Why blame Zia for every ill in Pakistan?

[xyxmt]

Bhutto was another worst happen to Pakistan, After Liaqat sahib Shaheed Pakistan turn into a play ground where all type of institute begun to play their dirty games for nothing but for keeping chair the power as long as they can Zia's promise of election within 90 days then his nam NEHAD referendum I forget the slogan but was like " vote for Islam " ?!? try to find out source time being time to cool something here

If you are in my age group I am sure you went to Eidgah ground (bara medan) in Nazimabad to witness the lashing lol

 

[Side-Winder]

How did he pave the path? Did he control them from his grave?

Or were they not leader enough material to use their brain to stop something they see going very south?

One doesn't need to be alive to 'pave' a path for someone to come it's simple as that. Again apply the 'logic' you have been advocating on this thread till so far.

Isnt the current army trying? Centers to un brainwash them...Tell me which politician in the 27 yrs of Zia's attempted this? And which politician attempted it and failed that we can say they tried but Zia did a too big mistake that it couldnt be reverted?
Most politicians in the 27 yrs were like: They saw a blast said some shit on tv and then went back to hibernation!

No one is absolving the politicians ma'am.. Thats what the jungibaaz has been trying to explain.
Yeah People are turning only after they have seen 50,000 dead bodies. And still we have not completely succeeded.

Were they incapable to say go home? Or were they greedy to keep them for money like NS recently invited the Rohigya Muslims for refugee status coz they come with money from UN?

Don't oversimplify the things ma'am.. When they had peneterated. it was neither out of risk not practically possible to oust them just by saying, Go to your homes. What money? you think the money was worth the burden our economy had to bear?

P.S i seriously think i should better be out of here. Like i said, only to make no difference.

 

[Dubious]

One doesn't need to be alive to 'pave' a path for someone to come it's simple as that. Again apply the 'logic' you have been advocating on this thread till so far.

Technically yes one has to be alive to continue an agenda if one is dead the chapter is closed esp when he has a successor....and it falls on the successor to make the next round of choices....It depends on the successor how he makes these choices, either walks the same path - hence equally to blame or paves a new path...Pakistani politics hasnt given birth to such a person!

No one is absolving the politicians ma'am.. Thats what the jungibaaz has been trying to explain.

In 1 breath each of you says that then in the very next sentence of in your case the bold part in the above quote says the opposite (still blaming him solely)

Yeah People are turning only after they have seen 50,000 dead bodies. And still we have not completely succeeded.

Had we started 27yrs ago...What do you think the results would have been like?

Don't oversimplify the things ma'am.. When they had peneterated. it was neither out of risk not practically impossible to oust them just by saying, Go to your homes.

Do you think it was impossible? How did we manage now after loosing thousands of our own? It took thousands of lives to wake up while in the West it takes 2-3 lives to come attack the east!

P.S i seriously think i should better be out of here. Like i said, only to make no difference.

When you have a made up mind even when you say you agree politicians are bad, you revert to blaming Zia back again even after being shown he made choices based on circumstances however once we were out of the war era, choices were not made to undo things...

At times of war things are relatively different, some choices have to be taken HOWEVER, the min the war is done, you dont just go to everyday work, you work to wash off and calm down the aura! THIS the successors failed to see, think of and do!

 

[Side-Winder]

Technically yes one has to be alive to continue an agenda if one is dead the chapter is closed esp when he has a successor....and it falls on the successor to make the next round of choices....It depends on the successor how he makes these choices, either walks the same path - hence equally to blame or paves a new path...Pakistani politics hasnt given birth to such a person!

Ahhhhhhh... why you do this.... You again keep ignoring the gist of my posts. Let me put it this way Zia took us to this highway of destruction SO FAR that there was no point of return. Now you get it? This is what's been your logic about the guys before Zia and when i have applied here, you think it doesn't work here only because it differs with your point of view that's never gonna change anyway.

In 1 breath each of you says that then in the very next sentence of in your case the bold part in the above quote says the opposite (still blaming him solely)

Can't say if the bias in your head is keeping you from getting what we really have been trying to explain.

Had we started 27yrs ago...What do you think the results would have been like?

