Why America is hated in the Middle-east?

[MIG_ACE]

Has the US bombed countries like UAE,Qatar or Kuwait?? They are muslim countries too.But the leaders of these countries do not threaten to "Wipe israel off the map.." (Ahmadinejad) ; they dont encourage sectarian violence and commit horrible atrocities against ethnic minorities or attack neighbouring countries to get their oil (Saddam hussein) ; they do not actively breed terrorists and give a safe haven to the most wanted man in the world and subject their ppl to horrendous medieval laws (Taliban).

Hating america is easy but that doesnt help when the problem lies within.

 

[Keysersoze]

As an American, i find the lack of memory for America's other deeds disturbing.

Some rebuttals

1- America did what it did in the Middle East in responce to Soviet efforts at creating client states which would let them control Europes energy supply. The Area was a proxy battle between the super powers for control of Europe. After UK/France cut arms sales to Egypt, Nasser invited in the Soviets to supply him with arms, America had a very small footprin tin the ME. The only people we sold anythign too was Lebanon, Jordan, and Iran. Do any of you remember the many and varied socialist terrorist groups trained and funded by USSR? Or the pan-Arab communist- Baathist movement? The US did not pick the ME as a cold war battlefeild.

2- Israel, originally only occupied those areas inhabited by Jews. The Palestinians on advice of the Arab goverments rejected the partition plan and said they were going wipe Israel out, this jsut a few short years after Hitler. What was the US supsoed to do, allow genocide? She is also a true democracy, I would point out that until the Lebanese Civil War- Lebanon a fellow democracy was also close to the USA.

3- The problems in the Middle east begin with British Colonial rule and the dismemberment of the Ottoman Turkish Empire, the divided loyalties and petty tyrants where already there when the US entered the scene during the Cold war.

4- No nation has done more for Islamic countries than the USA. We have gone to war repeatedly to free Moslems form tyranny or genocide (Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq, Kuwait, Afghanistan we got Egypt the Suez (form UK/France and israel) and Sinai back. When the Tusami hit US aid form all sources topped 2 billion, when ever there is an earthquake we send relief. We hav eintervened to stop India in your wars verses them when your troops failed and India began to counter attack. We supported Turkey vs Greece on Cyprus etc. And US pressure and intelligence helped force Syria out of Lebanon.

Taken on a whole, US policy towards the Middle East has been eratic but balanced.

Ok I am afraid I disagree with most of your rebuttals on pretty much every level.

Point one- I suggest you look into the politics of the various regions which the States is currently engaged in and check the involvement of previous administrations. For example you cite non involvement in the ME. Well here are some salient facts for you.
During the Suez crisis there were two factors that played a part in Russia gaining influence in the region 1) Nasser approached the west for arms and was refused. He then turned to the USSR. Also it is important to point out that Dulles (sec of state) withdrew funding for the Aswan dam which would have effectively bankrupted Eygpt. So he again turned to the Eastern bloc. The US then has to counter this hence creating an battle for influence.

Another point you seem to have forgotten is that Dictators or tyrants that fall in line with western or US policy tend to be supported or ignored. (king Farouk (Eygpt)The Shah (Iran) Saddam (Iraq) you could argue about the regimes in Saudi and other oil rich nations. I could go on and mention various South American and North african countries but this is about the ME) People don't forget who supported their oppressors.

Point two-There was peace (relative) between the Jews and Arabs until thousands of illegal (Jewish) immigrants came flooding in from the mess that was WW2. So by your logic Arabs should feel sorry for all the trouble caused by The "civilised" world, and allow them to steal land? This selective morality has not been forgotten by several generations (As for genocide I would cite Rwanda, Sebrinica and the massacres in Lebanon in which you did exactly zip. You had to be pressured into doing something for Kosovo)

TRUE DEMOCRACY--- It is as true a democracy as South Africa during Apartheid. You can't marginalise a huge chunk of the population and call yourself a democracy. Wasn't that the basis of the civil rights movement in the south in your country?
As for Lebanon wasn't that destroyed by the results of many Palestinians being dipossessed and the subsequent Israeli invasion?
Your continual suppport for the illegal actions of the Israelis has compounded the problem. (the number of "accidental" deaths. Must make the Israeli army the most incompetent in the world)

Point three- Yes you are correct(Ottoman) however they left. The current mess that we are all in now is all USA and USSR's fault

Point four- Bosnia-Where were you? I don't remember seeing any US troops on the ground. And if they were why didn't they stop the massacres?
Kosovo? I remember how our government had to fight to get any support at all for that (after the massacres again) and then the troops were from every one except the US.
Kuwait-wasn't that for the vast oil reserves under that country? I mean they don't have democracy now (and they didn't before)
Afghanistan-that was revenge (and no one begrudged you it) but lets not cover it in a coat of bring freedom to the oppressed.
Turkey was simply a cold war requirement (Turkey being strategically important and Greece less so)
Iraq?---------------no need for me to comment here.

