Who's right, Israel or Palestine?

[nirreich]

Dont worry they wont have it that long.

We will have it longer than Pakistan...

 

[clmeta]

What if they do?? What is status quo persists for 500 years??
Israelis have nukes.
If their nation ceases to exist they take the entire middle east down with them.

Dont worry they wont have it that long.

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

Q: Who's right, Israel or Palestine?

A: F*** yeah!! Its Israel !! Period!

 

[PERSIAN GOD KING]

what sort of retarded question is this? of course Iran is right.

 

[PteX]

Fine , point taken . But could you please tell me why Israel continues to build settlements when the UN and other Israeli allies contiue to ask them to stop . Does it not make the two state solution difficult and complicate things further ?

Why does Israel keep building houses for young Israeli women and children, while supplying over 50000 Palestinians with work(They are hired to build these houses so that their families do not starve in the West Bank)? Because it is our home, our country and our land.

The UN and our so called "Allies" have to play the political game, of course. To satisfy the oil rich Arabs, you must criticize Israel, i thought this was obvious.
In the end, Israel has only a handful of true allies(You can exclude most of Europe from the list of allies) who understand why Israel is building homes in the land that is rightfully theirs.

There won't be any type of peace as long as Arab children are taught that they must kill Jews in the name of Holy Jihad, when President Abbas who is a "moderate" names streets in the honor of suicide bombers.

For every Israeli man, woman and child that they murder, we build more homes. That is our answer to terrorism, they can continue dying and we will live.

I hope that answered your question.

 

[RFS_Br]

Why does Israel keep building houses for young Israeli women and children, while supplying over 50000 Palestinians with work(They are hired to build these houses so that their families do not starve in the West Bank)? Because it is our home, our country and our land.

This is ridiculous. Settlements are built on land that's been taken from Palestinians, many of them poor cave-dwellers. If you're so worried about Palestinian poverty, quit taking from Palestinians what's theirs; cease to impeding them from working on their own lands; and stop the settlers who burn Palestinian lands.

Quit embellishing your obscene occupation. The colonization of Palestinian land has nothing to do with affording them jobs. Your country doesn't even care about Palestinians with Israeli citizenship, who are discriminated against in education, housing, employment, in the Jewish hope that they will eventually leave and deflate the "demographic threat". What hope should there be that you would treat decently Palestinians without Israeli citizenship?

The UN and our so called "Allies" have to play the political game, of course. To satisfy the oil rich Arabs, you must criticize Israel, i thought this was obvious.

The UN probably receives more funding from the US than it does from all Arab economies combined. If it should be biased to any direction, that would be to Israel's, as this is the situation in the US government itself -- bought and paid for by AIPAC. If nonetheless fierce criticism of Israel takes place there, then you should look into the mirror to find out why.

In the end, Israel has only a handful of true allies(You can exclude most of Europe from the list of allies) who understand why Israel is building homes in the land that is rightfully theirs.

Laughable. If forceful annexation is righteous in your book, then you should quit milking Germany for compensations. What the Nazis took from European Jews, wasn't also by means of the sacred (to you) right of might?

There won't be any type of peace as long as Arab children are taught that they must kill Jews in the name of Holy Jihad, when President Abbas who is a "moderate" names streets in the honor of suicide bombers.

The mullahs, the Jihadis, the "indoctrination" -- more easy distractions. Buddy, when your side bold-facedly snatches the land of Palestinian farmers, poor cave-dwellers, churches, there's no need for any indoctrination: you're already giving them reason to hate you, to carry on resisting. Even after the signing of the Oslo Accords, and the peace period that followed, Israel kept on colonizing Palestine -- in fact, more so than ever before. You simply don't give Palestinians any reason to want peace as even in peace you continue with your economic and national aggression that is the settlement construction on stolen land.

Your own national heroes have openly admitted this -- that Palestinians keep on resisting because they won't accept your "right" to colonize and ethnically cleanse their ancestral lands.

Israel's first PM: “We must see the situation for what it is. On the security front, we are those attacked and who are on the defensive. But in the political field we are the attackers and the Arabs are those defending themselves. They are living in the country and own the land, the village. We live in the Diaspora and want only to immigrate [to Palestine] and gain possession of [lirkosh] from them.”

Even today your leaders will occasionally acknowledge that. Didn't that Ehud Barak warmonger say some years ago that, if he was a young Palestinian, he too would have joined the "terrorists"?

