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Why Boeing's Dreamliner pitch to Pakistan is a big win for both jetmaker, airline

Well , technical issues are always part of Airplane over all maintenance

Trading 777 (5 Units) with (8-11 Units) moves the PIA airline in line with latest generation Civilian Planes and that is a tremendous boost to the prestige for the plane.

Also PIA do have their own maintenance , workshops for any minor issues these can be looked after in no time

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Whats in it for Boeing?

1- Pakistan was the first customer for 777 generation craft , so it is doing good customer service by offering a nice incentive for Upgrade to 787.

2- 787 is the latest plane , Best fuel economy ratio , and PIA has traditionally complained about
loses due to fuel so it works for PIA and also it help introduce a Eco friendly plane

3- More sales , with first batch of 8 planes , chances are Pakistan will order another 5-10 planes down the road , so it is good business

4- Pakistan Airline Engineering is more acustomed to keep a high end plane flying with no issues vs lets say a cheap airline some where else on planet who have no engineering department


What in it for PIA?
1- New panes
2- Latest generation exposure
3- Chance to deliver high end service to new customers keep old ones happy
4- More planes , More routes , more future business with Boeing

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Come to PAPA
:cheers:

8 New planes > 5 planes

Plus full cooperation with Maintenance
 
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Majority of PIA flights are short hauls in Asia and Middle East.
But 787 poor reliability is of concern... may be our jigaru engineering can make it work..PIA have not had an aircraft crash for years!
 
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Well PIA has been lucky to have tremendous Engineering Department to do great amount of security checks on the plane so that is our big advantage for success with the plane. Plus I find it assuring that Boeing wants to cooperate with us to make sure these planes are routinely maintained.

  • Minor Electrical issues (Yes these happen now and then)
  • Hydraulics and other components are checked by Engineering in regular tune ups
  • Some issues with batteries (I think this was resolved as judging by many posts online
  • Few cracks on window here or there happen occasionally

Most issues are fixable , and in any case brand new plane comes with Warranty 5-10 years or more.

It is Boeing so it is a quality plane just needs a proper Engineering Department for maintain this machine

All planes in world have some minor tune ups here and there , most important item is reliability of Engine & Flight and the Dreamliner has had no accidents

:smitten:


PIA :pakistan::usflag:


If Ethopia airlines can't run the plane engineering , is it plane's faul?
If polish airline can't maintain a plane do they have experience in that sector?
 
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also a bad idea due to troubles with exploding batterries and safety record of the new jet
https://defence.pk/threads/dreamlin...-india-bought-the-troubled-boeing-787.329793/

The battery issue with the 787 has been resolved for some time now. The US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has given it a clean chit:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/03/19/faa-boeing-787-dreamliner/6604883/


Components that go into 787 are made all over the world, including India. Doesn't mean they are buying the aircraft for that reason.
Totally agrees with you. 787 has not been at its best. Continuously having issues starting from 2011 till now. Its project is in Loss. The availability rate at any given time is not confirm also.

REASONS FOR NOT INDUCTING 787 Dreamliner into PIA

Here’s a timeline of problems the Dreamliner has experienced over the last five years. I am not mentioning Pre- Launch Problems here as normally those occur in almost all Projects.