On what basis? What logic did you have to turn people's minds? You see what logic we use now a days. that taliban are killing innocents in blasts hence they need to be abondened. 28 years ago, it could only highlight your selfishness to use people for the holy war first and then giving them lectures on how jihadi mindset should be eliminated. it was only gonna get worse. Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee open your mind

Do you think it was impossible? How did we manage now after loosing thousands of our own? It took thousands of lives to wake up while in the West it takes 2-3 lives to come attack the east!

Exactly Back in those days. Everyone was welcoming afghanis as brothers. it's only now that people are putting up the demands to oust them. You see how things work?

 

[Dubious]

Ahhhhhhh... why you do this.... You again keep ignoring the gist of my posts. Let me put it this way Zia took us to this highway of destruction SO FAR that there was no point of return. Now you get it?

See you are back to square one...We are returning now coz army is interested in making things better no it wasnt NS's idea ....What if we did this 27 yrs ago...What if 27 yrs ago some of our politicians were interested...Would you still say its soo far no point of return?

This is what's been your logic about the guys before Zia and when i have applied here, you think it doesn't work here only because it differs with your point of view that's never gonna change anyway.

No what you failed to understand...I am for the sake of argument accepting he dragged us to no return zone...But today we are capable of easing a few things...WHY?

Why didnt we ease few aspects 27 yrs ago? If it was point of no return we wouldnt be able to return even today!

Can't say if the bias in your head is keeping you from getting what we really have been trying to explain.

May I suggest the same...You just want to blame Zia without seeing he died blaming him wont do any good ...Nor can we blame him coz were he alive would we be better or in worse condition, we wont know! So cant blame him...However, we can blame those who took tenure after him ...Were alive long enough to make a difference or start a difference....

How can you ignore this bit???

On what basis? What logic did you have to turn people's minds? You see what logic we use now a days. that taliban are killing innocents in blasts hence they need to be abondened. 28 years ago, it could only highlight your selfishness to use people for the holy war and then giving lectures them on how jihadi mindset should be eliminated. it was only gonna get worse. Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee open your mind

ON WHAT BASIS? Are you insane? You were saying it was point of no return...was it an invisible point? Please open your mind when you call something point of no return it wouldnt be invisible!

Mind you sectarian violence has been there since before Zia (read OP as to the shia and Sunni crap and Ahmedi crap and deobandi and Brailvi crap)...Was that invisible?

What about all the tribal BS? Was that invisible?

Rape cases and women going to jail for being molested, was that not enough to make anyone scream or were people dead and couldnt see? Summum Bukmun Umyun?

Was that not logic enough to voice out? No we need thousands to die COZ WE ARE IGNORANT and our ruling class wants thousands per week before they see something that is how blind we have become!

Exactly Back in those days. Everyone was welcoming afghanis as brothers. it's only now that people are putting up the demands to oust them. You see how things work?

Then how can you say point of no return when the point only started recently? Back then it was a strategy and like all strategies change with time our politicians didnt change theirs! How can you blame a dead man who did things based on what was ok when he was alive?

When he died if things screwed up why didnt anyone put the brakes? Change the strategies/ policies? WHY WHY WHY?

Coz we are ignorant and hence our fault! What was ok and normal (

afghanis as brothers.

) became cancerous and we still lived with it as total ignorant people! Just so we can blame the person during whose times it was ok?

How stupid does that sound?

 

[Side-Winder]

@Akheilos The point of no return took us 50,000 lives, un imagineable loss of property, economy and yet things are not back on the track. You can still see the effects of that ideology even till date.

Again you failed to answer one simple thing, How were you gonna change the mindset then? I mean seriously? you have NO clue what logic you were gonna use to CHANGE the mindset. Please realize how stupid you are presenting yourself here.? first you injected people with that ideology and the moment war was over, you think you could open up de radacalization centres to lecture them how we should remove this poison LOL

You're seriously getting way too worse. I'd rather save up some time for something better

 

[Musafir117]

@xyxmt
Pakistani Islamisation programme referendum, 1984 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Was a biggest fraud in the name of Islam to just keep more five years to rule.

