe formed, or why it did. If the latter, then there just may not be an answer. For example, why is 2 plus 2 equal to 4, and not 7? There is no why there. Whenever we ask "why", we are presuming intention. We are assuming that a mind intended it to happen. It is conditioned in our thought process, and it is only because we already make that assumption, that we ask "why" instead of "how". You are already accustomed to the religious answer that a god made it all for some purpose, which is why you are asking "why". If there is no intent, there is no "why". That is why there is no question like "why is two plus two four". It is not intentional, it just is.

3) Again, you should try to answer or figure out what you mean by "reason for existence", and also why there should be one reason for everybody's existence.

 

[Falcon29]

Yes, i do. But you're yet to define the real interpretation of 'purpose'?

Actually, there are conclusive proof of multiverse theory, just like black hole was first conceived way early in the nineteenth century, while real black hole was first observed in the 70s. It's not the question of whether you believe it or not, it's the question of the stability of the model.

Okay, let's look at this way. I was born because my parents took the necessary actions to create me. I know why I was born, from sexual reproduction. And I can stop at that, unless I keep going back and back further which eventually leads us to...

So the universe was created after the Big Bang, so what created the matter before the Big Bang? How far can we go back?

 

[Skull and Bones]

Okay, let's look at this way. I was born because my parents took the necessary actions to create me. I know why I was born, from sexual reproduction. And I can stop at that, unless I keep going back and back further which eventually leads us to...

So the universe was created after the Big Bang, so what created the matter before the Big Bang? How far can we go back?

Theoretically speaking, one cannot go back in time, and keeping the locality of the universe, matter (stable atoms) was created much later the universe was created.

 

[Falcon29]

1) Which part of the universe? Different parts of the universe came into existence at different times, and due to different causes. If we go as far back in time as we possibly can, the universe (just before the big bang) was smaller than an atom. There are many ways in which it could have come into existence. (Lawrence Krauss' "A universe from nothing" explains how.) Even today, virtual particles are created from nothing all the time. So are matter-antimatter pairs. So a universe smaller than an atom being formed out of nothing, and then expanding to the present size is certainly possible physically.

But are you asking how the universe formed, or why it did. If the latter, then there just may not be an answer. For example, why is 2 plus 2 equal to 4, and not 7? There is no why there. Whenever we ask "why", we are presuming intention. We are assuming that a mind intended it to happen. It is conditioned in our thought process, and it is only because we already make that assumption, that we ask "why" instead of "how". You are already accustomed to the religious answer that a god made it all for some purpose, which is why you are asking "why". If there is no intent, there is no "why". That is why there is no question like "why is two plus two four". It is not intentional, it just is.

3) Again, you should try to answer or figure out what you mean by "reason for existence", and also why there should be one reason for everybody's existence.

1) So the single atom came out of nothing? How do we comprehend this? We can break down the atom and keep saying it came out of so and so until what?
So that means everything was created out of something with an exception of our whole existence? This is unusual, so why can't I question this or ask for a better explanation to it?

2) IMO, both religious and scientific people's make assumptions. I'm looking for the balance here.

3) Because I'm accustomed to believing there is a reason to our existence, but not accustomed to it by religion. I feel this is a natural thought we all have, we try to dig deeper and when it comes to an end we are left at odds.

Theoretically speaking, one cannot go back in time, and keeping the locality of the universe, matter (stable atoms) was created much later the universe was created.

So we really cannot come to conclusions, and we have to make calculated guesses/decisions on what our existence means? To me, that is the greatest challenge of life.

 

[Skull and Bones]

So we really cannot come to conclusions, and we have to make calculated guesses/decisions on what our existence means? To me, that is the greatest challenge of life.

For a specie, existence means thriving of it's similar kinds, and able to survive in harsher environment and make the most of it.

 

[Falcon29]

For a specie, existence means thriving of it's similar kinds, and able to survive in harsher environment and make the most of it.

