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Why China Is Selling Submarines to Pakistan ?

Is your freedom and sovereignty in peril? Or is it a conspiracy spun by your defense establishment as an excuse to buy more toys and to stay relevant in Pak society with the 'Indian threat' bogey?

It is a 'Defence Forum'. Views on such matters are exchanged. You did not come here as 'Aman ki Asha' ambassador right?

Looking at how India treats its neighbours it is no surprise that necessary measures should be in place to safeguard our sovereignty. Recent threats to Nepal for passing its constitution are enough to tell us that we can not slack on our security.
 
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Pakistan needs nuclear weapons capable subs for completing a nuclear triad. Moreover, our old subs needs retirement now.
 
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The whole article revolves around why China supplied subs to pakistan but I could not find anything which shows any interest of pakistan in getting the Sub.
Its nothing new, the chinese policies is to make India indulge with the pakistan so to relieve herself from the tibet border from the india because she have much more important and greater threat in the west to deal. Its more of the tacktics which China is playing it against India and pakistan is just one part of it.

Tacktics have its counter tactics and for the India it means it have to increase its ASR capability which could be easily atainable and which was in dire lacking for IN.
so let me get this straight here. china is arming pakistan so that it would keep india busy so china can get tibet? doesn't china have tibet already!

SP
 
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You are free to make alliance with anyone, but ensure not to get left alone when you need the alliance support. You know, history is a very good teacher.



China will never ever participate with you in case of Indo Pak war, but I like your confidence.



If you are really looking for some kick a$$ naval hardware. Spend some more and go for descent western subs, not the Chinese tin cans.


No the Chinese will not intervene. But they'll supply us with the weaponary needed to defeat the goblins and ornicks from our eastern border.
 
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so let me get this straight here. china is arming pakistan so that it would keep india busy so china can get tibet? doesn't china have tibet already!

SP

Its Chinas way to show India that they are not in their league. :D
 
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You are free to make alliance with anyone, but ensure not to get left alone when you need the alliance support. You know, history is a very good teacher.



China will never ever participate with you in case of Indo Pak war, but I like your confidence.



If you are really looking for some kick a$$ naval hardware. Spend some more and go for descent western subs, not the Chinese tin cans.
First of all after Bangladesh we learnt our history this time Uncle Sam will teach you history :)

Secondly we can fight our wars like fought in the past .

Thirdly if the subs are Tins or Junks then Indian need burnol ?
 
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we Indians should not worry about the 8 subs,after all we have a huge navy with latest tech to detect and destroy these subs.If we start worrying about these subs whats the point of having such a large navy. Only thing we should be looking at is how to send a message to china,start sharing nuclear tech and few missile tech with viatnam,they will get the message that we do can play the game.

Rest is all irrelavent.
 
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Bro translate please,no one understands what you wrote.no chinese only english
this is Google translated.

You know, we always put your rhetoric when
these Indians look at entertainment news.
Obviously, your self-confidence greatly inflated,
OK, 8 艘 AIP submarine type 039B constitute a
threat to you, your strong anti-submarine
capability, the Indian Ocean are you in India,
right? By the way, I want to collusion Vietnam?
Useless, if you yourself strong enough, you
need to draw anyone help? Also nuclear
technology and missiles? We only focus on
more advanced than us, as India and Vietnam,
bluntly said, and China is far worse compared
to you. India can hold expansion of
psychological confrontation to treat Pakistan
and China, but you have to answer for the
consequences!
 
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China is selling because Pakistan is acquiring them to enhance it's nuclear triad. !!!
We will get second strike capability. Even if we are doomed and land is turned into nuclear waste, then still we have something to pose serious threat through ocean.
Also it can show good resistance and to demolish their plans of blockade in case of war.
 
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Revealed: Why China Is Selling Submarines to Pakistan
Does the sale represent a step in China’s possible ambitions to have a toehold in the Indian Ocean?

As previously covered by The Diplomat, Pakistan announced earlier this year that it has agreed to purchase eight modified Type 41 Yuan-class diesel-electric submarines from China. These boats will provide Islamabad with much-needed Anti-Access/Area Denial (A2/AD) capabilities against the Indian Navy in case of war. This would be especially useful in case of an Indian blockade of Pakistan’s coast and could give New Delhi grounds to pause before deploying its planned new aircraft carrier, the INS Vikrant.

A Yuan-class submarine is undoubtedly a great piece of kit. It is China’s first class of submarines to incorporate an indigenously designed- and constructed Air-Independent Propulsion system (AIP), giving it a cruise speed of 18 knots and an operational range of 8,000 nautical miles. Although the export version of the Yuan, named the S-20, does not automatically come fitted with the AIP, Pakistan has apparently been able to secure it for its subs. Furthermore, the Yuan is integrated “with advanced noise reduction techniques including anechoic tiles, passive/active noise reduction and an asymmetrical seven-blade skewed propeller.”

