Why can't a good Muslim be a good American/British?

[Raja.Pakistani]

It is not about peaceful expressions but about the CONTENTS of those expressions. muslims are hostile towards those signs .

If they were doing anything against the law they would have been arrested but again you are showing the same attitude which i am talking about..looking at 10 individual who have some weird banner but neglecting the million who are living in peace with others. again their insult is for those who insult their belief..for example those who burn their religious scripture

 

[Vinod2070]

What are your thoughts on the topic?

It seems you accept that they can't be good citizens of those countries. Why?

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

What are your thoughts on the topic?

It seems you accept that they can't be good citizens of those countries. Why?

Dude i asked question to get your opnions and thoughts and my thoughts are there in my replies . Read them

 

[Vinod2070]

My thought is that it is possible. It needs willingness to be open and respectful to the host culture while retaining your own.

 

[pmukherjee]

It is not about peaceful expressions but about the CONTENTS of those expressions. Put it this way...How would you like it if I express myself thus: 'I am going to rape your daughter.' Did I DO anything other than verbalizing what I want? But if you feel justified in hostility towards me for merely expressing something so morally outrageous, then you should have no problems understanding why so many non-muslims are hostile towards those signs that say those dreadful things.

If you had read my complete post instead of flying off at a tangent after reading the first line, you would have realised that what you said was not much different from what I had already said. The only difference is that you said it much the way these protesters crying Slay, behead and butcher, were trying to make their point. Anyway, I will not verbalise the way you have just done to make the point I had already made.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

It seems you accept that they can't be good citizens of those countries. Why?

It seem that i am suggesting they can be good citizens of these countries even if they are devout muslims , christian or hindus

Now you tell me how can one be a good citizen? What rights a citizen should have ? What should be the responsibility of citizens ? should you give up your religion/culture for sake of nationality to prove your loyalty with country of your residence?
Should you give up your heritage, culture, identity, dress, food to prove yoursef a good british , Canadian or American?

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

. The only difference is that you said it much the way these protesters crying Slay, behead and butcher, were trying to make their point. Anyway, I will not verbalise the way you have just done to make the point I had already made.

My question is how should you protest against those who mock your religion or burn your religious scripture?

I am sure peoples doing protest in pictures are not mocking british peoples but they are insulting those who did mocked their religion.

 

[Mike2011]

From what I've seen, Muslims in America seem to be better integrated than Muslims in the UK.

% matters. As long as they are 1-3 % population. Peace loving people. once reaches 10% problem starts.


http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=129029063802831&topic=400

 

[Vinod2070]

It seem that i am suggesting they can be good citizens of these countries even if they are devout muslims , christian or hindus

Your thread topic doesn't convey it. May be that was intended.

Now you tell me how can one be a good citizen? What rights a citizen should have ? What should be the responsibility of citizens ? should you give up your religion/culture for sake of nationality to prove your loyalty with country of your residence?

Should you give up your heritage, culture, identity, dress, food to prove yoursef a good british , Canadian or American?

I don't think any of this should be necessary. However, those protests that we saw on page 1, calling for worse than 9/11 attacks on the country that let them in, calling for their deaths openly, crying "UK, UK, 9/11 on the way", calling their returning soldiers "war criminals", attacking their religion in their own country etc. would definitely not cut it.

Then the religious places spreading hatred against the host communities won't help either, like that dispatch series showed. Attacks on their mass transport can't help either.

I know you will say they are in small numbers. They are still able to do the damage.

 

[pmukherjee]

My question is how should you protest against those who mock your religion or burn your religious scripture?

I am sure peoples doing protest in pictures are not mocking british peoples but they are insulting those who did mocked their religion.

Buddy, what burns into the consciousness of the people watching their TV in the evening after a busy day at work are the visuals of bearded and fierce looking men with posters saying, 'SLAY', 'BEHEAD' and 'Butcher'. Only that part remains, the message if there was one is lost irrevocably.

