Why Democracy is Shirk and When Can It be Used by Islamic Parties

[A.P. Richelieu]

It is you that know nothing about Quran, I am a Muslim and understand Quran and hadist very well, just give me the Quran verses that become the basis of your ridiculous statement in your previous post......

If you know it, you would recognize the verse.
If you do not know it, you need the reference.
You obviously need to reread it.

I don't have the Quran at hand anyway right now.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

My friend, No. 1 if you have read translation can't justify and enables you to make conclusions while having theoretical bias with Islam. No. 2 According to Holy Quran , only following types of people can understand and get benefit from Quran.

1. A person who knows what's wrong and right , and lives life according to Rules given by Allah , not like animals , which do whatever they like to do
2. A person who believes strongly on existence Allah(God), Angels, Paradise, Hell, Gins etc,
3. A person who show obedience To Allah by doing Prayers
4. A person who speak truth and not a hypocrite.

No.3. You must have good knowledge of Torah, bible and history of Israelites (Bani Israel) , history of prophets from Adam (PBUH) to Mohammad (PBUH)

No.4 While reading Quran you must know its book of God given to us to correct our religion and to remove all those corruptions which are induced in Christianity and Judaism.

I recommend Tafheem Ul Quran whiten by Abu Al Aala Moududi , it gives comprehensive explanation of The Holy Quran. You may find English translation of it .

If we reduce this to be pure logic.
C = { 1,2,3,4 } => A x B = True
C != { 1,2,3,4 } => A x B = False
From this you cannot deduce if A nor B is False or True in the second case.

If I am not a member of {1,2,3,4},
I might be able to understand the Quran, but not get any benefits of understanding,
or I might not be understanding the Quran, but still get benefits for reading it,
or you may want to change your statement on what the Quran says, because it is wrong.

I would of course claim that I would be a member of the 4th group,
but I am depending on that the English translation is correct.

 

[Dr Lee]

If we reduce this to be pure logic.
C = { 1,2,3,4 } => A x B = True
C != { 1,2,3,4 } => A x B = False
From this you cannot deduce if A nor B is False or True in the second case.

If I am not a member of {1,2,3,4},
I might be able to understand the Quran, but not get any benefits of understanding,
or I might not be understanding the Quran, but still get benefits for reading it,
or you may want to change your statement on what the Quran says, because it is wrong.

I would of course claim that I would be a member of the 4th group,
but I am depending on that the English translation is correct.

Please see my No.2, how can you convince a non believer about Existence of , God, paradise, Angels, hell , satin Logically ? I don't think we can. Because they are not prepared for it,

I was trying to explain that if you are a believer and know about true religion of God then you may able to understand the Holy Quran , The Holy Bible and The Holy Torah ,

 

[Indos]

If you know it, you would recognize the verse.
If you do not know it, you need the reference.
You obviously need to reread it.

I don't have the Quran at hand anyway right now.

1.I have understood Quran quite well, there is no such verses exist, and we need to bring context to interpret Quran
2. There are many Quran in internet

What you need to do now is just to say that you are wrong in this matter, it is a character of any great intellectual which is to pursuit the truth only, and disregard any personal opinion that is not backed by reliable fact

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

1.I have understood Quran quite well, there is no such verses exist, and we need to bring context to interpret Quran
2. There are many Quran in internet

What you need to do now is just to say that you are wrong in this matter, it is a character of any great intellectual which is to pursuit the truth only, and disregard any personal opinion that is not backed by reliable fact

It is not from an Internet webpage. Real Book

Facts, not backed up by sources are not neccessarily wrong, just not proven.
In this case the source is the Quran, so anyone can read through it and find it if they have a Quran.
Just harder when the verse is not given.

You claim that no such verse exist, but you give no source proving it is false...
If You were a great intellectual, then You would claim that You have never noticed this in the Quran,
and doubted the existence of such a verse.

This thread is already 4-5 months old, and I am not going to run of and buy an extra copy of the Quran
just to prove this point. Might try to find it in September, but proving it is not a high priority of mine right now.

 

[Chak Bamu]

If You have not read and understood the Quran, why criticize?


I have read it, admittedly only the English translation.

Sir, could you tell me about the translation? Misinterpretation of Quran is a centuries old practice. Some commentaries are deliberately skewed toward specific schools of thought according to the interpreter's preference.

The principle of interpretation established by important Sahaba from the beginning of Quranic scholarship is that each age should interpret Quran according to its conditions and level of knowledge.

 

[Chak Bamu]

My friend, No. 1 if you have read translation can't justify and enables you to make conclusions while having theoretical bias with Islam. No. 2 According to Holy Quran , only following types of people can understand and get benefit from Quran.

1. A person who knows what's wrong and right , and lives life according to Rules given by Allah , not like animals , which do whatever they like to do
2. A person who believes strongly on existence Allah(God), Angels, Paradise, Hell, Gins etc,
3. A person who show obedience To Allah by doing Prayers
4. A person who speak truth and not a hypocrite.

