Why China might be a better superpower

[Zero_wing]

china better i think Iran would make a better supper power china just make trouble for everybody

 

[Banglar Lathial]

Yes, you are very good at reading crystal balls. You reach deep inside Chinese decision makers' minds. If protecting national interest and preparing for the worst are considered ambition towards "superpower," then so be it, since every nation should do.

Mate, no need to be angry about it.

Building aircraft carriers, Anti-satellite weapons, global navigation satellite system, ICBM, SLBM, thermonuclear bombs, "stealth" fighter jets (following in the footsteps of USA) and many other actions are clear indications that my words are true.

And, what's not true about the Chinese people wanting to be a superpower. Unlike some low IQ nations, however, you don't celebrate prematurely, and adhere to the tactic of "Keep a low profile..." Wasn't that propagated by chairman Deng Xiaoping?

 

[Okemos]

Why does one have to hate people of a different region to be considered not a sell out . I never got that.

Indifference is probably a better attitude, because the former hints at insecurities and the need to be compared all the time.

China shroud compare itself with India, Japan, Arab nations too; not just the West.

Hate? where did I mention hate? I certainly do not hate anybody or I wouldn't be living in the U.S. Were you referring to my mention of "scary looking?" Well, yeah sorry, but people in my region do think yellow hair and blue eyes with high nose and deep eyes are scary looking. You can call them backward or whatever, but it's not hate.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

^^^ When someone makes such claims there's no need to bother with any refutation. And I'm sort of surprised because you always seem to be a rational poster.

I am surprised that you think that post of mine was not rational.

What makes you say that?

Nowhere did I say that it is restricted to China alone, the case is the same all over East Asia. Thus, I can see the trend that as China is "opening up" more and more to the "world" (to the West, actually), it is following in the exact footsteps of its East Asian cousins.

Simply, I can predict almost all of China's social developments by looking at how other East Asian countries have adopted Western cultures and norms.

There's nothing special about my predictive ability regarding this issue. It's merely the fact that China is "copying" its East Asian cousins, who copied the Western world very closely.

Nothing to spite the Chinese, why should I? As I have said clearly, China is close to surpassing the dying USA in GDP, why would I say that if I were to spite the Chinese?

I merely pointed out a crucial ingredient that is lacking in current China. Once that issue is addressed, China can also lay claim to its status as a superpower.

 

[Okemos]

Mate, no need to be angry about it.

Building aircraft carriers, Anti-satellite weapons, global navigation satellite system, ICBM, SLBM, thermonuclear bombs, "stealth" fighter jets (following in the footsteps of USA) and many other actions are clear indications that my words are true.

And, what's not true about the Chinese people wanting to be a superpower. Unlike some low IQ nations, however, you don't celebrate prematurely, and adhere to the tactic of "Keep a low profile..." Wasn't that propagated by chairman Deng Xiaoping?

I am not angry, lol. I just stick to the facts. If China cannot even resolve Tibet issue, if today Uigur criminals can still roam around streets freely killing innocent people and the U.S. has the audacity to accuse China of mistreating them, if wealthy Chinese still want to emigrate, etc. etc. China is far from being super power. However, that doesn't mean China should not build up its defense. This world is not as cuddly as I wish it to be.

 

[Genesis]

Mate, you are just full on rambling now.

When I said that Westerners are worshipped in China, you said that is less and less the case. When I mentioned that any Western looking men are chased by Chinese girls, you now talk about marriage, and Chinese womens' skin colour.

So called "Israeli" refugees actually spend far less than a single desert tribe like Saudi Arabia, can you show us what Saudi indigenous military development (maybe, apart from Camel milk for long desert hauls) can hold a candle to so called "Israeli" refugees' innovations?


EU would be militarily better off than Russia, in a conventional war, ONLY IF it were one country with a unique policy.

EU is not one country. There are too many competing voices to make a coherent, cogent decision on anything.

Likewise, EU would be economically better off than USA ONLY IF it were one country with a unique policy. EU is not a single country.

Whereas, China is a single country that has no unique policy of hers.