Essentially. The point is that most of the decisions have been made for geopolitical reasons. I think the thing I resent is that there is this prevalent idea in the US (and I have lived there) that you are the "good guys" and that there is never any meddling.
It is as "Fair and balanced" as FOX news

Ok time for a cup of tea methinks.............

 

[Keysersoze]

Has the US bombed countries like UAE,Qatar or Kuwait?? They are muslim countries too.But the leaders of these countries do not threaten to "Wipe israel off the map.." (Ahmadinejad) ; they dont encourage sectarian violence and commit horrible atrocities against ethnic minorities or attack neighbouring countries to get their oil (Saddam hussein) ; they do not actively breed terrorists and give a safe haven to the most wanted man in the world and subject their ppl to horrendous medieval laws (Taliban).

Hating america is easy but that doesnt help when the problem lies within.

Ok since i am here i will spare a few minutes for you

UAE Qatar and Kuwait tow the line. They are also small countries. there is regular sectarian violence in India too or for that matter Northern Ireland.

"attack neighbouring countries to get their oil "
They don't attack neighbouring countries they go to the middle east and attack countries for their oil.

"they do not actively breed terrorists"
Ever heard of NORAID? they have been raising funds for the IRA for years
they do fund "rebel" groups so the point that they do not fund terrorist (or freedom fighter depending on your point of view ) is not really valid.

Nice to be a fan but reality is a bit harsh sometimes.

 

[Keysersoze]

Ok this is an example of what I am talking about right here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6139968.stm

 

[zraver]

Ok I am afraid I disagree with most of your rebuttals on pretty much every level.

Point one- I suggest you look into the politics of the various regions which the States is currently engaged in and check the involvement of previous administrations. For example you cite non involvement in the ME. Well here are some salient facts for you.
During the Suez crisis there were two factors that played a part in Russia gaining influence in the region 1) Nasser approached the west for arms and was refused. He then turned to the USSR. Also it is important to point out that Dulles (sec of state) withdrew funding for the Aswan dam which would have effectively bankrupted Eygpt. So he again turned to the Eastern bloc. The US then has to counter this hence creating an battle for influence.

Another point you seem to have forgotten is that Dictators or tyrants that fall in line with western or US policy tend to be supported or ignored. (king Farouk (Eygpt)The Shah (Iran) Saddam (Iraq) you could argue about the regimes in Saudi and other oil rich nations. I could go on and mention various South American and North african countries but this is about the ME) People don't forget who supported their oppressors.

Point two-There was peace (relative) between the Jews and Arabs until thousands of illegal (Jewish) immigrants came flooding in from the mess that was WW2. So by your logic Arabs should feel sorry for all the trouble caused by The "civilised" world, and allow them to steal land? This selective morality has not been forgotten by several generations (As for genocide I would cite Rwanda, Sebrinica and the massacres in Lebanon in which you did exactly zip. You had to be pressured into doing something for Kosovo)

TRUE DEMOCRACY--- It is as true a democracy as South Africa during Apartheid. You can't marginalise a huge chunk of the population and call yourself a democracy. Wasn't that the basis of the civil rights movement in the south in your country?
As for Lebanon wasn't that destroyed by the results of many Palestinians being dipossessed and the subsequent Israeli invasion?
Your continual suppport for the illegal actions of the Israelis has compounded the problem. (the number of "accidental" deaths. Must make the Israeli army the most incompetent in the world)

Point three- Yes you are correct(Ottoman) however they left. The current mess that we are all in now is all USA and USSR's fault

Point four- Bosnia-Where were you? I don't remember seeing any US troops on the ground. And if they were why didn't they stop the massacres?
Kosovo? I remember how our government had to fight to get any support at all for that (after the massacres again) and then the troops were from every one except the US.
Kuwait-wasn't that for the vast oil reserves under that country? I mean they don't have democracy now (and they didn't before)
Afghanistan-that was revenge (and no one begrudged you it) but lets not cover it in a coat of bring freedom to the oppressed.
Turkey was simply a cold war requirement (Turkey being strategically important and Greece less so)
Iraq?---------------no need for me to comment here.

Essentially. The point is that most of the decisions have been made for geopolitical reasons. I think the thing I resent is that there is this prevalent idea in the US (and I have lived there) that you are the "good guys" and that there is never any meddling.
It is as "Fair and balanced" as FOX news

Ok time for a cup of tea methinks.............

Point 1

1- More importantly during the Suez Crisis is israel,UK,France had taken the canal and were forcing a fait acompli on Nasser and the US steppe din an quashed the invasion.

2- The Aswan dam was pulled when Nasser extended recognition to the PRC, in effect making a hostile move agaisnt a long time US Ally (RoC) and amde an arms deal with Chezlovakia. Nassers overtures to the Combloc predated US/UK withdrawl of support.