 

[xyxmt]

@xyxmt
Pakistani Islamisation programme referendum, 1984 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Was a biggest fraud in the name of Islam to just keep more five years to rule.

you dont get the point.
who has not done these kind of Frauds to stay in power. the point we are discussing here is if Zia was a cause of all the ills of Pakistan today as Liberals make you believe.

 

[Patriot Pakistani]

@xyxmt
Pakistani Islamisation programme referendum, 1984 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Was a biggest fraud in the name of Islam to just keep more five years to rule.

Age, please!! you seem to be a teen-ager

 

[Musafir117]

you dont get the point.
who has not done these kind of Frauds to stay in power. the point we are discussing here is if Zia was a cause of all the ills of Pakistan today as Liberals make you believe.

There were a lot of illness in our society before him agree but he inject a lot of other as well and on name of Islam THATs my point.

 

[batmannow]

Germany is over Hitler, we arent even through with Zia. its PPP politics.


oh tou zinda aae... ma tou samja sharam say doob gea hoga... aaj moulana fazlurehman ko 90 par dkh kar!!

I never think ,that I'm supporter of MQM, I wasn't ?
But the way its been treated that's far away from the pakistan, national interests ?
I'm still with my own POV ?
BTW the thread isn't about me or you & MQM ?

We can say that only with the benefit of hindsight. Put yourself in Zia's shoes at the time of the Soviet invasion (or in Musharraf's after 9/11) and the decisions taken may not be all that wrong.

It all would be a different story , if today soviet Russia could have been in command in Afghanistan ?
Kids just search Google & they think that's it ?

 

[Dubious]

@Akheilos The point of no return took us 50,000 lives, un imagineable loss of property, economy and yet things are not back on the track. You can still see the effects of that ideology even till date.

So we are such big idiots it took 50k lives to hit a point? Where were we when 1, 10s, 100s were dying? Do you know in West even 1 journalist attacked, 5 people taken hostage and the whole country is forced to do something ....Apparently their 1 life is worth 50k of ours! Shame on such lax thinking!

Again you failed to answer one simple thing, How were you gonna change the mindset then? I mean seriously? you have NO clue what logic you were gonna use to CHANGE the mindset.

Seriously? How did it change now? How did we wake up? 50k lives is what makes one change their minds then we are not very far from the jahal era of pre-prophet Muhammad!

Please realize how stupid you are presenting yourself here.?

Please realize you have failed to see I am POINTING at the sleeping, ignorant (used this word repeated times) souls we are! And that is a sin itself!

Prevent education and prevent people from knowing they have a voice! THAT is the major evil which we fail to see till today or even acknowledge!

We fail to even want to say yes we dont know what is rights we will kill anyone who tries to teach us we are wrong!

first you injected people with that ideology and the moment war was over, you think you could open up de radacalization centres to lecture them how we should remove this poison LOL

THAT was the JOB of successors...You seem to enjoy going in circles as long as you avoid bringing in the successors who had a role they didnt play!

You're seriously getting way too worse. I'd rather save up some time for something better

thats what happens dont ever discuss just run away...Come back 27 yrs later like the successors of Zia!

 

[Side-Winder]

You, yourself are one hell of confused buffoon. Wait till things begin to unfold

So we are such big idiots it took 50k lives to hit a point? Where were we when 1, 10s, 100s were dying? Do you know in West even 1 journalist attacked, 5 people taken hostage and the whole country is forced to do something ....Apparently their 1 life is worth 50k of ours! Shame on such lax thinking!

Because a price had to be paid for the policies of Zia. It had to take as many as 50 K lives before the masses finally could accept that 'it's our war'. And here you genius believe that it was politician's fault not to initiate de-radacalization of masses. When you have no clue on where to begin from? What to lecture those, you had pumped up for the jihad. Suddenly our madrassahs were gonna preach love instead of jihadi ideologies? Suddenly the "Mujahideens" that Zia had imported were gonna be terrorists for People? Suddenly the "islamic brotherhood" for Afghanis was gonna be a burden for people? Suddenly the holy concept of violence and extremism in the name of jihad was gonna be unholy for people? Stop fooling yourself. The policies had to backfire someday. The horrible consequences we are still witnessing.