For every Israeli man, woman and child that they murder, we build more homes.

For every Israeli murdered, there are hundreds more innocent Palestinians killed.

 

[ZABASHO]

Your definition of a$$ kissing obviously is different from mine . not calling all the palestinians terrorists and supporting their right to exist peacefully along with Israel is not A$$ kissing according to my definition .

And i would request you to not use such language again just because me and you are not on the same page on some issue . I get what you say but my point of view says that beyond supporting Israel's right to exist we should not diss the Palestinians and make an enemy out of the Arabs .Not a very wise thing to do . As far i know except for providing some lip service to Kashmiri cause of Pakistanis Arabs haven't done much at all concretely which becomes a useless customary practice. Even here on this forum I dont see Arab members Supporting Pakistan over india on Kashmir . for the most part they take a neutral stand . However if you know something i don't then please kindly bring it to my notice.

We can agree to disagree on some points but please don't use that kind of language again. With all due respect , there is a limit to my patience .Learn to respect others opinion as well .

Nick, I’m not here on this forum to sugar coat my opinions, get to be diplomatic enough in real life. I rather call spade a spade. You and me are ofcourse entitled to our own opinions, but for all the opinions I have presented to you, I have backed them up with facts. What you say about us and Arabs, is not in touch with ground reality.

First, let me repeat it again, we support a 2 state solution.
But it is the Palestinians, and them egged on by the Arabs who have time and again denounced Israel’s right to exist. If not, they only accept a solution which completely disregards Israeli sovereignty as well as poses a threat to Israel’s national security.

As for us & Arabs, ask any S.Asian, what they think of Arabs due to their ill-treatment. If you merely are basing your opinions of Arabs on a few number of them on this forum, then you most certainly need to broaden your horizon. Arabs have been proven responsible for spread of wahabi sect in S.Asia, which not only used to be a direct threat to India, now is eating up Pakistan from within too.
You say, Arabs have merely provided lip service to Pakistanis on their Kashmiri stance, I refute that.

Check this: Saudi Arabia: Nervously Watching Pakistan | Brookings Institution

http://ipripak.org/factfiles/ff132.pdf

The Hindu : Opinion / Op-Ed : New Delhi's balancing acts in West Asia

Finally, there's a third strand to the Saudi-Pakistan nexus: religion. Whenever Saudi rulers have felt under threat they shore up their legitimacy by looking to the ulema. In 1979, the Iranian revolution and the siege of Mecca spooked the monarchy into giving more money and power to the clerics. That fuelled the growth of violent Sunni extremism over the subsequent decade — and in South Asia in particular. Last year, similarly anxious to bolster their Islamic credentials, the regime responded in the same fashion — funnelling a part of its $120 billion spending package to the religious establishment and reaching out to some of the most extreme strands of regional Islamist movements.
That will have profound and pernicious effects not just in the Middle East and North Africa, but also in the jihadist heartlands of Punjab and even within India. Sunni terrorist groups, including Pakistan-sponsored outfits like the Lashkar-e-Taiba, will have new resources and political allies. That throws up fiendishly difficult intelligence and counterterrorism challenges for Delhi.
Saudi Arabia's former intelligence chief once claimed that his country's relationship to Pakistan was “probably one of the closest relationships in the world between any two countries.” Whether or not that's hyperbole, it's going to get closer.

Our support for Israel or Palestine, isn’t gonna make them a friend or a foe, all we need to do is not increase the distance with them, but it should not be a one way trade, and most certainly not come at the expense of a proven ally, which God knows that India isn’t blessed with many.

 

[KingMamba]

Long Live Palestine - LowKey - YouTube

 

[Tacit Wave]

Nelson Mandela Also voted for Palestine.

 

[RayKalm]

We will have it longer than Pakistan...

Nirreich, what do you mean by this?

 

[Omar1984]

indians will vote israel.

Pakistanis will vote Palestine

 

[Android]

indians will vote israel.

Pakistanis will vote Palestine

there are more indians than pakistanis on this forum

 

[EjazR]

First, let me repeat it again, we support a 2 state solution.
But it is the Palestinians, and them egged on by the Arabs who have time and again denounced Israel’s right to exist. If not, they only accept a solution which completely disregards Israeli sovereignty as well as poses a threat to Israel’s national security.

