Why BJP must be allowed to hoist the tricolour

[KS]

Why didn't BJP join Omar Abdullah after getting invited by him at flag hosting ceremony in Lal Chawk today? What's the point of BJP hosting the flag when Indian flag is hosted today in Lal Chawk by State Govt of Jammu and Kashmir?

I would not seem inappropriate to suggest Omar was 'forced' to raise the Tricolor in Lal Chowk because of BJP.

One quick question, last year BJP did not go...was the flag raised ? BJP wanted to reply to this and they are well within theor constitutional rights to do so.

I'd like to ask a question to all BJP nationalist here, how many of BJP ever died in Kashmir for nationalistic reasons? Do you know how many of National Conference died in Kashmir because of their pro-India stance? What kind of nut-head would do what exactly Pakistan would have wanted us to do, fomenting more trouble in Kashmir.

Abir, this is a specious argument.

First things first - it was a visionary from your state because of whom
J&K is not an autonomous entity and is still a state in our country.

Secondly everyone knows BJP was not doing this only for nationlistic reasons.They had their own purpose. But whatever it was,this was a signal to the world that JnK is an integral part of India and it was a pie in the face of the separatists who did not allow the raising of the flag last year.

And regarding your question what makes you think NC leaders were pro-India entirely for patriotic reasons and not for their own expediency ? And how can you blame the terrorist acts on the BJP.

Lastly let us not kid ourselves that peace has been achieved in Kasshmir and only this will disrupt that. The truth is that the stone pelters and separatists had no other option other than to stop their rowdy-ism because then who will feed them and also because of the onset of the unforgiving Kashmiri winter. These ppl will just re-group and in the next summer when they will find another Tufail Matoo and restart their arson.

Sorry , but I dont believe you can win over those ppl because it not just a political problem. It has a conspicuous religious angle to it and they will never reconcile being ruled by a Hindu (in their minds) India. It is high time to show the power of the Indian state.

 

[KS]

I myself was ridiculed in this very forum and even faced a ban when I shared my views on the Arundati roy/Geelani episode (advocating secession in the heart of the Indian republic) few months back and was labelled an extremist trying to take away the constitutionally guarenteed right to the Freedom of Speech.

Now my dear liberals, what happened to the BJP's constitutionally mandated fundamental right to hoist the Tricolor in any part of India ?

 

[LaBong]

I would not seem inappropriate to suggest Omar was 'forced' to raise the Tricolor in Lal Chowk because of BJP.

One quick question, last year BJP did not go...was the flag raised ? BJP wanted to reply to this and they are well within theor constitutional rights to do so.

I think it's been celebrated every year in Srinagar like any other places in India.

republic day celebration in kashmir - Google Search

Abir, this is a specious argument.

First things first - it was a visionary from your state because of whom
J&K is not an autonomous entity and is still a state in our country.

Yes but how did things change in reality, can you visit Kashmir like any other state? I think giving the autonomy would have worked more, though we have no way of knowing.

Secondly everyone knows BJP was not doing this only for nationlistic reasons.They had their own purpose. But whatever it was,this was a signal to the world that JnK is an integral part of India and it was a pie in the face of the separatists who did not allow the raising of the flag last year.

Republic day was celebrated in Kashmir last year.

news.outlookindia.com | J&K on High Alert Ahead of Republic Day

And regarding your question what makes you think NC leaders were pro-India entirely for patriotic reasons and not for their own expediency ? And how can you blame the terrorist acts on the BJP.

Yes NC could have other reasons besides patriotic reasons. But they are the ones who's taking the heat and putting their lives at stake. So when they ask for help, I'd support them.

Lastly let us not kid ourselves that peace has been achieved in Kasshmir and only this will disrupt that. The truth is that the stone pelters and separatists had no other option other than to stop their rowdy-ism because then who will feed them and also because of the onset of the unforgiving Kashmiri winter. These ppl will just re-group and in the next summer when they will find another Tufail Matoo and restart their arson.

It would have been needlessly ruffle the relative peace and for political gain of a party.

Sorry , but I dont believe you can win over those ppl because it not just a political problem. It has a conspicuous religious angle to it and they will never reconcile being ruled by a Hindu (in their minds) India. It is high time to show the power of the Indian state.

I agree with you that the movement is driven by a narrow religious view, but this is not the way to show the power of Indian state.

 

[Spring Onion]

What is there in Kashmir is not normalcy - but the fatigue where the separatists and the stone pelters got tired of four months of stone pelting and are taking some rest to re-launch their arson and rowdy-ism again during the next summer.

Kashmir is occupied by India hence Kashmiris are not separatists but fighting to kick out the invaders of their country.

Last time I checked Maoists and Naxals were one and the same. And you are supposed to be a 'renowed' journalist.

The last time i checked you are shying away from replying what i said.

When was the last time BJP has organised a rowdy march to hoist Indian flag in own Indian land of Maoist/Naxal concentration ????????/

so does your nationalism is sleeping there on republic day?

 

[Spring Onion]

I


Secondly everyone knows BJP was not doing this only for nationlistic reasons.They had their own purpose. But whatever it was,this was a signal to the world that JnK is an integral part of India and it was a pie in the face of the separatists who did not allow the raising of the flag last year.