All of it is based on "copying". For example, when you build Type 052D destroyers, you name it "Red Aegis". When you unveil plans for a "stealth bomber", you call it a "Red B2".

As for authoritarianism, mate, I don't want you to get killed if you write anything against the government, so I won't push it farther, but just in case you did not know, most developing countries around the world are less authoritarian than China, even the old Chinese dynasties were probably less anti-religion than the Communist party.

As I have said, your Chinese Communist Party is simply a remnant of a copycat of the old Soviet Communist party model, which has been thrown into the garbage can of history in Russia itself.

You also failed to understand the meaning of labour intensive industries led export model (of economic growth).

Mate, wish you all the best, but I think you are losing your cool now, and failing to understand what I am pointing at.


That can happen to anybody when he is raised in an environment where everybody is expected to hold the exact same opinions regardless of its validity. Unless you are exposed to an environment where people can argue about a subject based solely on its merit (or otherwise), you would find it really frustrating when somebody would point out some of the reasons that China is not yet ready to be a superpower (even though Chinese have all the ambitions, maybe rightly so).

China is not ready to be a super power, maybe not even for 2-3 decades, nothing new here. It takes a really long time to be one, doesn't happen over night. Even at current trends, it would still take a decade and more to reach US GDP. By then Chinese per capita would still be about 12-15k, well below developed nations.

So to achieve real economic power it might even take 5 decades and more.

Unique policy what is so unique about US that others haven't done before? Besides, it our policies isn't unique, name another that has the exact same as China. You keep think China uses American or Japanese model, but how can we use their model when we are so different? If I make you train as hard as C Ronaldo, are you going to be as good as him?

Red B2, is a name given by people not the government. The US is the current benchmark for all military to reach. What are we suppose to call it, red fishing boat.

When it's officially out, it will have it's own name. BTW type 52D has it's own name, and it's not red Aegis.

You even know what communism is? Which part of China is communist other than the name? Don't bring religion into this, for centuries relgion is simply a belief system in China with no political connections, but today can you say the same?

See, you even say so yourself China is more Authoritarian and yet, we are copying. How can we be different yet the same. BTW, I don't know what you thinks happens in China, but writing stuff won't get you killed or anything. Nobody cares. Besides, not in China right now.

Not gonna argue GDP anymore cause you seem to think China can somehow use labour to increase GDP past America. You realize they have to make something right? IF we keep making other people's stuff no way we can past them as the design people are always going to earn more.

I was raised in Canada and US by the way. It's just that your reasons are not really reasons. You could have said, China needs time to resolve conflicts, time to improve economy further, time to improve government structure, time to improve military, time to do this and that.

Yet you choose something that has nothing to do with why China can't be a super power now, or anytime soon.

Your reasons communism and copying, and yet you claim not copying of products, but of ideologies? It's as clear as day our ideologies are different. India with it's democracy is close to Western than we are.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

I am not angry, lol. I just stick to the facts. If China cannot even resolve Tibet issue, if today Uigur criminals can still roam around streets freely killing innocent people and the U.S. has the audacity to accuse China of mistreating them, if wealthy Chinese still want to emigrate, etc. etc. China is far from being super power. However, that doesn't mean China should not build up its defense. This world is not as cuddly as I wish it to be.

Of course, you are correct.

Can you imagine that citizens of a 'superpower' will be shipped by their ethnic cousins for the 'flesh trade' to some ASEAN countries?

I can't imagine that happening to British women during the British Empire's heydays, or to Soviet women during the pomp and aura of its prime.

A superpower must offer new ideas, new styles of thought. Its citizens must be self assured and self confident (not afraid of Americans or Westerners like most Chinese citizens are, nowadays).

A country that can offer nothing new to the world can not be considered a superpower. It may be an economic power, an industrial power, but its role and position in the global geopolitical hierarchy (if there is such a unique position for each country) would be subordinate to the ruler of the preceding world order.

 

[Okemos]

Of course, you are correct.

Can you imagine that citizens of a 'superpower' will be shipped by their ethnic cousins for the 'flesh trade' to some ASEAN countries?

