Why A $20-Billion Defence Deal May Be Scrapped

[shree835]

you'd still prefer rafale over sukhoi?

There is nothing like we prefer Rafael over MKI... Each and every aircraft have different role all together.

Like Tejas cannot perform MKI role or vice versa.
Miraj or MKI or MiG 29 cannot perform MKI or Jaguar role.

In the same way Rafael have different role that it is going to perform in IAF.

Because of this.... IAF need MKI , MiG 29, Miraj , Jaguar ,Tejas....And Rafael.

 

[WishLivePak]

That's true to some extent...but Lockheed Martin intends to go big in manufacturing in India and F35 Marine version will surely be a part of future IN plans...especially for the ac's.

Yaar, leave pakistan out of the equation dude..used f16s and JF17 is paf's best bet.

Indeed they're best. And we don't need these jets. I am even against any new foreign induction, except used f16s and jf17s for next 10 years.

But I'm saying the deal is very good for $20 if India gets what it wants, that was my point. I used pakistan to illustrate how attartive the deal maybe if offered similarly to pakistan.

There is nothing like we prefer Rafael over MKI... Each and every aircraft have different role all together.

Like Tejas cannot perform MKI role or vice versa.
Miraj or MKI or MiG 29 cannot perform MKI or Jaguar role.

In the same way Rafael have different role that it is going to perform in IAF.

Because of this.... IAF need MKI , MiG 29, Miraj , Jaguar ,Tejas....And Rafael.

How many roles are out there? Thought there is air superiority, multi role and ground superiorty

 

[acid rain]

Indeed they're best. And we don't need these jets. I am even against any new foreign induction, except used f16s and jf17s for next 10 years.

But I'm saying the deal is very good for $20 if India gets what it wants, that was my point. I used pakistan to illustrate how attartive the deal maybe if offered similarly to pakistan.

I get your point. What's happening are is negotiations and by the looks of it....its too complicated and it seems the French are reneging from what they claimed to provide and have become greedy or really suck at marketing.

 

[Otocal]

bro there are a few facts that cant be ignoared those most important to MOD right now are price , maintainence , TOT and comminality of wepon systems

most of IAFs Radars & wepons are common on most of the offensive platforms and rafale disturbs all that as its way tocostli to buy , maintain and weponise apart fromtraining owr pilots for a toatalli new doctrine

as for replacement of rafale well apart from super sukhoi there are a couple of non russian paltforms which are already in considration

Price is not a factor.
Cost is around 70000 crores.
Rafale is renowned for easy maintenance and super high availability.
ToT again not a concern. Only concern with ToT is inability of our sarkaari companies to absorb the ToT
Commonality? LISTENING and MICA on Rafale.

Rafale will fit in with IAF infra like gel.

Rafale is choice of IAF. I say go with professional opinion.

The concerns you are raising are the not real issues.

Problem is with HAL not giving Dassault correct figures on production capacity and thus Dassault not agreeing to guarantee for HAL assembled Rafales

 

[airmarshal]

Price is not a factor.
Cost is around 70000 crores.
Rafale is renowned for easy maintenance and super high availability.
ToT again not a concern. Only concern with ToT is inability of our sarkaari companies to absorb the ToT
Commonality? LISTENING and MICA on Rafale.

Rafale will fit in with IAF infra like gel.

Rafale is choice of IAF. I say go with professional opinion.

The concerns you are raising are the not real issues.

Problem is with HAL not giving Dassault correct figures on production capacity and thus Dassault not agreeing to guarantee for HAL assembled Rafales

In every post about Rafale, Indian quote price. Price is a factor. Thats Indian mentality. They are buying Maruti.

 

[Max Pain]

There is nothing like we prefer Rafael over MKI... Each and every aircraft have different role all together.

Like Tejas cannot perform MKI role or vice versa.
Miraj or MKI or MiG 29 cannot perform MKI or Jaguar role.

In the same way Rafael have different role that it is going to perform in IAF.

Because of this.... IAF need MKI , MiG 29, Miraj , Jaguar ,Tejas....And Rafael.

if somehow the rafale deal ends or something, whats the most fitting jet then?
is it MKI?

