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Why Are Indians Unhappy With Modi's Reception in Washington?

1. I was referring to India being not a Socialist state despite the preamble to the Constitution declaring it to be.

2. About secular, the current GoI is indeed promoting a particular faith as state religion. What should really be is that India neither requires a Hindu party nor a Muslim party ( AIMIM etc ) nor a party system at all ( this last is a discussion for another thread ).
Don't make blanket statements without having a clue. Tell me an instance where GoI promoted a faith as state religion? We also provide freedom to have any kind of party be it Muslim, Hindu, Christian, or Sikh.
Can you pls stop replying to @jamahir he spends hrs on pdf writting paragraphs with colourful language you can't win
Bhai, I dont have a problem with Jamahir. I know what he is, been talking to him since I was in PDF. 😁
Indian communists are near extinction so its a luxury to speak to the endangered party folks
 
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Don't make blanket statements without having a clue. Tell me an instance where GoI promoted a faith as state religion?

Senior Hindutvadi leaders like Yogi Adityanath have often declared that they want the current Constitution replaced by the Manusmriti. From this 2018 article :
BJP, which believes in Hindu nationalism, faces the dilemma about Indian Constitution. Necessarily it has to pay its obeisance to Indian Constitution for electoral purpose to be sure. It has to seek votes of all sections of society including dalits and other marginalized sections of society for whom this Constitution is a liberator. At present, BJP’s electoral strength is not adequate for changing the Constitution, so it cannot talk openly about the same. In addition Constitution has also emotive values for large sections of dalits, who regard it as a greatest contribution of Babsaheb Ambedkar in the direction of social change. In this light to statement of Anantkumar Hegde, the Union Minster, that BJP is in power to change the Constitution may not have matched with the overall strategy of BJP, which is to get 2/3 majority first before talking on this. Mr. Hegde, while speaking in the meeting of Brahman Yuva Parishat said “I will be happy if someone identifies as Muslim, Christian, Brahmin, Lingayat or Hindu. But trouble will arise if they say they are secular.”

And also that BJP is there to change the Constitution. Later when criticized in the Lok Sabha for his statement, he tried to circumvent his statement by saying that “if someone was hurt by his remarks about changing the Constitution and about secularism, he had no hesitation in tendering his apology.”

Surely BJP’s intentions have to be understood and his apology is purely strategic. BJP as a party has to work within the confines of Constitution as it has to swear by it legally. Still when BJP led NDA
Government came to power in 1998, it did appoint Venkatchaliah Commission to review the Constitution; probably that was the first open and subtle ‘statement of purpose’ from its side. It’s another matter that seeing the total opposition to its move of reviewing Constitution from large sections of society, the Commission report was dumped.

After Modi led NDA Government came to power (2014), on the occasion of Republic day 2015, it issued and advertisement with the preamble of Constitution in which words Secular and Socialist were missing. In November 2017 Yogi Adityanath stated that word secularism is biggest lie in India.’

The BJP will not reveal its deeper agenda so easily at present. Still it can be understood that BJP is not comfortable with the present Constitution and laws be it the one’s related to Article 370 (Kashmir), Article 25 (freedom of religion), article 30 (about minorities setting up educational institutions). As BJP is a part of RSS combine, one has to look at what RSS ideologues state, what its associates like VHP and others say on the issue. These organizations have times and again articulated their opposition to Indian Constitution and their goal of making the one based on Holy Indian scriptures.

As such the whole attempt of Hindu nationalist political formations is to try to pave the way for Hindu nationalism by using the democratic secular space which the present Constitution gives.

RSS ideologue Golwalkar in his writings like ‘Bunch Of Thoughts’ argues that territorial nationalism, which is the basis of Indian Constitution, is a barbarism, since according to him a nation is ‘not a mere bundle of political and economic rights’ but an embodiment of national culture —in India, ‘ancient and sublime’ Hinduism. It sneers at democracy, which Golwalkar sees as alien to Hindu culture, and lavishes praise on the Code of Manu, whom Golwalkar salutes as ‘the first, the greatest, and the wisest lawgiver of mankind’.

When the Constituent Assembly of India passed the Constitution of India on November 26, 1949, RSS was not happy. Its organ, Organiser in an editorial on November 30, 1949, complained: "But in our Constitution there is no mention of the unique constitutional development in ancient Bharat. Manu’s Laws were written long before Lycurgus of Sparta or Solon of Persia. To this day his laws as enunciated in the Manusmriti excite the admiration of the world and elicit spontaneous obedience and conformity. But to our constitutional pundits that means nothing."

VD Savarkar has been the major ideologue from whom most of the Hindu nationalists draw their inspiration. He argued: "Manusmriti is that scripture which is most worship-able after Vedas for our Hindu Nation and which from ancient times has become the basis of our culture-customs, thought and practice. This book for centuries has codified the spiritual and divine march of our nation. Even today the rules which are followed by crores of Hindus in their lives and practice are based on Manusmriti. Today Manusmriti is Hindu Law."