POST - LAUNCH PROBLEM's

Feb. 6, 2012: Boeing finds a manufacturing problem in the fuselage section of some Dreamliners.
July 23, 2012: ANA has five aircraft repaired after discovering a problem inside the Rolls-Royce engine.
July 28, 2012: A Dreamliner suffers an engine failure on the ground at the Boeing plant in Charleston. An investigation is announced by U.S. authorities.
Sept. 5, 2012: A hydraulic problem inside an ANA 787 causes the pilot to abort takeoff. White smoke is seen billowing from the aircraft.
Oct. 4 2012: An engine problem onboard an Air Bridge Cargo 747 in Shanghai prompts General Electric (NYSE:GE) to recommend the inspection of GEnx engines, which are used on some 747 and 787 aircraft.
Dec. 5, 2012: A report of fuel leaks prompts the FAA to order the inspection of all 787s.
Jan. 7, 2013: A fire starts on an empty Japan Airlines (TYO:9201) 787 at Boston Logan International.
Jan. 8, 2013: An ANA 787 is grounded after a crack in the windshield is found. Also, a JAL flight is forced to cancel after engineers discover a fuel leak.
Jan. 8, 2013: A Japan Airlines (JAL) 787 experienced a fuel leak, and its flight from Boston was canceled.
Jan. 9, 2013: United Continental Holdings Inc. (NYSE:UAL) discovers faulty wiring near a battery on six of its aircraft.
Jan. 11, 2013: Another Japan Airlines aircraft is found to have a fuel leak.
Jan. 13, 2013: Japan’s Transport Ministry launches an investigation after a third leak is discovered onboard a JAL aircraft.
Jan. 16, 2013: An ANA flight from Tokyo to Ube, makes an emergency landing after a burning smell is detected in the cabin and a warning light comes on. ANA and JAL ground all their 787s, and aviation authorities worldwide order the grounding of all Dreamliners. Boeing halts all deliveries.
June 2, 2013: A sensor pressure detects overheating on one of its 787s.
June 23, 2013: United Airlines makes an emergency landing after a problem is discovered with the braking system.
July 12, 2013: An empty Ethiopian Airlines 787 develops a fire at London's Heathrow airport, which shuts down the entire airport temporarily. The fire was caused by a faulty battery.
July 18, 2013: A maintenance message onboard a JAL flight alerts to a fuel pump error.
July 22, 2013: An electrical panel grounds a Qatar Airways 787.
July 24, 2013: An investigation is launched after an oven overheats aboard an Air India flight.
July 26, 2013: Two ANA-operated Dreamliners are found to have faulty battery wiring, the same problem that caused the fire at Heathrow.
July 27, 2013: United Airlines discovers a problem with an emergency beacon.
Aug. 14, 2013: A fire extinguisher fault affecting three ANA airplanes, which was caused by a supplier assembly error.
Aug. 27, 2013: A problem with slats (extensions of the leading edge of the wing deployed, like the trailing-edge flaps, during takeoff and landing for added lift) forces a JAL 787 to turn back to Tokyo.
Sept. 19, 2013: A United Airlines 787 develops similar flaps problems and is forced to declare an emergency and land in Anchorage, Alaska.
Sept. 28, 2013: Norwegian Long Haul decided to take one of its two 787s out of service after the two aircraft broke down on more than six occasions in September.
Sept. 28, 2013: Technical problems with a transponder prompt a LOT Polish Airlines flight to make an emergency landing in Iceland.
Oct. 9, 2013: Electrical problems caused failed lavatories and the failure of in-flight anti-ice systems on a JAL aircraft, which returned to San Diego.
Nov. 16, 2013: A British Airways flight experiences hydraulic failure.
Dec. 20–22, 2013: Norwegian Long Haul experienced technical problems keeping two of its three 787 aircraft grounded at Fort Lauderdale airport and delayed six flights.
Jan. 14, 2014: Full Japan Airlines Dreamliner fleet grounded after more battery problems.
Jan. 19, 2014: Air India flight loses all transponders.
Jan. 19, 2014: A China Southern 787 receives multiple system messages, including flaps, nose gear landing, nose gear position, doors and brakes.
Jan. 21, 2014: A Norwegian Air Shuttle 787 experienced a fuel leak which caused a 19-hour delay to a flight from Bangkok to Oslo.
Feb. 5, 2014: All management computers fail aboard an Air India flight.
March 5, 2014: Cracks discovered on wings of 787s in production.
Sept 24, 2015: Indian media reported that an Air India 787 (VT-AND) had been grounded since January 2015 and had been scavenged for parts due to their lack of availability. Air India's aircraft engineers' body advised against accepting further deliveries until Boeing resolved reliability issues.
March 4, 2016: Ethiopian Airlines 787-8 registration ET-ASH from Addis Ababa to Rome, had its nose gear collapse. A flight attendant received minor injuries and the aircraft was damaged.
April 22, 2016: FAA issued an airworthiness directive following a Jan. 29 incident in which a General Electric GEnx-1B PIP2 engine suffered damage and non-restartable power loss while flying at an altitude of 20,000 feet.