I can't imagine that happening to British women during the British Empire's heydays, or to Soviet women during the pomp and aura of its prime.

A superpower must offer new ideas, new styles of thought. Its citizens must be self assured and self confident (not afraid of Americans or Westerners like most Chinese citizens are, nowadays).

A country that can offer nothing new to the world can not be considered a superpower. It may be an economic power, an industrial power, but its role and position in the global geopolitical hierarchy (if there is such a unique position for each country) would be subordinate to the ruler of the preceding world order.

mm I agree in general, but I won't use women as example. Some women love easy money, so I don't blame them. This has nothing to do with their nationality. French women are known as great mistresses, lol, even in its heydays. Oh, we have lots of Russian prostitutes in China now. But that really has nothing to do with Russia. Unlike during British empire days, nowadays, even poor countries have wealthy regions that will attract prostitutes from other countries.

Also I don't know what you meant by 1st sentence. Confused. Are you referring to some prostitutes from NE China caused by mass layoff during privatization of state-owned enterprises. NE China was the industrial base prior to economic reforms. Those people and their women suffered greatly during privatization of SOEs. That's probably the reason why you see most Chinese prostitutes in other countries are from that region, but I would refrain from mocking at them. Hi, everybody got live.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

Unique policy what is so unique about US that others haven't done before? Besides, it our policies isn't unique, name another that has the exact same as China. You keep think China uses American or Japanese model, but how can we use their model when we are so different? If I make you train as hard as C Ronaldo, are you going to be as good as him?

Red B2, is a name given by people not the government. The US is the current benchmark for all military to reach. What are we suppose to call it, red fishing boat.

When it's officially out, it will have it's own name. BTW type 52D has it's own name, and it's not red Aegis.

You even know what communism is? Which part of China is communist other than the name? Don't bring religion into this, for centuries relgion is simply a belief system in China with no political connections, but today can you say the same?

See, you even say so yourself China is more Authoritarian and yet, we are copying. How can we be different yet the same. BTW, I don't know what you thinks happens in China, but writing stuff won't get you killed or anything. Nobody cares. Besides, not in China right now.

Not gonna argue GDP anymore cause you seem to think China can somehow use labour to increase GDP past America. You realize they have to make something right? IF we keep making other people's stuff no way we can past them as the design people are always going to earn more.

I was raised in Canada and US by the way. It's just that your reasons are not really reasons. You could have said, China needs time to resolve conflicts, time to improve economy further, time to improve government structure, time to improve military, time to do this and that.

Yet you choose something that has nothing to do with why China can't be a super power now, or anytime soon.

Your reasons communism and copying, and yet you claim not copying of products, but of ideologies? It's as clear as day our ideologies are different. India with it's democracy is close to Western than we are.

1. Unique policy - USA invented this "global war on terror" to eliminate what it considered was the most pressing challenge to itself (although unsuccessfully and with devastating consequences for tens of millions of people, or more).

What policy has China invented?

Chinese policy on Syria is merely riding on the coattails of Russia. Russia sent naval fleets, China nods. Russia vetoes, China nods. Russia created furore in Western media over talks of sending S-300 to Syria, China is merely an uninterested 'player'.

USA has created a web of proxies around the world. These include different countries toeing their lines, these include different 'authors' and 'think tanks' funded by USA, these included media funded by USA very gently pushing the American agenda into the psyches of unsuspecting masses.

China is probably unique because it is the only space faring nation without any privately owned media. Influencing other countries and cultures is a long shot.



2. You can call it any Chinese name of your choice, I can't speak Mandarin well, I am not Chinese, just do not call it "Red B2", which invokes images of imitation of Americans. You can call it by the Mandarin words for "Stealth bomber". See, even for such a simple issue as a name, you have to seek others' advice (i.e. my advice), or copy from Americans.

This is the issue I am referring to.


3. Which aspect of current China is communist except its name? Its alliance/friendship with North Korea, Burma, Russia, and former Soviet Union members, but exclusion from Western defence pacts (precisely because it is communist).

Its prohibition against Uyghurs during Ramadan from fasting, or for Uyghur children from attending mosques etc is also reminiscent of that decayed ideology of communism (which has been discarded in Russia by now).