Deendayal Upadhayay has been another major ideologue of RSS combine. He was part of Bharatiya Janasangh, previous avatar of BJP. He says that India had written a Constitution imitative of the West, divorced from any real connection to our mode of life and from authentically Indian ideas about the relationship between the individual and society.

Like previous ideologues Upadhyay also felt that the Constitution should embody a Hindu political philosophy befitting an ancient nation like Bharat, that of reducing the Indian national idea to a territory and the people on it was fallacious. According to him the nationalist movement, from the Khilafat agitation onwards, has turned towards a policy of appeasement of the Muslim community, a policy in turn sought to be justified by the need to forge a united front against the British.

He was all through critical of Indian Constitution, as he argued his case for Hindu nation. His ideology seems to be one of the major inspirations for present leadership of BJP. BJP’s discomfort with articles 25, 30 and 370 etc. is mainly as these articles aim at affirmative action in a plural diverse society. These draw from the basic notion of Equality inherent in Indian constitution. Most of the ideologues, the source of BJP ideology uphold Manusmririti, no wonder this was the precise book which architect of Indian Constitution, Babasaheb Ambedkar consigned to the flames!


We also provide freedom to have any kind of party be it Muslim, Hindu, Christian, or Sikh.

No, there should have been no religion-based party. That is where the rot in the system starts.

And Sikhs ? Yes there is the SAD party which was once associated with BJP but during the beginning of the farmer protests in Delhi the Hindutvadis tried to shush up the protests by saying that the protesters were associated with Khalistanis and "those anti-national Naxalites" since some of the farmers were Sikhs.
 
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Senior Hindutvadi leaders like Yogi Adityanath have often declared that they want the current Constitution replaced by the Manusmriti. From this 2018 article :
No... I asked you a very specific question. Where did the state declare itself as non secular, or state promoted a religion in particular. Political statements are not constitutionally valid and they are mere statements.

Basically there is nothing to prove what you said.
No, there should have been no religion-based party. That is where the rot in the system starts.

And Sikhs ? Yes there is the SAD party which was once associated with BJP but during the beginning of the farmer protests in Delhi the Hindutvadis tried to shush up the protests by saying that the protesters were associated with Khalistanis and "those anti-national Naxalites" since some of the farmers were Sikhs.
They're fine as long as they represent the people of a community. After all we are not homogeneous so we can't force what parties one should form and mind you no party can garner votes in the name of religion or caste. Even AIMIM do not overly put Islam at forefront of the campaign it's just known who they represent. They simply is a party that is seen speaking for Muslims which is needed and just fine.

Don't switch topic. Farm protest is not the discussion
 
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Where did the state declare itself as non secular, or state promoted a religion in particular.

What do you mean by state ?

Political statements are not constitutionally valid and they are mere statements.

Not only statements but an act too :
Still when BJP led NDA Government came to power in 1998, it did appoint Venkatchaliah Commission to review the Constitution; probably that was the first open and subtle ‘statement of purpose’ from its side.


and mind you no party can garner votes in the name of religion or caste.

But that's what they do. One of them - BJP - is the largest religious vote bank party in India. In fact in the world.
 
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Indian communists are near extinction so its a luxury to speak to the endangered party folks

Ha ha. But I think Kanhaiya coming into Congress will bring Communist thought into a wider audience.
 
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One conclusion.

India in the eyes of western world, has very low status. India is uncapable of proving a lot of things from industrial, innovation, science, manufacturing, military all proven to be very weak,

Western world will only respect power, what brotherhood, righteous, freedom and human right are just a BS excuse to mask their imperialism.
 
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India is. Is there a problem with that? Secularism simply means state don't interfere with religion or will the state promote a particular faith as state religion. That's it as long as GoI adheres to these principles it is secular. Anyone who thinks otherwise is misinformed idiots who twisted the meaning of secularism to their wishes.
India is supposed to be constitutionally secular. But Indians don't understand secularism the same way as the Western countries do. Only the elitists in India see secularism as a separation between state and religion.

Most Indians on the street perceive secularism as a right to follow all religion without major discrimination. This is not because of maturity in political thought within the society, but because of the polytheistic nature of Hindu faith. The minorities in India are also too religious to have 'secularism' in any other way.

Indians need decades more to understand secularism the proper way. Only perhaps at that point, will the political religious tensions in country truly simmer down.
 
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India is supposed to be constitutionally secular. But Indians don't understand secularism the same way as the Western countries do. Only the elitists in India see secularism as a separation between state and religion.

Most Indians on the street perceive secularism as a right to follow all religion without major discrimination. This is not because of maturity in political thought within the society, but because of the polytheistic nature of Hindu faith. The minorities in India are also too religious to have 'secularism' in any other way.

Indians need decades more to understand secularism the proper way. Only perhaps at that point, will the political religious tensions in country truly simmer down.
😂OR You can simply google the definition.