^^^ You don't seem to have enough info. I don't want to go into the details but suffice to say both sides(ISraeli and Palestinains) were responsible.

I think you don't know about the Saudi led 2002 Arab Peace initiative endorsed by the Arab Leauge (i.e. all Arab counties) and even the OIC

It not only recognises Israel but also states that all states will establish full economic and diplomatic ties as well

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Text: Arab peace plan of 2002

The Two state solution is supported by huge majorities in a survey as recently conducted as 2010 in Arab countries
Poll: 85% agree to two-state solution - JPost - Middle East

Keep in mind that the Palestinians also endorse the Arab Peace initiative. IF what you said was true, the Israelis would be jumping up and down in joy because the peace plan is exactly the same thing that was being offered by Olmert, or in 2000.
The reality is that it was not. There was no implementation of the peace deal from the ISraeli side since the 92 proposal of withdrawing from Arab majority areas in return for recognition by the PLO

Here is former PM Olmert on WHO was responsible of clinching the Palestine peace deal
Ehud Olmert to CNN: Right-wing Americans thwarted Israeli-Palestinian peace accord - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

After Camp David, Israel was supposed to withdraw selectively, that never happened and after Rabin's assasination that was put into cold storage. At the same time, new settlements are being created in West Bank. These are the single biggest reason why the peace talks don't happen.

The creation of settlments while negotiations are going on is like one side eating the pizza while discussing with the other person on how to divide it among themselves.

Check out the most recent discussions that have been leaked under the Palestine Papers to see how much Palestinians had conceded including things like symbolic return of refugees, symbolic control of East Jerusalem, demilitarised Palestine state and 90% of the settlements in the West Bank to be incorporated into Israel and even that was rejected
The Palestine Papers - Al Jazeera English

All said and done, it is in Israel's interest to withdraw from the Palestinian majority areas. As long as the military rule over West Bank and Gaza continues and they are denied political rights, Israel will always have tensions with the locals. And if it does become truly democratic and gives the Palestinians the right to vote, it will loose its Jewish majority.

So its in Israel's best interest to resolve this issue and establish itself with the Arab League based on the 2002 initiative.



On the issue of the Saudi aid to Pakistan. That is peanuts compared to the economic and military aid that the US has given to Pakistan in the past 60+ years. Particularly when it comes to military aid, the Saudis have given zero there as comapred to the US that provided about 1.5 - 2 Billion USD per year and even more at other times. Do we cut of all ties with the US now?

Besides, not all Arabs are Saudis. The left leaning Arab countries like Syria, Iraq and Egypt under Nasser and the PLO all supported India. Some of them even supported India in the 1971 war when the US and the western bloc was completely against India. The Saudis and the Gulf monarchies were actually aligned with the West and were interested in destablsing the left leaning ARab republics to maintain their balance of power. Even today, the Saudis are completely antagonistic to the Hezbullah and HAMAS both of which are supported by the Iranians and would prefer that these two groups dissolve rather than prosper.

You have to understand that difference between the Cold war era and now. Since the Kargil war, the Saudi attitudes have changed because there is no longer a Cold war. The NDA led regime built up on the Saudi support to Indian position during the Kargil war and its probably one of the most important ties that India has in the west Asia region with ties ranging from economic (4th largest trading partner with $25Billion per year in trade), anti-terrorism and defence. Read this from a former diplomat (Wait and watch ) that provides a recent snapshot of this relationship.

On the Wahabi bogeyman, this has been discussed that the main problem with respect to terrorism is not the school of thought but the politicisation of religion and use of religion for political ends. There is no guarantee that non-wahabbi groups will not take to terror unless the politicisation of relgiion and use of religion for political ends is stopped
Read more here
http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/36884-counter-ideology-wahhabis.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...wered-questions-case-pakistan.html#post543498


So what does India "support" mean? It means India supports ISrael's right to exist as well as Palestine's right to exist within the two state solution. It should support steps that would LEAD to the two state solution, and oppose steps that would lead AWAY from it like terrorism by the PAlestinans or building of settlements in the West Bank and Gaza by Israel. That is how our support should be and that is usually the stance taken by the GoI.

 

[nirreich]

Nirreich, what do you mean by this?

In the long term, Israel has more chances to survive than Pakistan.

 

[Tacit Wave]

there are more indians than pakistanis on this forum

Most "intelligent" Of them are pink.