.

An empty claim which the world doesnt accept simple as that.

Though if BJP and other Indians were allowed to hoist indian flag forcefully in occupied Kashmir and they had the clash with locals then it would have been beneficial for freedom from Indian occupation and Not for Indians

 

[KS]

I think it's been celebrated every year in Srinagar like any other places in India.

republic day celebration in kashmir - Google Search

Republic day was celebrated in Kashmir last year.

news.outlookindia.com | J&K on High Alert Ahead of Republic Day

No after a gap of 19 years last year the Tricolor was not raised in Lal Chowk in view of the strike called by the Separatists. And this is the most fitting reply that anyone could have given to them.

No flag-hoisting in Lal Chowk after 19 years

Yes but how did things change in reality, can you visit Kashmir like any other state? I think giving the autonomy would have worked more, though we have no way of knowing.

Things changed because of the complacency of the Govt in centre that what could possibly go wrong in Kashmir especially after the spectacular failure of the Pakistani SSG in their attempt to incite a home grown rebellion in Kashmir.

Things changed because of the short-sightedness and the quixotic views of a man called Nehru.

Immediately after the autonomy was diluted in Kashmir step by step process should have been initiated to bring the Kashmiris into the mainstream and as a starting point this wretched Article 370 should have been watered down gradually to make it a non-entity.

And still we are following this 'bound-to-fail' policy of winning the heart and minds. My left foot.

Yes NC could have other reasons besides patriotic reasons. But they are the ones who's taking the heat and putting their lives at stake. So when they ask for help, I'd support them.

Then should have allowed the BJP leaders alone to have marched to Lal Chowk, given protection to them and allowed the hoisting of the flag. And going by your logic what of Omar tomorrow says Kashmir should get independence as my life is in danger. Will you agree then also ?

It would have been needlessly ruffle the relative peace and for political gain of a party.

There is no peace there for god sake ! They are just restive,regrouping and waitinfg for the next summer to again start .Let us not delude ourselves.

I agree with you that the movement is driven by a narrow religious view, but this is not the way to show the power of Indian state.

Then what is the way ? Would this not have been a wrong signal to the entire world that India doesnt even allow its citizens to raise their national flag in their own country.

What power-in-the-making would allow that. Sometimes I think there are many things we need to learn from Israel.

 

[KS]

Kashmir is occupied by India hence Kashmiris are not separatists but fighting to kick out the invaders of their country.

Indians in general and me in particular give a rodent's posterior as to what you think of Kashmir. We still rule/occupy/terrorise it and you cannot do anything about it

The last time i checked you are shying away from replying what i said.

When was the last time BJP has organised a rowdy march to hoist Indian flag in own Indian land of Maoist/Naxal concentration ????????/

so does your nationalism is sleeping there on republic day?

Maybe because I found it utterly useless to reply to it in the first place. But since you thought like that let me reply - Maoists/Naxals dont want freedom from India.So no need to prove anything there.Period.

 

[LaBong]

No after a gap of 19 years last year the Tricolor was not raised in Lal Chowk in view of the strike called by the Separatists. And this is the most fitting reply that anyone could have given to them.

No flag-hoisting in Lal Chowk after 19 years

I seriously don't understand why Lal Chowk is so important, flag was hoisted in Srinagar that is all matters to me.

I think security wasn't adequate in Lal Chowk that's why they preferred the Stadium.

Things changed because of the complacency of the Govt in centre that what could possibly go wrong in Kashmir especially after the spectacular failure of the Pakistani SSG in their attempt to incite a home grown rebellion in Kashmir.

Things changed because of the short-sightedness and the quixotic views of a man called Nehru.

Immediately after the autonomy was diluted in Kashmir step by step process should have been initiated to bring the Kashmiris into the mainstream and as a starting point this wretched Article 370 should have been watered down gradually to make it a non-entity.

And still we are following this 'bound-to-fail' policy of winning the heart and minds. My left foot.

Yeah I also believe they should abolish 370 and start placing people from other states to Kashmir, like China is doing in Tibet and East Turk.

But who knows it could have created trouble in such extent that it would have been impossible for India to contain Kashmir.

Then should have allowed the BJP leaders alone to have marched to Lal Chowk, given protection to them and allowed the hoisting of the flag. And going by your logic what of Omar tomorrow says Kashmir should get independence as my life is in danger. Will you agree then also ?

No my support for Omar will remain as long as he supports India, that's the basis of my support to him actually.

BJP should have agreed to join Omar in celebrating republic day instead of playing aerobatics in Irabati river.

There is no peace there for god sake ! They are just restive,regrouping and waitinfg for the next summer to again start .Let us not delude ourselves.

Yes and letting the world to forget about Kashmir, why do you forget that the eyes of the world are firmly fixed on Kashmir, it's not wise to forming up trouble needlessly.

Then what is the way ? Would this not have been a signal to the entire world that India doesnt even allow its citizens to raise their national flag in their own country.

What power-in-the-making would allow that. Sometimes I think there are many things we need to learn from Israel.