Well, I my question is broad, but it's a question within a question within another question....we will keep asking 'why'. Let's just say it just is this way. Can I move to my other two questions?

 

[Skull and Bones]

Well, I my question is broad, but it's a question within a question within another question....we will keep asking 'why'. Let's just say it just is this way. Can I move to my other two questions?

Sure, so we're moving from micro perspective to the macro perspective. Nice.

 

[janon]

1) So the single atom came out of nothing? How do we comprehend this? We can break down the atom and keep saying it came out of so and so until what?
So that means everything was created out of something with an exception of our whole existence? This is unusual, so why can't I question this or ask for a better explanation to it?

2) IMO, both religious and scientific people's make assumptions. I'm looking for the balance here.

3) Because I'm accustomed to believing there is a reason to our existence, but not accustomed to it by religion. I feel this is a natural thought we all have, we try to dig deeper and when it comes to an end we are left at odds.



So we really cannot come to conclusions, and we have to make calculated guesses/decisions on what our existence means? To me, that is the greatest challenge of life.

1) Be careful when talking about scientific theories, they have to be very precise. I said that the universe at the time of the big bang was "smaller than an atom", not that it was a single atom. In other words, it was very small and very simple. And as I also said, yes such small and simple things can and do come out of nothing. (Again - read Lawrence Krauss' "A universe from nothing"). And again, you seem to be confusing between "how" and "why". How things happened and why things happened are different questions. The latter may not even be a valid question all the time.

3) You definitely are coming from a religious POV. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are a very religious person and have been so since childhood, have you not? I do not mean that as an insult or in a negative manner - I'm mentioning it because it matters, to expose some flawed thinking exhibitted by many people. As I tried to explain earlier (maybe I did not do a good job), the very fact that you frame the question as a "why" instead of a "how" indicates that there are some preconceived notions in your mind (often perpetuated by religions.)


Also, may I ask how old you are? You don't have to answer, if it you don't like personal questions. I'm not asking that to judge you, only to know how best to try to discuss with you.

Okay, let's look at this way. I was born because my parents took the necessary actions to create me. I know why I was born, from sexual reproduction. And I can stop at that, unless I keep going back and back further which eventually leads us to...

So the universe was created after the Big Bang, so what created the matter before the Big Bang? How far can we go back?

The universe was not "created" after the big bang. In fact, creation itself is a religious idea. The so called "big bang" is simply a description for the very rapid expansion of the universe that happened about 14 billion years back. We cannot (as of now) know what happened in the first few picoseconds, because we don't know the requisite science or math for that. In fact, there may not even be a "before", since time itself began at that instant. (That's very unsatisfying to most people, but perfectly reasonable to a cosmologist.)

 

[Falcon29]

1) Be careful when talking about scientific theories, they have to be very precise. I said that the universe at the time of the big bang was "smaller than an atom", not that it was a single atom. In other words, it was very small and very simple. And as I also said, yes such small and simple things can and do come out of nothing. (Again - read Lawrence Krauss' "A universe from nothing"). And again, you seem to be confusing between "how" and "why". How things happened and why things happened are different questions. The latter may not even be a valid question all the time.

3) You definitely are coming from a religious POV. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are a very religious person and have been so since childhood, have you not? I do not mean that as an insult or in a negative manner - I'm mentioning it because it matters, to expose some flawed thinking exhibitted by many people. As I tried to explain earlier (maybe I did not do a good job), the very fact that you frame the question as a "why" instead of a "how" indicates that there are some preconceived notions in your mind (often perpetuated by religions.)


Also, may I ask how old you are? You don't have to answer, if it you don't like personal questions. I'm not asking that to judge you, only to know how best to try to discuss with you.

1) Point taken, this needs a lot do research but I want a clarification from you. You do believe something can come out of nothing?

3) I wasn't raised to be religious, my family is very moderate and unlike me. I later during my high school period had lots of free time and tried discovering religion but also the scientific aspect of life so I can relate to both. I see it's not an insult, but could I move to my next question? And does me being somewhat religious make my question any more or less credible? I'm a young adult.

