Why aren't there any Liberal Parties in Pakistan?

[SQ8]

Let me simplify things for you since you seem confused about liberalism.



Yes.



In a liberal country.. Ahmedis would be able to call themselves Muslims or Christians or whatever the heck and practice. In a liberal country, i could make up a religion which considers spaghetti to be a prophet and noodles to be a God (with some sidekick god powers given to rice), and be able to declare my new invented religion whatever i want, christian hindu or muslim.

Then ipso facto.. in that liberal country.. you could shoot kids for a sport and call it part of your political and social rights.

 

[rohitP]

Then ipso facto.. in that liberal country.. you could shoot kids for a sport and call it part of your political and social rights.

No you couldn't.

Your (intended or not) insistence to ignorantly/non-rationally think about this issue makes me wonder if it is even worth it to spend my time laying it out for you.

I would like to emphasize the difference between thinking of carrying out a murder/rape vs actualy carrying it out. You wouldnt be a criminal for having ideas about it, but you would be a criminal for carrying out your ideas as actions. Actions/consequences of actions, of course will have to be legislated in court and be followed accordingly.

But freedom of speech should be absolute. Words/thoughts cannot hurt anyone, but actions can. Whether a nation wants to criminalize actions like rape/pedophilia/shooting kids/naked protests is upto them. But criminalizing ideas/thoughts that happen to be different/clash with the mainstream is stupid, especially when they are based on fairy-tale make/believe religions.

In a "liberal" country, you can have thoughts or ideas about all that I have posted above, and not be a criminal in front of the law of the nation. But once you cross the red line into carrying them out as actions, you will be a criminal. Of course no country even today allows full freedom of speech, like you can be a criminal in Germany for denying the holocaust. But there is a matter of a genocide of 6 odd million people that makes that an exceptional case.

 

[RangerPK]

What do you mean by "liberal".

By liberal, you mean a homosexual man who drinks alcohol do drugs, has illegitimate children, gambles, lends loan on interest? etc?

Is that what you mean a "liberal"

 

[queerbait]

What do you mean by "liberal".

By liberal, you mean a homosexual man who drinks alcohol do drugs, has illegitimate children, gambles, lends loan on interest? etc?

Is that what you mean a "liberal"

I think liberal means to accept that a homosexual man is just like us except his sexualty.

 

[sur]

.. The freedom to choose religion, to every humans right to political and social freedom, the right of property etc. I didn't know understanding liberalism was that difficult.... right of abortion and Pro gay etc....

Right to property is already there.!!! what more would u like??? Right to choose religion is more than obviously given in Quran
Quran:2:256:- “Let there be no compulsion in religion...”
Q:18:25:Say "The Truth is from your Lord": let him who will, believe, and let him who will, reject (it):...

, it's a grave & widespread mis-interpretation of some events in Ahadees that led to false assumption on apostacy... Yes I agree this grave mis-understanding is wide spread in Pakistan too, but that does not mean we need so-called "liberalism" to fix that. We need to fix that to fix that.

Abortion is also OKed uptil a certain term of pregnancy, conceptus is viable beyond that time anyways. SO no issue there either. Sorry no gays though. That's what Pakistan will not legalize.

Instead of asking for plagiarized "Liberalism", what one should rather discuss is to remove impurities from "Islam". The rust & contamination that has smudged the true face of islam. Islam itself is pretty "liberal".Q:7:32:Say: Who hath forbidden the beautiful (gifts) of Allah, which He hath produced for his servants, and the things clean and pure (which He hath provided) for sustenance? .. But we have adopted cultural influences from Hindu culture & made such a convenient religion into sth hard to live by.

Like an important issue we deal with is sex depreviation. That emanates from fact that we have made marriage into an insurmountable task. Jahaiz & adopted indian rusoomaat.... If we take time to study how easy the marriage is in Islam, we can rid youth from that frustration too, without having to resort to so-called "liberalism". In Hanafi Fiqh, to which most of Pakistani\Indian muslims belong, even presence of 2 witnesses is NOT required at the time of Ejab-o-Kabool... (LINK) 2 ppl can get married just with 2 things (1)Ejab-o-Kabool (making commitment) (2)Announcing the relationship*. Simple as that. Mehr can just be a ring**...





*
The Holy Prophet (sws) said: ‘the only thing that distinguishes the allowable act (i.e. Nikah) from the forbidden one (fornication) is the beat of the tambourine(i.e. making it known) and open declaration of the Nikah. (Ibn Majah, No: 1896)

**
Narrated Sahl bin Sa`d:The Prophet said to a man, "Marry, even with (a Mahr equal to) an iron ring."
Sahih al-Bukhari 5150,, In-book reference:Book 67, Hadith 85,, Online English reference:Vol. 7, Book 62, Hadith 80


(LINK)

It does not matter. Even if the child agrees, the court will treat it as a rape case. That is the constitution of India.

Would ur liberalism allow YOUR 18+ sis to flash at her will & YOUR 18+ daughter to sleep around at her free-will? or lets say dance a mujraa in a chaddee, to please MY eyes ...

If yes, then u can keep such a system for urself. We'll just enjoy glancing at ur ladies' goodies. We don't need such liberalism in our country. If not then u r not a "Liberal" urself, lay-off then. ... "constitution of India" daa maamaaa... shove that up urs.

Like Oscar said,whether we'll allow it or not depends on what do you mean by liberal.!! Every aspect will have to be taken on a case by case basis.

Every law in PAK-istan will be made under the guidance from Quran & Sunnah. Unless someone eradicate almost the whole population & replace it with a new breed.