But flag is hosted in Srinagar today, isn't it?

 

[KS]

I seriously don't understand why Lal Chowk is so important, flag was hoisted in Srinagar that is all matters to me.

I think security wasn't adequate in Lal Chowk that's why they preferred the Stadium.

Lal Chowk is symbolic of Kashmir in general.This is where Nehru promised the plebiscite and this is the place from where Sheikh Abdullah gave his speech to the people of Kashmir.

It is a very symbolic thing.

Yeah I also believe they should abolish 370 and start placing people from other states to Kashmir, like China is doing in Tibet and East Turk.


But who knows it could have created trouble in such extent that it would have been impossible for India to contain Kashmir.

It would have created problems if it had been done in one go. That is why I emphasised on gradual watering down of the provisions that it raises little suspect. But what to do now, we have lost the golden opportunity now.

No my support for Omar will remain as long as he supports India, that's the basis of my support to him actually.

BJP should have agreed to join Omar in celebrating republic day instead of playing aerobatics in Irabati river.

When did Omar 'invite' BJP ?? After they were at the Punjab border as a last ditch attemp to save face. If he was sincere he should have invited the next moment BJP gave a call for the yatra.

Sorry but I find this Omar's invite a sham.

Yes and letting the world to forget about Kashmir, why do you forget that the eyes of the world are firmly fixed on Kashmir, it's not wise to forming up trouble needlessly.

Why are we so underestimating India's power in the global stage. Nobody will bat an eyelid as to what happens in Kashmir as long as Indian economy keeps growing and provides the all important moolah to the world powers. And even if they bat they can do precious little to punish India.

It is this 'Hanuman Syndrome' that afflicts us Indians - desperately underestimating ourselves and not knowing our own potential.

But flag is hosted in Srinagar today, isn't it?

Yes, but after what drama ?

Would the flag have been hoisted if not for the call by the BJP thus forcing the State Govt to do so ? I dont think so.

 

[LaBong]

Lal Chowk is symbolic of Kashmir in general.This is where Nehru promised the plebiscite and this is the place from where Sheikh Abdullah gave his speech to the people of Kashmir.

It is a very symbolic thing.

Ok I understand. Why didn't the army allowed republic day celebration there in last year? Security concern it must be.

It would have created problems if it had been done in one go. That is why I emphasised on gradual watering down of the provisions that it raises little suspect. But what to do now, we have lost the golden opportunity now.

When every move of GoI is taken with suspicion, then I don't a gradual watering down would have been possible. At least not now.

When did Omar 'invite' BJP ?? After they were at the Punjab border as a last ditch attemp to save face. If he was sincere he should have invited the next moment BJP gave a call for the yatra.

Sorry but I find this Omar's invite a sham.

Well Omar's invite is just another political move to counter BJP's?

Why are we so underestimating India's power in the global stage. Nobody will bat an eyelid as to what happens in Kashmir as long as Indian economy keeps growing and provides the all important moolah to the world powers. And even if they bat they can do precious little to punish India.

It is this 'Hanuman Syndrome' that afflicts us Indians - desperately underestimating ourselves and not knowing our own potential.

Tell me what would have made a better headline for newpapers around the world -

"Many died in Kashmir on Republic Day celebration of India."

or,

"Republic day is celebrated peacefully in Kashmir."

Yes, but after what drama ?

Would the flag have been hoisted if not for the call by the BJP thus forcing the State Govt to do so ? I dont think so.

No dude, State Govt of Jammu and Kashmir celebrates republic day every year, including last year. They didn't celebrate it in Lal Chawk though.

 

[KS]

Ok I understand. Why didn't the army allowed republic day celebration there in last year? Security concern it must be.

Because of the strike call from the separatists and fortunately/unfortunately in our country the Army obeys whatever the civilian govt orders it to do.

When every move of GoI is taken with suspicion, then I don't a gradual watering down would have been possible. At least not now.

The suspicion started after 1989 and before that nothing much was there.If it had been done at that time few eyebrows would have been raised.

But one thing we both agree is right now it cant be done. And the thing you may not agree is it is time to show the iron hand hidden beneath the velvet gloves.

Well Omar's invite is just another political move to counter BJP's?

Maybe,May not be. It hardly matters. What matters is that BJP forced the Govt to do what they did - Inviting them, hoisting the flag etc.

Tell me what would have made a better headline for newpapers around the world -

"Many died in Kashmir on Republic Day celebration of India."

or,

"Republic day is celebrated peacefully in Kashmir."

I am asking what difference does it make ? And what if the Headlines came as "India does not allow its own flag to be raised in its own land"

Why we should be concerned about what some uppity liberals sitting in London or Manhattan reading the Guardian or the NYT think of India ??

One thing is sure, except for some press releases by their governments to maintain peace in Kashmir nothing would have been done.

No dude, State Govt of Jammu and Kashmir celebrates republic day every year, including last year. They didn't celebrate it in Lal Chawk though.

That is the crux of the matter. Last year they did not hoist the Flag in Lal Chowk due to the strike call by the separatists and this year BJP decided that they will somehow make the Tricolor fly in Lal Chowk and they achieved it.