IMG_20210930_151936.jpg


Now explain to me how can public be secular? You're free to have your own biases and preferences. None of your arguments make any sense. Western societies, say US, is secular in principle and it still have adopted Christian cultural identities and ideals. Even adopted a pledge of allegiance from a Baptist starting with one nation under god.
Ha ha. But I think Kanhaiya coming into Congress will bring Communist thought into a wider audience.
They're opportunists tomorrow if Kanhaiya joins BJP you'll say he can help bring Communism in BJP. But that's not the case is it? Congress is swaying to the centre right. Expecting Temple run of Kanhaiya soon. Even your yechuri is doing the Temple runs. How times change.

What do you mean by state ?
India...
But that's what they do. One of them - BJP - is the largest religious vote bank party in India. In fact in the world.
Yeah, so what? SP, BSP have caste vote banks, even in states like Kerala communist aligned with PFI to stay in power. They are constitutionally valid and legal to have vote banks if not go ahead and take it up in constitutional courts.
 
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😂OR You can simply google the definition.

View attachment 781034

Now explain to me how can public be secular? You're free to have your own biases and preferences. None of your arguments make any sense. Western societies, say US, is secular in principle and it still have adopted Christian cultural identities and ideals. Even adopted a pledge of allegiance from a Baptist starting with one nation under god.
I'm not at doubt about what secularism is supposed to be. Not sure what you want to show with a Google search.

You'll not find American defence minister performing religious rites on defence equipment. They don't have different civil laws to accommodate religious preferences. There is no dietary restriction on people based on religious guidelines.

The reference to 'one nation under God' was coined at a time when the Westerners themselves were not politically mature to practice secularism the same way that they practice today.
 
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I'm not at doubt about what secularism is supposed to be. Not sure what you want to show with a Google search.
That your advise to us has nothing to do with Secularism. And you don't understand what it is as seen from your subsequent posts.

You'll not find American defence minister performing religious rites on defence equipment. They don't have different civil laws to accommodate religious preferences. There is no dietary restriction on people based on religious guidelines.
But you will find US President taking oath placing one hand on Bible. All these are cultural aspects specifically to the US. They don't need special laws to accommodate religious preferences because when US was created it was 99% Christian. Unlike India which had millions of people from other religions and the dietary restrictions which regards to beef is added in the Constitution by the makers. It's part of the culture of this land.
Defence minister is free to follow his religion and customs. So there is nothing wrong in what he did.
The reference to 'one nation under God' was coined at a time when the Westerners themselves were not politically mature to practice secularism the same way that they practice today
Again Secularism is a state affair, public need not be secular. Because its simply not in their capacity to do it. You can be fair and unbiased to people of different religious beliefs or customs. American were politically mature to form a democracy and include the ideals which is still followed to this day and remain secular. And I never disputed the fact that US is secular, I simply said you dont understand the word and what it conveys.
Take Pakistan for example, they strictly put religion as the national identity promote Islam, and have laws embedded in the constitution that is Islamic. But it's public can be fair and unbiased to the non Muslims, another example is Malaysia it is not a secular state.
 
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They're opportunists tomorrow if Kanhaiya joins BJP you'll say he can help bring Communism in BJP. But that's not the case is it? Congress is swaying to the centre right. Expecting Temple run of Kanhaiya soon.

Let's see.

Even your yechuri is doing the Temple runs.

Link please.


Not clear. You will have to elaborate.

Yeah, so what? SP, BSP have caste vote banks, even in states like Kerala communist aligned with PFI to stay in power. They are constitutionally valid and legal to have vote banks if not go ahead and take it up in constitutional courts.

But that goes against what you yourself said :
and mind you no party can garner votes in the name of religion or caste.


Feel sad for Mr Handsome, even his county men are discussing Modi visit. Guy is totally ignored..

Be fair and feel sorry for Mr. Modi too since his visit wasn't covered by the American press. Watch this vid at 02:13. :)
 
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This is to attract FDI and present some comforting moral superiority to themselves.

If they elected this murderous bigot willingly, which started all the Hindutva mess, then the onus is on them to change that - but they won't.

They are too gullible and drunk on Modi fascist propaganda, which they lap up with vigor.

So they must be given their just reward from the global community which is ostracization in some from or another.

Hypocrisy is part and parcel of Hindu culture. Quaid e Azam, after quitting Congress, always deemed it a Hindu political body and he rightly told Muslims that Congress intend to impose a Hindu Raj on India, behind the garb of sham secularism. Good that now every thing is becoming crystal clear, after BJP has even shredded that garb.
One conclusion.

India in the eyes of western world, has very low status. India is uncapable of proving a lot of things from industrial, innovation, science, manufacturing, military all proven to be very weak,

Western world will only respect power, what brotherhood, righteous, freedom and human right are just a BS excuse to mask their imperialism.

What US and it's allies really want from India is to stand in front of China, instead of showing it's 56" rear, every time. :lol: :lol:
 
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