Those were just two examples.


4. GDP - You probably did not, or do not want to, understand my point. I merely said that China copied in the footsteps of its East Asian cousins, which copied the West. Your East Asian cousins' economic rise was built on the back of labour-intensive industries requiring low capital and "low technology" (i.e. low technological sophistication of workers, management, and processes).

China is following suit.

And, since you brought it up, why can not China surpass American GDP? I think it is very much possible, China is very close to achieving it already. Another 4 or 5 years, maybe another 7 years, will be needed.

Hasn't China surpassed Japan's GDP following the current model? Why can not you just take one step further and overtake America now? It seems very much possible to me, but again, the future is uncertain.


5. Calm down and think rationally.

All of my statements were based on lengthy observations across time and locations.

The only country (of my interest) where General Motors (an American brand) is in high demand is in China. In Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, or elsewhere, the most popular brands tend to be Japanese.

There were cases where Chinese citizens had built many of their houses, by copying the White House's design.

I can go on and on. The examples are way too many to enumerate.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

mm I agree in general, but I won't use women as example. Some women love easy money, so I don't blame them. This has nothing to do with their nationality. French women are known as great mistresses, lol, even in its heydays. Oh, we have lots of Russian prostitutes in China now. But that really has nothing to do with Russia. Unlike during British empire days, nowadays, even poor countries have wealthy regions that will attract prostitutes from other countries.

Also I don't know what you meant by 1st sentence. Confused. Are you referring to some prostitutes from NE China caused by mass layoff during privatization of state-owned enterprises. NE China was the industrial base prior to economic reforms. Those people and their women suffered greatly during privatization of SOEs. That's probably the reason why you see most Chinese prostitutes in other countries are from that region, but I would refrain from mocking at them. Hi, everybody got live.

I never ever mocked them.

Russian prostitutes abound, AFTER the Soviet Union has collapsed. So you see, it actually reinforces my point.

French, or other Western, girls are easy and cheap (easily 'had' by almost anybody), but they do not have to sell themselves for economic reasons to some distant country. And, the French today are no superpower.

Many Chinese ethnic citizens of Malaysia are involved with human trafficking of Chinese girls.

In conclusion, the Chinese are close to surpassing the USA in GDP, but that alone will not transform it into a superpower unless its polity, its thinktanks, its strategists and its citizens can be more assertive and take an independent stance.

As of now, even Russia (with a GDP 1/4 that of China) is far more independent in geopolitical issues than China, which appeases the West at every opportunity, and much like the Soviet Union, is surrounded by powerful, potential enemies.

 

[Wright]

China used to be a Monarchy, and they abandoned this in favour of Jewish Communism. They don't wear their own cultural clothes as much as they wear Western styles. Their women dont wear head scarves any more.

They wear Shoes and not the traditional Chinese Sandals.

This is why Arabs are far more admirable - they still have their "Emirs" and kingdoms, and they still wear their traditional garb as a casual and business dress. Even their kings do.

Mr jinping is always seen wearing a tie and suit - as opposed to the traditional Kimono

 

[Banglar Lathial]

It's not just that.

Almost any lazy Western bum can go to a major Chinese city like Shanghai, Beijing, Tianjin, Guangzhou or whatever else, and 'enjoy themselves' with multiple Chinese girls at a time, as well. That's the extent to which the general Chinese population adore the West.

Chinese society is also being moulded by the West. The Chinese devour American movies more than they respect their own. The Chinese devour American music, American fastfood brands are all over Chinese megacities, American cars are all the rage, I can go on and on.

Even the foremost destination for Chinese students is American universities. Says a lot.

The foremost destination for Soviet Union students was never the United States, or vice versa.

China is still in its infancy when it comes to producing new paradigms of thought in international affairs, in any field of human endeavour in fact.

 

[Genesis]

1. Unique policy - USA invented this "global war on terror" to eliminate what it considered was the most pressing challenge to itself (although unsuccessfully and with devastating consequences for tens of millions of people, or more).

What policy has China invented?