Point 2

The imigration wa snot illegal until the british tried to buy Arab support in a classic British keep turning one aginst another. The anti-jewish violence began in the 1920's and the Grand High Mufti of Jerusalem spent WW2 in berlin broadcastign anti-semitc messages and signing Hitlers praise.

The US was the force that finaly got Europe to adress the balkans following the market mortar atack in Sarajevo, the US sent peace keeper sinto Lebanoin to try and hea doff the civil war, a suicide bomber put and end to that attempt. The US is also the power that forced israel out of Lebanoin the 1st time (afte rthe suicde attack on our marines we said F'ck it and let Lebanon rot) but the inlfux of the Palestinians is do to balck September when the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan jumped on them with both feet after the PLo tried to overthrow the monarchy. The fight began in 1970 and alsted until 1971 when they were frocibly kicked out by Jordan.

The US led NATO into war agaisnt Serbia over Kosovo very early on. (Part of this was Rawanda guilt)

Israel as a recognised state has a right to defend her self. I will condem israel when she attacks instead of reacts. But upto this point every israeli action has been in repsonce to decades of unendign Terrorism, invasions, and attacks.

Point 3,

No the fault is the Ottoman and Britsh EWmpires fault. They set the stage that sucked super powers in. And the USSR bear smore fault than the US.
The US got active in the region to defend it's allies it did not pick the region as a battle feild the USSR did.

Point 4

The majority of air strikes were carried out by UASF and USN planes and ALCM inckuding the only loss in combat of a F-117A. The US/UK wer ealso the big pushers behind the ramboullet accords that finally sparked NATO to action.

Arabs in Israel have sufferage with members on the Knesset so yes it is a true democracy. The Palestinains are a hostile forgien populations who have demostrated through decade sof attacks that they are not interested in peace.

 

[keith]

zraver, I just dont agree with one thing.
that is Palestinians are not interested in peace is completely incorrect.
Palestinians have to go through a lot of red tapism to go to Jerusalem and pray apart from the fact that every terrorist act is followed by a full fledged and irresponsible bombing by Israeli forces. This incidents make it very difficut to achieve any form of trust between the two parties involved.

 

[bd_wonder]

afaiac, i dont want to engage in conversation with uk usa israeli or indian kinds. other than that, i got no problem with anybody and believe any kinks in relationship (any problems that is) can be ironed out.
i'm all for islamic brotherhood more and more muslim nations uniting. and not is it a staticrelationship, i.e. more and more reverts from around the world can choose the right path that is of islam. usa is the most antiislamic nation around the world.

 

[The general]

Sigh yeah i know the US has screwed up so many times i have lost count. And dude the most the Muslim world could do is a a terrorist attack AKA 9/11 or oil embargo. Both of those have been tried and both have failed horribly. If you are talking nuclear attack you could probably sneak a few suit case nukes into some cities. The effect would be devastating world wide. The middle east would turn into a radioactive wasteland. And Islam would probably be totally extinguished from this earth. Since the Muslims out side of the middle east would be lynched and the muslim countries outside would either be nuked in hatred or in a bloody crusade. This amount of nuking would probably make the Russians and Chinese get into the game of nuclear war. To make the rest of the story short basically humanity most likely totally wiped out. Oh and let say screw you.

 

[A.Rahman]

back to the topic guys, so what should US do to have a good image in middle east?

 

[Awesome]

BDW, you're required to employ the use of polite language on this forum. It is mandatory. Please express your criticism in a civil manner.

 

[bd_wonder]

Oh and let say screw you.

mr asim and a rahman, could you take care of this comment by the general too. what is up with kissing up to americans in pakistan? i thought the people aren't like that only the military?
now you too?

 

[Astra]

zraver, I just dont agree with one thing.
that is Palestinians are not interested in peace is completely incorrect.
Palestinians have to go through a lot of red tapism to go to Jerusalem and pray apart from the fact that every terrorist act is followed by a full fledged and irresponsible bombing by Israeli forces. This incidents make it very difficut to achieve any form of trust between the two parties involved.

Bombing a country that supports terrorism can never be called irresponsible.
Every country that supports terrorism should be bombed by a global force like NATO.

 

[natalie]

America is not entirely to blame but man American plays some dirty politics all around the world it is true........

 

[Introvert]

Every country that supports terrorism should be bombed by a global force like NATO.

then India should be on the hit list as well

 

[Astra]

then India should be on the hit list as well

The western countries are increasingly aware of the state sponcers of terrorism, the results are in infront if your eyes.

India has fought terrorism for longer period than any other country, the west knows that, and saw it during the kargil intrusion of terrorists. This is the reason why India enjoys the diplomatic support the world over.

Thanks to the 9/11, the west has awaken to the threat of terrorism and we have started to get the benefits of US WoT. The US attack on state sponcered/Home grown Taliban terrorists has benefited us.