 

[GURU DUTT]

Price is not a factor.
Cost is around 70000 crores.
Rafale is renowned for easy maintenance and super high availability.
ToT again not a concern. Only concern with ToT is inability of our sarkaari companies to absorb the ToT
Commonality? LISTENING and MICA on Rafale.

Rafale will fit in with IAF infra like gel.

Rafale is choice of IAF. I say go with professional opinion.

The concerns you are raising are the not real issues.

Problem is with HAL not giving Dassault correct figures on production capacity and thus Dassault not agreeing to guarantee for HAL assembled Rafales

1. price is a factor we are not saudies

2. that is just off the shelf cost withowt any thing ecxept the internal gun/cannon you have topay for each bullet , rocket missile and even software upgrades

3.yes rafale is easyto maintain and its engines are also not as service hungry as the russian ones ... your correct on that part

4. TOT is the main problem as dassult knows that india wants at least 200 rafales so it wants to produce first three squads totally in france as for MICA & lightning LDP yes MICA has a cominallty but lightning needs more than just source codes and french are asking toomuch price for it

5. we have M2Ks for quite some time and IAF pilots love it so your right to some extend its like upgrading from a spurced up/rally car polo to say a le means LAMBO

6. yes IAF wants rafale as they love french fighters and for a good reason but i drive a maruti swift but would love to have a BMW X6 dosent means i can have it just like that

7.as for the HAL - dassult tussle over TOT well just go thru recent scorpene subs episode ... point is french dont want to share the "real stuff" specialli regarding the complex manufacturing of critical parts like engine , electroniks & wepon intigration & just forget the TOT for SPECTRA & AESA radar


so rafale is a great platform and a great value for money butthey are just a bit toooooo greedy and since the new goverment is not happy with the price as they are not willing to take kick backs to okay the deal (which UPA wasmore than ready)french are playing a waiting game but things are not looking ever since both typhoon & F/A-18 E-F are almost back in race apart from the latest variant of super sukhoi and all three are now okay with TOT (ecxept americans of AESA radar)

In every post about Rafale, Indian quote price. Price is a factor. Thats Indian mentality. They are buying Maruti.

wo kya hain na bhai jaan we dont have brotherlli nations or all weather friends who just might give us "soft loans" or maybe a free lunch ...... you know what i mean sir

 

[topgun047]

Only an utter fool will say price is not an issue when it comes to multi- billion deals that could go upto 25% of India's total foreign reserves.

Price is not a factor.
ToT is not an issue.
It is HAL's fault that Dassault is not guaranteeing ToT in a timely fashion.

Do I smell a Dalal ?

 

[Otocal]

In every post about Rafale, Indian quote price. Price is a factor. Thats Indian mentality. They are buying Maruti.

Its just rivals sniping the deal

Both Eurofighter (hopeless) and Russians (revenge for mistral)

Price is not as high as these fake media reports (look at source) is saying

1. price is a factor we are not saudies

2. that is just off the shelf cost withowt any thing ecxept the internal gun/cannon you have topay for each bullet , rocket missile and even software upgrades

3.yes rafale is easyto maintain and its engines are also not as service hungry as the russian ones ... your correct on that part

4. TOT is the main problem as dassult knows that india wants at least 200 rafales so it wants to produce first three squads totally in france as for MICA & lightning LDP yes MICA has a cominallty but lightning needs more than just source codes and french are asking toomuch price for it

5. we have M2Ks for quite some time and IAF pilots love it so your right to some extend its like upgrading from a spurced up/rally car polo to say a le means LAMBO

6. yes IAF wants rafale as they love french fighters and for a good reason but i drive a maruti swift but would love to have a BMW X6 dosent means i can have it just like that

7.as for the HAL - dassult tussle over TOT well just go thru recent scorpene subs episode ... point is french dont want to share the "real stuff" specialli regarding the complex manufacturing of critical parts like engine , electroniks & wepon intigration & just forget the TOT for SPECTRA & AESA radar


so rafale is a great platform and a great value for money butthey are just a bit toooooo greedy and since the new goverment is not happy with the price as they are not willing to take kick backs to okay the deal (which UPA wasmore than ready)french are playing a waiting game but things are not looking ever since both typhoon & F/A-18 E-F are almost back in race apart from the latest variant of super sukhoi and all three are now okay with TOT (ecxept americans of AESA radar)



wo kya hain na bhai jaan we dont have brotherlli nations or all weather friends who just might give us "soft loans" or maybe a free lunch ...... you know what i mean sir