Hatred breeds hatred, violence breeds violence. Even threats of violence elicits violence. To my mind, it is those and similar words which promise unbridled and barbaric violence and reprisal that cause the message to be lost in translation.

 

[RazorMC]

You are right about spreading awareness through peaceful demonstrations. That is necessary and is a recognised methodology in every democracy. However, by using words like 'slay', 'behead' and 'butcher', aren't the demonstrators losing the whole plot? Imagine the visual effect such posters will have on a public reeling under severe economic constraint for years and already wary of unchecked immigrations which threaten to take away more jobs from them? Is the awareness being generated by such slogans really the one that the demonstrators wish to convey?

That is why I didn't support the words, only the process.

My choice is the word 'prosecute' (for hurting more than a billion people around the world). There is a simple process of making people pay for their crimes. If they can prove (as I'm sure they can) that someone has hurt people's emotions and sentiments and caused emotional problems, the courts will take the necessary actions.

And you're right. Wrong words make matter worse.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Y
I don't think any of this should be necessary. However, those protests that we saw on page 1,
I know you will say they are in small numbers. They are still able to do the damage.

Again we are discussing one pic of few individuals lol...as far as i read the banner they are not mocking the common peoples or country but are insulting those who are mocking islam ..obviously you cannot give flowers to someone who burn your religious scriptures.

what damage?

again you did not answer my questions in previous post

 

[Vinod2070]

Again we are discussing one pic of few individuals lol...as far as i read the banner they are not mocking the common peoples or country but are insulting those who are mocking islam ..obviously you cannot give flowers to someone who burn your religious scriptures.

what damage?

again you did not answer my questions in previous post

I mentioned much more than one pic!

And some of these people mock the religion of the host societies all the time. Did you see the programme by that CNN Annapour women on some Briton Muslim convert guy? Such people can never help.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

Again we are discussing one pic of few individuals lol...as far as i read the banner they are not mocking the common peoples or country but are insulting those who are mocking islam ..obviously you cannot give flowers to someone who burn your religious scriptures.

what damage?

again you did not answer my questions in previous post

Yes but the difference is that such kind of "insults" - calling for beheadings and retributional attacks only serve to portray an image of muslims as barbaric, medieval minded and backward. There is an element of circumstance in all this.

As of today , westerners are affected and paranoid when any incident or occuring is linked to terrorism or the reference to 9/11 or 7/7 . Westerners have their faults too and they stop analyzing in frenzy when these topics are brought up. Its evident when Bush was able to re-elect himself by again and again injecting paranoia into the Average American voter....Sarkozy, Cameroon and Merkel retain their support base by refering to stricter measures against immigrants . They portray the image of an extremist Islam as well .....

Even if this may not be morally right these tendencies should atleast be understood by protestors . By refering to attacks and beheadings they are only aggravating the situation and rubbing salt on the wounds of the westerners, feeding their paranoia in short.

Now suppose instead of these slogans , their methods of protest were to be something like - A mass boycott ,banners saying " we demand Justice " , " Respect for all religions " etc . A crusade against defamation, a number of Civil suits by prominent Muslims against the concerned Pastor , A number of articles by Muslim journalists about an attack on their culture and values published in prominent newspapers, a civilized social campaign ....

These are the kinds of protests the west would recognize and appreciate and respond too as well. Burning tyres, riots , other forms of placard holding marches , threatening physical violence are the kinds of protest which work in our part of the world maybe ...in India , Pakistan , BD , Sri lanka ....but not in the west.

Since the concerned people reside in the west they should adopt "western " methods of protest....

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

^ Dude I agree with everything you said and trust me majority Muslims protested in peaceful and civilised manner the ways you mentioned in your post but as i said before peaceful majority and peaceful protest don't get the attention of media and peoples but you will see the pictures of few angry emotional individuals with weird slogan in every single newspaper.

Again question is : Did pastor got the punishment for his proactive hate crime? Did hate and bigot act of pastor was according to western principles? agree angry emotional reaction is wrong but the cause of this reaction need to be eliminated as well