Why China isn't bailing out Pakistan Currently?

[MultaniGuy]

Didn't you noticed many Pakistani and chinese members, callingus gangoo, rapi...so and so and calling cow piss xyz.. did you condemn it ?

It was nearly 4 am, i didn't run away, just slept.. im simply saying.. im not member of other forums, so i can't advice them from this forum... any sort of filthy language, abusing on any other is unacceptable.. I guess we are derailing the thread further..

Yeah I condemn it. But do you condemn Indians on Indian forums abusing Pakistanis?

Why don't you condemn those Indian members on those Indian forums here?

Why do you keep evading with excuses that you say you are not a member of those Indian forums?

 

[Abdussamad]

China has actually answered this question in a recent article. It's actually a very mature response from them.

The spokesperson reiterated that as a member of IMF, China supported this organisation in having cooperation with Pakistan and evaluating the situation on the ground objectively and professionally in Pakistan.

“All the projects and financing arrangements are made by the two sides on equal consultations,” he added. The spokesperson said, in fact, judging from the debt structure already released by the Pakistani government, the debt incurred from CPEC accounted for low proportion.

They realize that the IMF can bring fiscal discipline to Pakistan which will be required if we are to pay the Chinese back!

 

[Solomon2]

...Rather surprised that as a American you don't know the date of Kennedy's demise....Do you know of any book by politician or leader to be not self serving? That does not mean it has not offer us a insight.

Hit the books last night. Your pardon: when I referred to Kennedy being assassinated I presumed that Ayub was referring in FNM to an unverifiable private conversation with a now-dead president. That was true when FNM was published but the American account was published ~30 years later in FRUS South Asia 1961-63 and a meeting on July 11, 1961, does contain at least some of the elements you describe - along with some possible linguistic misunderstandings that could partially explain the 1965 fall-out between Pakistan and the U.S.

It's sometimes said that "Americans and British are two people divided by a common language" - because while language can shape thought processes it isn't always definitive in doing so. One, Churchill wrote that Americans set an approach to a problem and derive the necessary action to follow whereas Brits attack problems not just with plans but improvisation - and I think you'll agree with me that Pakistan's approach is much closer to the British than to the American. Two, words, phrases, and locutions that mean one thing in one culture may mean something different or be totally missed in another. I wonder if both things were a factor in this conversation. Too bad there wasn't someone present to translate English to English...

 

[danger007]

Yeah I condemn it. But do you condemn Indians on Indian forums abusing Pakistanis?

Why don't you condemn those Indian members on those Indian forums here?

Why do you keep evading with excuses that you say you are not a member of those Indian forums?

Report option is there.. i use it, whenever needed... am not engaging in debates... i just read and move on...healthy debate, and limited trolling is good but not beyond..i think it's better if we end discussion about it..

 

[MultaniGuy]

Report option is there.. i use it, whenever needed... am not engaging in debates... i just read and move on...healthy debate, and limited trolling is good but not beyond..i think it's better if we end discussion about it..

I just want to know if you condemn Indians abusing Pakistanis on Indians forums?
Yes or No?
Its a simple question.

Otherwise you are a hypocrite.

Stop evading the main question.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Hit the books last night. Your pardon: when I referred to Kennedy being assassinated I presumed that Ayub was referring in FNM to an unverifiable private conversation with a now-dead president. That was true when FNM was published but the American account was published ~30 years later in FRUS South Asia 1961-63 and a meeting on July 11, 1961, does contain at least some of the elements you describe - along with some possible linguistic misunderstandings that could partially explain the 1965 fall-out between Pakistan and the U.S.

It's sometimes said that "Americans and British are two people divided by a common language" - because while language can shape thought processes it isn't always definitive in doing so. One, Churchill wrote that Americans set an approach to a problem and derive the necessary action to follow whereas Brits attack problems not just with plans but improvisation - and I think you'll agree with me that Pakistan's approach is much closer to the British than to the American. Two, words, phrases, and locutions that mean one thing in one culture may mean something different or be totally missed in another. I wonder if both things were a factor in this conversation. Too bad there wasn't someone present to translate English to English...

Yes, I would agree that there is some differance in outlook on both sides of the Atlantic despite the same language. America can to me appear so familiar yet so distant at times. Besides FNM I would strongly suggest you read 'Pakistan Chronicle' by Sir Morrice James, British Ambassador to Pakistan during the Ayub Khan era. It offers excellent insight from British perspective on the inner workings of Ayub Khan's administration.