No.3. You must have good knowledge of Torah, bible and history of Israelites (Bani Israel) , history of prophets from Adam (PBUH) to Mohammad (PBUH)

No.4 While reading Quran you must know its book of God given to us to correct our religion and to remove all those corruptions which are induced in Christianity and Judaism.

I recommend Tafheem Ul Quran whiten by Abu Al Aala Moududi , it gives comprehensive explanation of The Holy Quran. You may find English translation of it .

My friend, you are pointing to the beginning of second Surah - Al-Baqarah. Indeed it says so but it is actually a challenge. Also, it says in the 3rd verse that it is Guidance for 'Muttaqeen' (Those who have Taqwa - fear of God). The subsequent verses go on to explain what are the attributes or qualities of such people (who would find Guidance in Quran).

The important thing to remember is that Quran is for everyone. Dr. Jeffery Lang, Associate Professor of Mathematics at University of Kansas, was an atheist when he read Quran and he accepted Islam because he was won over by Quran:

“Painters can make the eyes of a portrait appear to be following you from one place to another, but which author can write a scripture that anticipates your daily vicissitudes?… Each night I would formulate questions and objections and somehow discover the answer the next day. It seemed that the author was reading my ideas and writing in the appropriate lines in time for my next reading. I have met myself in its pages…”

See for yourself here:
Islam – My Choice | US Professor Dr. Jeffrey Lang – How i embraced islam?

He has written books about his experiences "Struggling to Surrender" and "Even Angels Ask: A Journey to Islam in America". I've read both of them and his perspective is both challenging, and refreshing as it should be - coming from an intellectual who understands his culture & his former religion as well as Islam and the dynamics of many issues involved that likes of me do not usually think about.

However, it is important to note that Quran is not for only the people who already believe. It is for everyone. Even if someone does not believe, they still get something out of it.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Sir, could you tell me about the translation? Misinterpretation of Quran is a centuries old practice. Some commentaries are deliberately skewed toward specific schools of thought according to the interpreter's preference.

The principle of interpretation established by important Sahaba from the beginning of Quranic scholarship is that each age should interpret Quran according to its conditions and level of knowledge.

Sorry, but as I said, I don't have access to it for quite some time.

 

[gangsta_rap]

in b4 some euro shouts "Got ist Tot11!!11!"

 

[Dr Lee]

My friend, you are pointing to the beginning of second Surah - Al-Baqarah. Indeed it says so but it is actually a challenge. Also, it says in the 3rd verse that it is Guidance for 'Muttaqeen' (Those who have Taqwa - fear of God). The subsequent verses go on to explain what are the attributes or qualities of such people (who would find Guidance in Quran).

The important thing to remember is that Quran is for everyone. Dr. Jeffery Lang, Associate Professor of Mathematics at University of Kansas, was an atheist when he read Quran and he accepted Islam because he was won over by Quran:

“Painters can make the eyes of a portrait appear to be following you from one place to another, but which author can write a scripture that anticipates your daily vicissitudes?… Each night I would formulate questions and objections and somehow discover the answer the next day. It seemed that the author was reading my ideas and writing in the appropriate lines in time for my next reading. I have met myself in its pages…”

See for yourself here:
Islam – My Choice | US Professor Dr. Jeffrey Lang – How i embraced islam?

He has written books about his experiences "Struggling to Surrender" and "Even Angels Ask: A Journey to Islam in America". I've read both of them and his perspective is both challenging, and refreshing as it should be - coming from an intellectual who understands his culture & his former religion as well as Islam and the dynamics of many issues involved that likes of me do not usually think about.

However, it is important to note that Quran is not for only the people who already believe. It is for everyone. Even if someone does not believe,


they still get something out of it.

Well said, I agree , i was explaining him that a non believer cannot be such knowledgable about The Holy Quran , to issue a Fatawa on political issues as he made in his statement .

 

[Zabaniyah]

Democracy is a god?

 

[nvKyleBrown]

Democracy is a god?

hehe, yeah, its a problem for OP. Do you have a boss? do you do what he says? God! You're going to hell! The only way to pay the bills is to be a shepherd, answering only to your sheep (Oops! God!) Do you do what your wife says? uh-oh! Do you expect your wife to do what you say?! then you are making yourself a god, which is even worse!

 

[Dr Lee]

you bunch of fools

 

[Horseman]

Lets see if you understand it this way, you cant even sight a moon together, forget the Caliphate which isn't even compulsory.

This is another debate some culprits to getting attention misguide to innocent people. Anyhow presidential democracy is close to caliphate. this can be implemented. no?

 

[9876]

Islamic law is supposed to protect minorities + non-muslims, it allows them to live their lives in accordance with the laws of their lands. In recent history where sharia has been implemented this has not happened. If you're unable to implement it correctly then don't implement it all.

Democracy is fair. Compare democratic nations agains 'sharia' nations and the difference is obvious. If you hate democracy so much then get on a plane and go to saudi arabia.

Democracy is shirk?? it is a political system that has nothing to do with religion