Combined with the AIP, this makes the Yuan-class the quietest non-nuclear sub in the PLAN. Furthermore, the Yuan has an impressive set of teeth. Aside from six tubes firing standard 553mm torpedoes, it is equipped with the YJ-8/8A Anti-Ship Cruise Missile (ASCM). While this weapon only has a maximum range of between 30-42 km, there are plans to equip the Yuans with the YJ-18 ASCM. These missiles have a reported range of 220 km and, represent a real A2/AD “force multiplier” for the Yuan. Whether Pakistan will attempt to acquire these missiles, or opt to go for another option (such as their indigenously produced Hatf VII Babur) is unknown.

The sale raises one crucial question: why is China selling Pakistan these subs? There is undoubtedly a commercial aspect to this transaction (it is unknown how much Pakistan will pay for these boats, although it is certainly in the multi-billion dollar range). However, one potential reason which is worrying analysts in New Delhi is that this represents a step in China’s possible ambitions to have a toehold in the Indian Ocean. Without opening the can of worms that is the “String of Pearls” debate, it’s worth looking at this possibility.

Here are the facts: Firstly, the Indian Ocean is important for China for a range of reasons. The amount of Chinese sea-borne trade which passes through the Indian Ocean sea-lane is staggering. These sea-lines of communication (SLOCs) represent a lifeline for the Chinese economy, not least in terms of imports of natural resources, especially hybrocarbons, and exports, in terms of manufactured goods. Any naval strategist worth his salt has read Alfred Thayer Mahan, and will immediately recognize the importance of securing a trading state’s SLOCs. China is no exception.

Secondly, China has recently deployed submarines to the Indian Ocean. (This, incidentally, included the visit of a Yuan-class boat to Karachi.) According to Beijing, these are primarily there to participate in the ongoing anti-piracy campaign in the Gulf of Aden. While this is at least partially true, it is also likely that they are conducting exercises, surveys, and perhaps even combat patrols which can be useful for future operations in the Indian Ocean. Thirdly, Beijing does care about its image and is “realistic” about its power-projection capabilities. According to a recent US Naval War College report, it’s unlikely that China will construct overseas bases in the same way that the United States or France have in the near future in fear of alarming other stakeholders and overstretching naval resources needed closer to home. Finally, China is a long way from the Indian Ocean, and Pakistan is its closest partner in the neighborhood.

Even if its subs can stay at sea for months without refueling at a time, its crews can’t. Having a well-fitted anchorage close to a submarine’s intended area of operations makes it much easier to rotate crews, take on fresh supplies, and carry out maintenance. The PLAN has already called on ports in Oman, Djibouti, and Aden during its anti-piracy campaigns in the Gulf of Aden. However, this has so far only included surface vessels. Submarines often require more specialized facilities to function effectively. Locating a resupply place (not base) in the friendliest state in the area makes sense.

A Pakistani naval facility which already berths compatible subs sounds like a good fit for such a “place.” It would remove the need to permanently station a large number of personnel and equipment abroad, while providing adequate maintenance facilities for the sort of routine repairs that submarines unavoidably need in order to function smoothly over long periods of time. This wouldn’t represent the first time this kind of arrangement has occurred. For example, the British Oberon-class was used by several other allied states during the Cold War, including Australia and Canada. The fact that these navies operated the same class of vessels facilitated maintenance during exercises and visits.\


Revealed: Why China Is Selling Submarines to Pakistan | The Diplomat
Is the 8 or may be 12 S-20P will be free of cost?

Pakistan will go for a cruise missile with at least 1500 KM range with these submarines. The paper talk about submarine I am pretty sure Pakistan will soon go for destroyers

I think PN might be getting free of cost about 4 Type 54s which have similar SAM's like F-22P.
 
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I think its mainly because Pakistan has more stronger relationship with China and etc than with it's neighbors i think. After all, china and russia are the only two countries that had vetoed against NATO's intervention in Syria in turning that nation into another Libya or Iraq.
 
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You are free to make alliance with anyone, but ensure not to get left alone when you need the alliance support. You know, history is a very good teacher.



China will never ever participate with you in case of Indo Pak war, but I like your confidence.



If you are really looking for some kick a$$ naval hardware. Spend some more and go for descent western subs, not the Chinese tin cans.

Yep,.. with both side loaded with nuclear arsenal,.. no1 is going to join in the suicide, neither from Pak nor from Indian side..
 
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8 Submarine is a good number. Pakistan shall have a reasonably good sub fleet when it gets the dilivery of these submarines.
 
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