.. a party that openly supports gayism,...

Pakistan being a 98% muslim country, & majority of that 98% wanting that constitution be under islamic traditions, cannot be open to homosexuality. As far as PTI is concerned; when they say "talk with rebelious", what IK implies is that if we keep bombarding them, that's NEVER gonna solve anything, rather will make more & more suicidals with every assault that we carry out on them. "Talk" don't only mean talk. Talk is an umbrella term for a LOTs of non-combatative maneuvers that will have to be carried out. i.e. tackle them away from foreign agencies, at whose hands they are playing, alleviate their grievances & shift their loyalties towards us.

 

[gangsta_rap]

I guess we can say that there hasn't been a need for a socially liberal party. If take a look at the west, liberalism in this context had grown out of movements that opposed wars and confrontations (hippies during the vietnam war) and the presence of immigrant populations within those countries. Pakistan hasn't faced either of those, and the wars that we have been through have been overshadowed as religious struggles compared to secular conflicts such as vietnam/cold war.

Kind of like how we don't have a green/environment friendly movement.

 

[SQ8]

No you couldn't.

Your (intended or not) insistence to ignorantly/non-rationally think about this issue makes me wonder if it is even worth it to spend my time laying it out for you

Your whole frustration is that you like other are stuck on semantics without understanding the basic concept. Liberalism is defined by the society in which it is practiced. If you try the liberalism of German society for the subcontinent.. you will have riots!. Until this society is prepared to accept certain norms which it considers liberal.. it wont accept the liberalism you talk about. Which is why I refuse to engage in long loghorric debates on what are simply relative semantics on liberalism.

 

[Chronos]

Then ipso facto.. in that liberal country.. you could shoot kids for a sport and call it part of your political and social rights.

I thought my answer to the question sufficed. You cannot put something in concrete a concept that in interpretative and qualitative.

Oh boy, Internet debates suck.

 

[RescueRanger]

Right to property is already there.!!! what more would u like??? Right to choose religion is more than obviously given i Quran
Quran:2:256:- “Let there be no compulsion in religion...”
Q:18:25:Say "The Truth is from your Lord": let him who will, believe, and let him who will, reject (it):...

, it's a grave & widespread mis-interpretation of some events in Ahadees that led to false assumption on apostacy... Yes I agree this grave mis-understanding is wide spread in Pakistan too, but that does not mean we need so-called "liberalism" to fix that. We need to fix that to fix that.

Abortion is also OKed uptil a certain term of pregnancy, conceptus is viable beyond that time anyways. SO no issue there either. Sorry no gays though. That what Pakistan will not legalize.

Instead of asking for plagiarized "Liberalism", what one should rather discuss is to remove impurities from "Islam". The rust & contamination that has smudged the true face of islam. Islam itself is pretty "liberal".Q:7:32:Say: Who hath forbidden the beautiful (gifts) of Allah, which He hath produced for his servants, and the things clean and pure (which He hath provided) for sustenance? .. But we have adopted cultural influences from Hindu culture & made such a convenient religion into sth hard to live by.

Like an important issue we deal with is sex depreviation. That emanates from fact that we have made marriage into an insurmountable task. Jahaiz & adopted indian rusoomaat.... If we take time to study how easy the marriage is in Islam, we can rid youth from that frustration too. In Hanafi Fiqh, to which most of Pakistani\Indian muslims belong, even presence of 2 witnesses if NOT required at the time of Ejab-o-Kabool... (LINK) 2 ppl can get married just with 2 things (1)Ejab-o-Kabool (making commitment) (2)Announcing the relationship*. Simple as that. Mehr can just be a ring**...





*
The Holy Prophet (sws) said: ‘the only thing that distinguishes the allowable act (i.e. Nikah) from the forbidden one (fornication) is the beat of the tambourine(i.e. making it known) and open declaration of the Nikah. (Ibn Majah, No: 1896)

**
Narrated Sahl bin Sa`d:The Prophet said to a man, "Marry, even with (a Mahr equal to) an iron ring."
Sahih al-Bukhari 5150,, In-book reference:Book 67, Hadith 85,, Online English reference:Vol. 7, Book 62, Hadith 80


(LINK)




Would ur liberalism allow YOUR 18+ sis to flash at her will & YOUR 18+ daughter to sleep around at her free-will? or lets say dance a mujraa in a chaddee, to please MY eyes ...

If yes, then u can keep such a system for urself. We'll just enjoy glancing at ur ladies' goodies. We don't need such liberalism in our country. If not then u r not a "Liberal" urself, lay-off then. ... "constitution of India" daa maamaaa... shove that up urs.

Like Oscar said,whether we'll allow it or not depends on what do you mean by liberal.!! Every aspect will have to be taken on a case by case basis.

Every law in PAK-istan will be made under the guidance from Quran & Sunnah. Unless someone eradicate almost the whole population & replace it with a new breed.



Pakistan being a 98% muslim country, & majority of that 98% wanting to have constitution be under islamic traditions, cannot be open to homosexuality. As far as PTI is concerned; when they say "talk with rebelious", what IK implies is that if we keep bombarding them, that's NEVER gonna solve anything, rather will make more & more suicidals with every assault that we carry out on them. "Talk" don't only mean talk. Talk is an umbrella term for a LOTs of non-combatative maneuvers that will have to be carried out. i.e. tackle them away from foreign agencies, at whose hands they are playing, alleviate their grievances & shift their loyalties towards us.

Absolutely brilliant rebuttal and write up.