Seriously? How did it change now? How did we wake up? 50k lives is what makes one change their minds then we are not very far from the jahal era of pre-prophet Muhammad!

That's the whole point. it's not that easier to change the narrative of the masses. A huge price had to be paid for this. We are still paying it. Thats what we hate Zia for.

Lemme show you something

Isnt the current army trying? Centers to un brainwash them...Tell me which politician in the 27 yrs of Zia's attempted this? And which politician attempted it and failed that we can say they tried but Zia did a too big mistake that it couldnt be reverted?
Most politicians in the 27 yrs were like: They saw a blast said some shit on tv and then went back to hibernation!

Well, People are finally giving up extremism & violence and that jihadi mindset that Zia had gifted to this nation. Stop laying the debris on the people.

Please realize you have failed to see I am POINTING at the sleeping, ignorant (used this word repeated times) souls we are! And that is a sin itself!

Prevent education and prevent people from knowing they have a voice! THAT is the major evil which we fail to see till today or even acknowledge!

We fail to even want to say yes we dont know what is rights we will kill anyone who tries to teach us we are wrong!

Then why feed crap to masses to build up support for jihad? why make your madrassahs jihadi cells? along with importing jihadis from other countries and let them destroy your social fabric When you know that it's not that easier here to take the things back on their track?

THAT was the JOB of successors...You seem to enjoy going in circles as long as you avoid bringing in the successors who had a role they didnt play!

How?? genius??

thats what happens dont ever discuss just run away...Come back 27 yrs later like the successors of Zia!

I literally wished to bang my head in the wall after reading your rediculous comments. Tell you what, you are not good at it. Better find some other topic to discuss, Lastly i wish no more of my time go in waste

 

[Leader]

I never think ,that I'm supporter of MQM, I wasn't ?
But the way its been treated that's far away from the pakistan, national interests ?
I'm still with my own POV ?
BTW the thread isn't about me or you & MQM ?


It all would be a different story , if today soviet Russia could have been in command in Afghanistan ?
Kids just search Google & they think that's it ?

lol

 

[Dubious]

Because a price had to be paid for the policies of Zia. It had to take as many as 50 K lives before the masses finally could accept that 'it's our war'.

And who is to blame for not taking 5-10 people dead as something serious and needing something to be done?

Why take 50k before opening your eyes and before 50k keep blaming Zia...Now who is to blame for the 50K? Coz 50K could have been stopped at 10 people had someone opened their eyes earlier!

So blaming the mindset of requesting 50K dead before taking action is THE REAL BLAME which no one acknowledges!

Zia didnt say keep your eyes shut till it reaches 50K dead!

That was our choice! The choice of our LEADERS, OUR GOVT, OUR policy makers OUR politicians!

When you have no clue on where to begin from?

Then it is obvious we have shitty leaders...Why no one blame them for being clueless? For being stupid? For being IGNORANT!

What to lecture those, you had pumped up for the jihad. Suddenly our madrassahs were gonna preach love instead of jihadi ideologies? Suddenly the "Mujahideens" that Zia had imported were gonna be terrorists for People? Suddenly the "islamic brotherhood" for Afghanis was gonna be a burden for people? Suddenly the holy concept of violence and extremism in the name of jihad was gonna be unholy for people?

And in USA Hilary is blaming America for the birth of Mujahideens - for not deradicalizing them AFTER America had finished using them against USSR!!

and here in Pakistan you are blaming Zia...Wah! How much more clueless can you get? Even Hilary knew what needed to be done but Pakistan was clueless and didnt know where to start?

Ok at least tell me who took the 1st step or accepting that the case needs something done? Tell me 1 politician in 1988 who had the brains to say look something is wrong! Just 1 man!

Stop fooling yourself. The policies had to backfire someday.

You CAN ONLY claim that if the politicians HAD TRIED in the past OR had acknowledged it! All they did was blame Zia without making a plan to fix it...Not one came up and said look at the mess something must be done! No one wanted to do anything!

That's the whole point. it's not that easier to change the narrative of the masses. A huge price had to be paid for this. We are still paying it. Thats what we hate Zia for.