I read Lorna Doone when I was 6 years old and ever since books have fascinated me. My lust for books grew so strong that by age ten I became a habitual book theif and by the time I left middle school there was a big gap in the school library shelves. That habit continued into the teens and of course this is well before the internet. Today my basement is literally jammed with books gathered over the decades many still stamped 'Property of Leeds Metropolitan Council School Board'.

 

[Solomon2]

Yes, I would agree that there is some differance in outlook on both sides of the Atlantic despite the same language. America can to me appear so familiar yet so distant at times. Besides FNM I would strongly suggest you read 'Pakistan Chronicle' by Sir Morrice James, British Ambassador to Pakistan during the Ayub Khan era. It offers excellent insight from British perspective on the inner workings of Ayub Khan's administration.

...His book is brimming with riveting portrayals of Pakistan’s leaders, of whom the most prominent is Field Marshal Ayub Khan who is shown on the cover with Sir Morrice.

In his judgment, Ayub was personally an honest man but there was “an element of intellectual dishonesty” in the way in which he concealed the real motive for Pakistan to sign military agreements with the US.

- Daily Times, October 1st, 2018
​

More prescient, perhaps, was James' commentaries on Z.A. Bhutto :"a Lucifer, a flawed angel. …Despite his gifts I judged that one day Bhutto would destroy himself. In 1965 I sent a dispatch to Her Majesty’s Government that Bhutto was born to be hanged." I'd love to see this 1965 dispatch to confirm that James really wrote that then or if "born to be hanged" was an after-the-fact manufactured memory.

James also confirms something I guessed years ago, that Ayub had stopped listening to his generals about military matters and succumbed to Bhutto's snake-oily advice.

 

[khail007]

Nothing so specific. Rather, look at the relationship over the decades: Pakistan, at America's begging bowl since independence, has used U.S. aid not to the betterment of its people but to secure, enrich, and glorify its self-appointed ruling classes through economic concentration and military conflicts that Pakistan itself initiated.

Here also nothing specific, only a quote from typical arrogant mind which thinks they are the masters.
What you written is a way how US lure financially weak countries to trap for her interests.
Your time of violence in the world is over, already surrendered to Talibans after 17 years of worthless beating on their hands.
Though I am very much agreed with you that sooner the Pakistan will get rid of US influence the more it will be better for Pakistan and it's people.

 

[Solomon2]

Here also nothing specific, only a quote from typical arrogant mind which thinks they are the masters.
What you written is a way how US lure financially weak countries to trap for her interests.

Do you enjoy the counter-examples of Cuba and North Korea?

Though I am very much agreed with you that sooner the Pakistan will get rid of US influence the more it will be better for Pakistan and it's people.

In the short run it will become a lot harder for Pakistanis, I guess.

 

[Solomon2]

What you written is a way how US lure financially weak countries to trap for her interests.

Another thought occurs: back in the 19th century much of the capital needed for American development was provided by Dutch and British investors. One state, Mississippi, renowned for its agricultural fertility, defaulted on its bond obligations. By the time the civil war started Mississippi was in economic decline. It has never really recovered.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Do you enjoy the counter-examples of Cuba and North Korea?

In the short run it will become a lot harder for Pakistanis, I guess.

There is China and Russia. Think again! There is also EU as well!

 

[Salahuddin Ayyubi]

Imran Khan is a pro western. He still cling onto hold that western world will bring better to Pakistan. He is the one going for IMF instead of China for loan.

So by your logic, almost all PM of Pakistans history were pro Western considering how most of them went to the IMF. Stupidity is a double edged sword. Try thinking next time.

 

[khail007]

Do you enjoy the counter-examples of Cuba and North Korea?

In my opinion, apart from what American thinks, I consider Cuba, North Korea, Iran and most of all Vietnam as the iconic symbol of resistance against mother of evil's bullying and aggression and now soon one more will be added.

 

[nahtanbob]

In my opinion, apart from what American thinks, I consider Cuba, North Korea, Iran and most of all Vietnam as the iconic symbol of resistance against mother of evil's bullying and aggression and now soon one more will be added.

very few pakistanis go to cuba, north korea
many pakistanis queue up to visit American poodles ranging from saudi arabia to UK

 

[khail007]

very few pakistanis go to cuba, north korea
many pakistanis queue up to visit American poodles ranging from saudi arabia to UK

Agreed, leave KSA aside, that is our religious center. In any way, Pakistan does not belong to USA, though the corruption marred governments in Pakistan always tried to maintain that unnatural and unholy alliance. So that alliance give way to naturally more preferred setup. I myself, will prefer to visit China/Russia rather than USA.