Conclusion: PIA needs a reliable aircraft which should have a dispatch reliability of atleast 99 % or above like 777. If Boeing can't provide that then look someplace else.

Something to consider for immediate future. Emirates is retiring 50 planes by 2018 starting from 26 in this year. The average industry retirement age is 25 years and that of Emirate fleet after retiring these planes will be 15.7 years. PIA can check these and if some of them have life left in them then buy those fly them for another 5-10 years.

P.S: The letter of Boeing to PM is totally a Joke as the PM of a country don't decides which plane to buy. So, since 787 program is facing Losses and they are desperate to sell more then "Daal main kuch Kala hay". If as per the letter we need to add charm for Privatization then why not buy A350 / A330 / 777X.

:hitwall:

Again you publish this nonsense list. List any new aircraft and it will have a list of problems listed above. Regardless, even with the problems, the order book for the 787 is a healthy one.

Orders: 1161
Deliveries: 445

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_787_orders_and_deliveries

If the 787 is a problem, would there this many orders and these many deliveries made so far? There may be reasons to reject this aircraft, but not because there's some intrinsically wrong with it.
 
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Apart from the battery issues the Rolls Royce engines used by 787 are prone to engine failures due to the fatigue cracking of turbine blades. Only a week ago Japan's biggest airline, ANA, grounded all 100 Dreamliners in its fleet because of incidents of engine failure. Although hopefully Boeing fixes the usses, we need to be careful.. As of now there are three variants of engines with the 787 - RR Trent 1000. RR Trent 1000 TEN, and General Electric GEnx. Its the Trent 1000 that has been causing all the problems while the 1000 TEN is in testing phase. Lets see which engine comes with 787 planes.Besides engine issues are not of Boeing, but of Rolls Royce, Pakistani engineers prefer General Electric, so expect GE-NX coming with 787's delivered to Pakistan, not Trent 1000's. GEnx is a way better choice than the Trents because General Electric has been working with Boeing for eons and are their primary engine provider.
 
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What other new Aircraft can PIA get? Seriously, its either that or 777. Forget the A380; its a four engined aircraft and the A350 is a piece of crap.

The 777 production line is winding down; and unless we want to wait into the middle of the next decade for 777-9x (despite the name, really a new aircraft) I don't see any downside.
 
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Majority of PIA flights are short hauls in Asia and Middle East.
But 787 poor reliability is of concern... may be our jigaru engineering can make it work..PIA have not had an aircraft crash for years!
well by induction of 787 that will be remedied soon enough
 
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another way for gunja and co to skim off millions on mega projects

also a bad idea due to troubles with exploding batterries and safety record of the new jet
https://defence.pk/threads/dreamlin...-india-bought-the-troubled-boeing-787.329793/

india might have bought it coz
https://defence.pk/threads/spine-of...r-boeing-787-dreamliner-made-in-india.410617/

bad idea to go for dreamliner
B787-8 is ideal replacement for B767's / A300's / A-310's.

PIA operated 12 A-310's out of which 6 were PIA's and 6 were leased from Air France. Air France repossessed them when the lease ended. 2 out of 6 A-310's are already grounded the remaining would be grounded after post haj operation.

Additional orders of B787-8 would follow...

B 787 can be used to middle East flights A320 can go USA EU
Perhaps this is what you suggesting.

http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamilies/corporate/acj-family/acj320/
 
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Majority of PIA flights are short hauls in Asia and Middle East.
But 787 poor reliability is of concern... may be our jigaru engineering can make it work..PIA have not had an aircraft crash for years!
well by induction of 787 that will be remedied soon enough
 
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