The universe was not "created" after the big bang. In fact, creation itself is a religious idea. The so called "big bang" is simply a description for the very rapid expansion of the universe that happened about 14 billion years back. We cannot (as of now) know what happened in the first few picoseconds, because we don't know the requisite science or math for that. In fact, there may not even be a "before", since time itself began at that instant. (That's very unsatisfying to most people, but perfectly reasonable to a cosmologist.)

So you're saying the Universe always existed and just expanded itself? So why are you coming to an conclusion that nothing preceded it or it wasn't created(Or came into existence if that's what you like to call it) if we just don't know(as of yet).

 

[Indischer]

Our intelligence and maturity of scientific inquiry might never uncover a 'purpose' for the Universe. For starters, our reach and clout within the Universe is very limited, and we have no access to what exists outside the ever-expanding boundary of the Universe.

IMO, the Universe neither cares nor abides by human definitions of purpose.

 

[janon]

1) Point taken, this needs a lot do research but I want a clarification from you. You do believe something can come out of nothing?

3) I wasn't raised to be religious, my family is very moderate and unlike me. I later during my high school period had lots of free time and tried discovering religion but also the scientific aspect of life so I can relate to both. I see it's not an insult, but could I move to my next question? And does me being somewhat religious make my question any more or less credible? I'm a young adult.

1) Oh, that's not just my belief, that's demontrated both theoretically as well as experimentally:
Are virtual particles really constantly popping in and out of existence? Or are they merely a mathematical bookkeeping device for quantum mechanics? - Scientific American
Something from Nothing? A Vacuum Can Yield Flashes of Light - Scientific American
Can You Get Something For Nothing? – Starts With A Bang

Yes, things can come out of nothing. By the way, remember that most people have never seen a "nothing" in their lives - real nothing is very, very rare. You are surrounded by matter and/or radiation everywhere. But yes, particles can and do arise from pure nothing all the time. The proof would be way beyond the scope of this website, but there are resources out there.

3) No, it does not make your questions any more or less credible. As I said, I only mentioned it because all of us - you, me and pretty much everybody on earth have been conditioned to approach the question from a religious or quasi-religious POV. The very fact that everybody asks "why" instead of "how" shows that everybody is assuming intent, that a mind (god) intentionally did some things. "Why" is about intent, "how" is about a mechanism. Not everything is intentional, and therefore not everything has an answer to "why".

And I know you are a young adult, for most people that's the only time they ponder these questions. Unfortunately.

So you're saying the Universe always existed and just expanded itself? So why are you coming to an conclusion that nothing preceded it or it wasn't created(Or came into existence if that's what you like to call it) if we just don't know(as of yet).

If we don't know anything through science, that's definitely a possible assumption, is it not? Maybe it existed all the time? After all, that's the answers that religions provide - everything was created by a god/allah/brahma, and that god/allah/brahma always existed. Well that's a non-answer, a non-explanation. In that case why assume the need for a god, simply state that the universe always existed. Why add that additional step? That's just shifting the mystery from how the universe came into existence, to how a god came into existence, and then saying the god always existed. A much better explanation is simply that the universe always existed.

But that's just the answer to the plausibility - as to what really happened, that can only be known through science. As of now, scientists only know what happened during and after the big bang. What happened in the first few moments, we cannot know as of now, because we don't know the required math or physics. Maybe we will never know. But in such cases, it is always better to say we don't know, than to offer non-answers.

 

[Indischer]

@janon How old are you mate? I don't think you're a day older than 30 either.

 

[janon]

@janon How old are you mate? I don't think you're a day older than 30 either.

Hehe, what makes you say that? Do I sound too immature?

 

[Indischer]

Hehe, what makes you say that? Do I sound too immature?

Nope. I see in you the right mix of maturity and temerity that only a late 20s-early 30s guy can possess. Am I right though?