Why Armies Do Not Trust Air Forces

[OrionHunter]

IAF despises India army, one of IAF had said that it will cost 40 years for army to learn how to operate these babies

Those chaps need to get their heads examined. You don't need to have Einsteins brains to learn to fly! They're just trying their darnedest to protect their turf!

 

[Shinigami]

this attitude of IAF is dangerous and detrimental to the nations defence

 

[fatman17]

armies generally dont trust airforces bcuz they are never there when you need them....inter-arm rivalry is another thing...elitism of the airforces is another.....both the chiefs of these arms need to understand each others needs and cooperate and coordinate their actions....dont step in the others domain....

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

As far as the US Army goes:

The US Army has control of rotor-wing used from Attack, Medivacs, to Airborne Control on rotor-wing.

Men in each squad are trained to be able to call in strikes from Army aviation assets.

Conflict arises when Fixed Wing aircraft are necessary, as Mr. JHungary has stated with the AFO.

After some experiences gained from Afghanistan and Iraq, among other engagements, the Pentagon has created Unified Control HQs, where each of the forces have liaisons stationed. Where a 2nd Lt. (Platoon leader) can call in an air strike from bombers overhead to the HQ, the Army liaison tells the Air Force liaison who gets approval from an AF operations commander in charge or the HQ commander (depending on where and when) and then the liaison orders any bomber in the area to start their run.

I know soldiers who have returned from duty complaining about the time the AF takes to get a bomb strike, but in all fairness, the US Army Apaches aren't statistically any faster. It comes down to what assets are available. And more importantly the inter-forces rivalry in willingness to point fingers quickly.

 

[jhungary]

As far as the US Army goes:

The US Army has control of rotor-wing used from Attack, Medivacs, to Airborne Control on rotor-wing.

Men in each squad are trained to be able to call in strikes from Army aviation assets.

Conflict arises when Fixed Wing aircraft are necessary, as Mr. JHungary has stated with the AFO.

After some experiences gained from Afghanistan and Iraq, among other engagements, the Pentagon has created Unified Control HQs, where each of the forces have liaisons stationed. Where a 2nd Lt. (Platoon leader) can call in an air strike from bombers overhead to the HQ, the Army liaison tells the Air Force liaison who gets approval from an AF operations commander in charge or the HQ commander (depending on where and when) and then the liaison orders any bomber in the area to start their run.

I know soldiers who have returned from duty complaining about the time the AF takes to get a bomb strike, but in all fairness, the US Army Apaches aren't statistically any faster. It comes down to what assets are available. And more importantly the inter-forces rivalry in willingness to point fingers quickly.

Let me explain further how Army/Air Force Operate in US Military.

Before any Ops, you attend a briefing. Within the briefing, you are noted the objective, environment, mission parameter (Time and date and temperature and so on) and then your asset and estimate enemy asset.

What they will do is, they will tell you which support element are available to you, say for example, in this mission you will have 4 batteries of 155mm call sign "buddy" 2 squadron of F-15E call sign "angel" station at grid something. And so on...

Then if there are no AF Asset involved in the Mission, you will not have a JTAC or TACP team assign to you. Don't ask me what is the different between JTAC and TACP, I am no good on those AF acronym.........

Then in the field, if you have the need to call any Army Asset, you would pull your comm and establish Direct communication to your asset and ask for anything you need (Fire Support, Extraction, Insertion, reinforcement) However, if you want fast Air or any AF asset, you pull your JTAC team and your Observer will ask their parental unit to send you the asset you need.

The different is, while your unit, either regimental command or Brigade command have control over the Army Asset, they command the Apache or Kiowa or so on, your immediate supervisor do not have authority over Air Force Asset, if they do not have the bird take off at that moment you are running your ops, then YOU WILL NOT HAVE AIR SUPPORT. Top Brass cannot pop down to the Military Airfield and yell at those fighter pilot and order them to take off, but they can if they were apache pilot.

After I left, I heard that they adopted a Joint Command structure, but as far as I can figure this out, they just put an Army Commander sitting next to an Air Force Commander in the same room. With all that baffling still going on. It eliminate the time to notify the command of the other side. That's it.

 

[gambit]

'Why Armies Do Not Trust Air Forces'

Because we airmen are smarter, more handsome, more virile, better endowed, and get more chicks.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Let me explain further how Army/Air Force Operate in US Military.