Chinese policy on Syria is merely riding on the coattails of Russia. Russia sent naval fleets, China nods. Russia vetoes, China nods. Russia created furore in Western media over talks of sending S-300 to Syria, China is merely an uninterested 'player'.

USA has created a web of proxies around the world. These include different countries toeing their lines, these include different 'authors' and 'think tanks' funded by USA, these included media funded by USA very gently pushing the American agenda into the psyches of unsuspecting masses.

China is probably unique because it is the only space faring nation without any privately owned media. Influencing other countries and cultures is a long shot.



2. You can call it any Chinese name of your choice, I can't speak Mandarin well, I am not Chinese, just do not call it "Red B2", which invokes images of imitation of Americans. You can call it by the Mandarin words for "Stealth bomber". See, even for such a simple issue as a name, you have to seek others' advice (i.e. my advice), or copy from Americans.

This is the issue I am referring to.


3. Which aspect of current China is communist except its name? Its alliance/friendship with North Korea, Burma, Russia, and former Soviet Union members, but exclusion from Western defence pacts (precisely because it is communist).

Its prohibition against Uyghurs during Ramadan from fasting, or for Uyghur children from attending mosques etc is also reminiscent of that decayed ideology of communism (which has been discarded in Russia by now).


Those were just two examples.


4. GDP - You probably did not, or do not want to, understand my point. I merely said that China copied in the footsteps of its East Asian cousins, which copied the West. Your East Asian cousins' economic rise was built on the back of labour-intensive industries requiring low capital and "low technology" (i.e. low technological sophistication of workers, management, and processes).

China is following suit.

And, since you brought it up, why can not China surpass American GDP? I think it is very much possible, China is very close to achieving it already. Another 4 or 5 years, maybe another 7 years, will be needed.

Hasn't China surpassed Japan's GDP following the current model? Why can not you just take one step further and overtake America now? It seems very much possible to me, but again, the future is uncertain.


5. Calm down and think rationally.

All of my statements were based on lengthy observations across time and locations.

The only country (of my interest) where General Motors (an American brand) is in high demand is in China. In Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, or elsewhere, the most popular brands tend to be Japanese.

There were cases where Chinese citizens had built many of their houses, by copying the White House's design.

I can go on and on. The examples are way too many to enumerate.

So America became a super power after 9/11. Why do you have to use Syria, as I said China has no interests there. Are you saying Russia isn't strong because it takes no stance on South and East China sea? And also almost no move in the Indian ocean?.

China doesn't have privately owned media? WOW, now I know exactly who I been debating with, I just wasted my time.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

So America became a super power after 9/11. Why do you have to use Syria, as I said China has no interests there. Are you saying Russia isn't strong because it takes no stance on South and East China sea? And also almost no move in the Indian ocean?.

China doesn't have privately owned media? WOW, now I know exactly who I been debating with, I just wasted my time.

How old are you? You wanted examples of 'unique policy' implemented by Americans, I provided examples.

Besides, it is true though, that only after 2001, did the extent of unipolar world order become more pronounced. Prior to that, the world was more stable and less conflict ridden.

Can you name any privately owned Chinese media criticizing the Chinese government and the West? Not People's daily, globaltimes, Xinhua or the others owned by the government, or toeing the government line?

 

[Wright]

It's not just that.

Almost any lazy Western bum can go to a major Chinese city like Shanghai, Beijing, Tianjin, Guangzhou or whatever else, and 'enjoy themselves' with multiple Chinese girls at a time, as well. That's the extent to which the general Chinese population adore the West.

Chinese society is also being moulded by the West. The Chinese devour American movies more than they respect their own. The Chinese devour American music, American fastfood brands are all over Chinese megacities, American cars are all the rage, I can go on and on.

Even the foremost destination for Chinese students is American universities. Says a lot.

The foremost destination for Soviet Union students was never the United States, or vice versa.

China is still in its infancy when it comes to producing new paradigms of thought in international affairs, in any field of human endeavour in fact.

This is a very important point. Soviets never went anywhere- they were not allowed to leave.

This gave them a sense of pride that simply does not exist in China.