ToT for Spectra is unlikely although i hope MoD is pushing for it.
SPECTRA is simply a game changer not just a force multiplier like the RBE2 AA Aesa radar ( better than F-16 AN-APG 80 AESA )

 

[Mav3rick]

Nothing Falls Apart, Accept Negotiation Tactics are On In The End French will be the One who will have to Compromise To Maintain Reputation of there Product.
France chooses to downplay Rafale deal negotiations trouble | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

If the deal falls apart, not only will India lose a significantly better Jet then anything in her arsenal, she will also lose a lot of diplomatic muscle with the French. Basically a lose-lose for both countries.

 

[HINDUTVAWARRIOR]

SCRAP THIS STUPID ANGREZI CRAP SHIT AND LETS BUILD OUR OWN WITH OUR ANCIENT VADIC STEALTH TECHNOLOGIES WE CAN MAKE THE BEST FIGHTER JET IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE WE HINDUS ARE PROUD OF OUR DYNAMIC LEADER MODI JI WHO WILL TRANSFER INDIA INTO A SUPERPOWER IN NO TIME JAI HO MODI JI JAY HINDI BAHRAT MATE KI JAYYYY SCREW THIS BUILD OUR OWN !!

 

[shree835]

if somehow the rafale deal ends or something, whats the most fitting jet then?
is it MKI?

There is 90% chance deal will go through, now a days whatever news you are coming across that is nothing more then a pressure tactics from India to France... Coz India need this deal to give a flying start to their Aviation industry, India need AESA radar in their arsenal ...Don take this deal (MMRCA and FGFA) as a simple buying and selling aircraft... If any case deal is getting failed , then for sure India will put more pressure on Tejas MK2 and very sure you will see addition of Super su30 MKI...But not much in number....

In future you will see India is not going to buy any more fighter aircraft from any other country.... Tech from Rafale and FGFA going to help further.... This is the only reason India is paying this much money....And this will drive Indian economy further as well.

Indeed they're best. And we don't need these jets. I am even against any new foreign induction, except used f16s and jf17s for next 10 years.

But I'm saying the deal is very good for $20 if India gets what it wants, that was my point. I used pakistan to illustrate how attartive the deal maybe if offered similarly to pakistan.


How many roles are out there? Thought there is air superiority, multi role and ground superiorty

Let me explain it..As per my information:

Su 30 MKI--- Air Superiority.... Painting enemy Radar Nicely and challenging enemy to come up...
MiG 29 UPG --- In support with MKI as Interceptor.
Mirage ---- Nuclear strike and Ground Strike. ... Now Mirage is part of Strategic Forces Command (SFC)... They are taking care of nuclear strike... In short you can say Strategic Forces Command (SFC) In IAF : The Air force within Air force...Rafael is going to take over this role.
Jaguar : A Purely Ground a strike force....They know how to shave the mountain.
Tejas : Going to replace MiG 21 , This is a light and lethal fighter...Good in patrolling business and many more...

Rafael: A True Multirole fighter, that is going to perfom MiG 29 , Mirage and Jaguar Role.

 

[NKVD]

If the deal falls apart, not only will India lose a significantly better Jet then anything in her arsenal, she will also lose a lot of diplomatic muscle with the French. Basically a lose-lose for both countries.

Better options are Available With Better Strategic & Influential Candidates.Although MMrca deal is Not Center point indo-french relationship(If Analyze Diplomacy with so Narrow mindset). French Has other Deals in their Claws from India like Scorpian, M2k MLU,Maitri & others as-well Till Now Deal is not Signed yet so we are Not in boundation to Pull-off from this one.

 

[Imran Khan]

ye deal nhi hai maha baharat hai pata nhi kab khatam ho gee

 

[NKVD]

ye deal nhi hai maha baharat hai pata nhi kab khatam ho gee

Baniye Sab Saude Tok peet ke Karte hai Bhai