Before any Ops, you attend a briefing. Within the briefing, you are noted the objective, environment, mission parameter (Time and date and temperature and so on) and then your asset and estimate enemy asset.

What they will do is, they will tell you which support element are available to you, say for example, in this mission you will have 4 batteries of 155mm call sign "buddy" 2 squadron of F-15E call sign "angel" station at grid something. And so on...

Then if there are no AF Asset involved in the Mission, you will not have a JTAC or TACP team assign to you. Don't ask me what is the different between JTAC and TACP, I am no good on those AF acronym.........

Then in the field, if you have the need to call any Army Asset, you would pull your comm and establish Direct communication to your asset and ask for anything you need (Fire Support, Extraction, Insertion, reinforcement) However, if you want fast Air or any AF asset, you pull your JTAC team and your Observer will ask their parental unit to send you the asset you need.

The different is, while your unit, either regimental command or Brigade command have control over the Army Asset, they command the Apache or Kiowa or so on, your immediate supervisor do not have authority over Air Force Asset, if they do not have the bird take off at that moment you are running your ops, then YOU WILL NOT HAVE AIR SUPPORT. Top Brass cannot pop down to the Military Airfield and yell at those fighter pilot and order them to take off, but they can if they were apache pilot.

After I left, I heard that they adopted a Joint Command structure, but as far as I can figure this out, they just put an Army Commander sitting next to an Air Force Commander in the same room. With all that baffling still going on. It eliminate the time to notify the command of the other side. That's it.

Top post,thanks.Increased my understanding.

 

[Amolthebest]

Its just like Marketing department doesn't believe in execution department from the same office. Same analogy here. But at the end of the day its one united office

 

[Markus]

Its just like Marketing department doesn't believe in execution department from the same office. Same analogy here. But at the end of the day its one united office

"Operations" would be a better word to use.

 

[jhungary]

'Why Armies Do Not Trust Air Forces'

Because we airmen are smarter, more handsome, more virile, better endowed, and get more chicks.

lol you wish........How often you get laid in the air??

One of the kicks on the ground is you can get laid whenever you want.

by the way, what's the different between JTAC and TACP

 

[dbc]

'Why Armies Do Not Trust Air Forces'

Because we airmen are smarter, more handsome, more virile, better endowed, and get more chicks.

..until you eject over Indian country, then you want your mommies. Navy pilots are much tougher just ask any SERE instructor.

 

[jhungary]

..until you eject over Indian country, then you want your mommies. Navy pilots are much tougher just ask any SERE instructor.

SERE is for wankers.........

try Infiltration and Counter-Infiltration course........You need to know the how's, in and out of torturing people, as well as being torture......

 

[Amaa'n]

the problem of Air Force controlling Army asset will most definitely be seen when you try to use them in the field. To begin with, you will need a AFO (Airforce Forward Observer) to stuck inside your platoon and call them every time you want them, trust me, over a month of combat or so, you wanted to kill your unit AFO a lot more than your enemy........(At least this is how I feel)

Those peep are pilot, they train as a pilot and they know nothing about ground warfare, as if you pull a pilot out of an A-10 and drag him to your unit and expect him to understand what the heck you are doing.

Then there are different flight envelopment. ROEs have to follow between Air Force and Army. This target is denied because they are too close to civilian population, this target is no good because there are friendly around. When you come up with a legit target finally, that is almost always the time your AFO tell you their bird is out of Missile or Fuel or both and have to RTB. More than once I was just thinking to my self, shiite man I can see those F-16 circling around us, JUST DROP THE GOD DAMN BOMB.....

If this did not give you the kicks, you almost always have to babysit your AFO. He most likely think he (or she) is a god when you give him/her a M-4 and he just go rampaging about doing stuff Rambo style. Many time you tell him/her that "You are not in a plane anymore"........

Go figure....

good point there, but is this not the reason Airforce trained CCTs so they could be deployed with Special ops forces?

 

[jhungary]

good point there, but is this not the reason Airforce trained CCTs so they could be deployed with Special ops forces?

am not talking about CCT, Combat Controller is Air Force Branch of SOF, I am just talking about normal Observer. Not only the Spec Op guy got to call CAP in combat, us mash potato do too.

For us, you get a normal airman John or Pilot Jack...Nothing Special About them.........

 

[shree835]

this attitude of IAF is dangerous and detrimental to the nations defence

This topic is not about only IAF...this is about in general....And sad to say this is fact.