This is what we call Jahalat! When you need a huge price to open your dumb mouth! In Islam that is why it is said even death of 1 man is viewed as death of humanity but we here think 50K is the necessary amount!

Well, People are finally giving up extremism & violence and that jihadi mindset that Zia had gifted to this nation. Stop laying the debris on the people.

And again the typical blame game...THAT is exactly what our previous politicians said for 27 yrs!

Just keep blaming Zia instead of scratching their brainless head to do something!

Then why feed crap to masses to build up support for jihad? why make your madrassahs jihadi cells? along with importing jihadis from other countries and let them destroy your social fabric When you know that it's not that easier here to take the things back on their track?

Because our nation has no clue about Islam....Had they the smallest idea, knowledge that something is bad they would have abstained instead of jumping into it!

Had they known the simplest examples they would have followed it....In any Management course, any simple course which teaches you to use your brain, the 1st line is to acknowledge shit has occurred, 2nd thing is to trace and 3rd to plan how to fix it...

Islam teaches the same how? When some LAW was passed it was passed slowly...Over time BUT IT WAS PASSED...West follows this mostly....They pass laws and over time build on them!

What we do is blame Zia and forget fixing or progressing over time! What have we built? What have we done in 27 yrs to even minimize the impact EXCEPT THROW THE BLAME ON ZIA? How has that been useful? What good has that brought?

what DO our nation know? Importing prostitutes, Child abuse, Drugs, Cigarette, drinking, corruption....When you are busy with all this implanting this into the mindset of the people who the hell has time to think of how many are dying?

How?? genius??

How? Improving law and order, security, ending feudal law (which till date isnt done), curbing corruption, checking rules of immigration...

How did we not which was totally unrelated to Zia:

NADRA sold NIC to people who arent even Pakistani, made birth certificates and even lineages for them! -THAT helped shit come in but lets blame Zia for what he did! Zia didnt do that! (Immigration laws NOT set by Zia)

Zardari openly sucked money out of Pakistan - Zia never told him to do that! But lets blame Zia and feel better (Corruption rate not set by Zia)

Sectarian violence escalated - But we ignored it...Zia never told us to do that...He was long dead! (Not set by Zia read OP)

Bomb blast every day - Zia never told them to do that but again we ignored it instead bought bomb detectors worth thousands which dont work -Zia didnt take that decision! (Security blindness not set by Zia)

Child kidnapping and brain washing was not advocated by Zia! Child pornography wasnt started during Zia.... (Law and order a mess)

Our judges never processed a single rape case not a single raper was stoned (not in tribal they have their own laws) -Zia asked them to be stoned but not a single was stoned... (Set by Zia never followed) - Every rapist son of MNA or MPA gets away, every bloody rapist who pays the law gets away! (When did Zia set this bribery thing?)

Do you know Shariah is a law which evolves over time ....Meaning the "scholars" have to be learned and have to update it! based on latest science like DNA as proof should be put in but no one put it in coz we dont even have learned people (Zia didnt say make the country not have a single learned person who can tell the truth)

Feudal system still up and running (Till date no one has the brain to abolish it! -Zia didnt back it nor say it should live yet it does)

Pre bail BS...Zia never passed that law where sooooo many assholes got off the hook! But lets blame Zia for all ill! (Law and order chaos)

Half the crimes of the country are committed coz people dont get justice, are poor or have been mistreated! If we cant handle all we could have curbed half! But no lets squeeze the people and force them to join to blow people up!

I literally wished to bang my head in the wall after reading your rediculous comments. Tell you what, you are not good at it. Better find some other topic to discuss, Lastly i wish no more of my time go in waste

What not good at showing you how shameless our 27 yrs have been? Then son you need to grow up!

Some of you kids keep telling me Zia did this and that as though a law written cant be undone! THAT is the problem in Pakistan, no one wants to work to undo anything but just blame and eat their chalgozay while blame and blame then suddenly one day wake up without morals and what not!

If you are incapable of accepting a fault then you are not worth anything coz people advance after mistakes some just choose to live in the mistakes with the mistakes while blaming others about it!