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WHO'S KASHMIR HAPPY?

On the other hand, we Kashmiris from the Pakistani side have much more freedom (on par with mainland Pakistan) and in some cases have special privileges over Pakistani nationals. Moreover, we can express our feelings in full. We can even taunt the army, and politicians also.
I am not a expert on Kashmir nor I have been to Azad Kashmir but l I have seen many tube videos from Real Entertainment, Daily Swag, Sana Amjad, Anam Sheikh about Kashmir. All are Pakistani youtubers. Many Kashmiris from Pakistan complain of high rate of Inflation. There is no atta (wheat flour),no gas,no electricity, load shedding, shortage of medicines. There is a high rate of unemployment. Business is hit, many businessman complain of poor sales. In Gilgit load shedding is more then 20 hours a day.
 
it wasn't local and tribal uprising but they were tribal invaders from NFWP

It was local, why the hell would Kashmiri tolerate living with Hindus who we hated

The whole point of partition was separating populations that hated each other
 
You haven't given any valid reasons for calling it dumb. If not accepting indian claim on Kashmir is the reason then, I can claim the same for indian policy and for your expectations.

Either you accept UN resolutions or make peace under Shimla agreement. You can't just rubbish both. india always maintained this issue to be bilateral due to shimla agreement to avoid UN or any third party mediation. So just rubbishing it means another broken promise which would prove that india is not trust worthy which it has never been. If Shimla agreement is outdated then what's stopping india to initiate a new agreement. Musharraf did that, so india should have taken it forward. There was no reason for india taking unilateral actions.

Yes I have read the UN resolutions & I suggest you to do the same. Mr. Jinnah opposed the idea of plebescite at the time with Moutbettan for two reasons.
1. It was against the basis of partitian i.e Muslim majority areas go to Pakistan. So why just one area go to vote while rest of British india is divided by a Radcliffe commission? A plebescite in Hyderabad or other princely states would be next who have muslim ruler?
2. It was viewed as a delay tactic to consolidate indian army position. Neither nehru nor sardar patel turned up for Lahore talks. Jinnah never trusted mounbatten & never considered him impartial.

Therefore Jinnah was proved right again when nehru backtracked from his promise.


The UN resolutions refers to withdrawal of milita or tribesmen not regular forces. Don't you think it would be unfair to ask one party to vacate while other holds on. The mitual wothdrawal plan could have been agreed but it was never initiated.

You are negating yourself. Read the statement "When people of J&K decide to accede to Pakistan" so whose decision it is?? Does it say that they will be forced if they don't, like what india did with IOK

I had the prevelige to interact with people from both sides. The IoK folks support Pakistan largely to piss india off. If given a choice they might go for full independence 50/50. Azad Kashmir & GB are very pro Pakistan. Both sides have one thing in common which is hate for india.
Go to Srinagar & tell a youth that you came from delhi. The answer will be "oh you came from hindustan.

I Know what you are doing here but let's be honest. How many times Kashmiri students have found themselves in trouble just for celeberating Pakistani Cricket team victory over india. How many times in last 75 years have india been able to raise it's flag in Srinagar on it's national day without a curfew?
Appretiate if you could answer that?
1.
The effectiveness of a policy is judged by its results. Militarily it failed in 1948 , 1965 and 1999 in kashmir
Diplomatically it's so failed that after Aug 2019 UNSC even declined to even hold a formal meeting to address pakistan's complaints. The cheaper insurgency game (game of 1000 cuts) has also failed badly. even pakistan's intelligence brain child Hurriyat is also gone
well in reality pakistan has lost its plot in kashmir for a very long time now.
Every one who matters in pakistan's establishment like intelligencia, diplomats, securocrats and bureaucrats knows it pretty well . Many have spoken on it and many have written about it and many admit it in private as well.

Nobody can tell it to a common man in pakistan because nobody wants to admit it for one ,
secondly kashmir and kashmiris can be sold in pakistan's politics very well
It is one way to keep people in line with a cause to get the kashmiris their freedom.
the cause helps the establishment to divert people's attentions very well from their own problems.

2.
Well from what I know
an agreement is already drafted between Indian and pakistani negotiators based on musharraf's 4 point formulae.
Before takhta
Imran khan was supposed to come to India. Indian PM was supposed to go to pakistan , and then this agreement was supposed to be signed. But there is never political stability in pakistan . That's why military dictators in paksitan have always been more suited for Indians to deal with

3. You are mistaken
On November 1, in Government House, Lahore, Mountbatten put forward India’s proposal: a plebiscite to decide the fate of Junagadh, Hyderabad – and Kashmir. This was the exact wording of India’s proposal:
The Governments of India and Pakistan agree that, where the ruler of a State does not belong to the community to which the majority of his subjects belong, and where the State has not acceded to that Dominion whose majority community is the same as the State’s, the question of whether the State should finally accede to one or the other of the Dominions should in all cases be decided by an impartial reference to the will of the people
To sweeten the deal, Mountbatten even assured Jinnah that the United Nations would be allowed to supervise the process.
But Jinnah saab rejected because he knew Hyderabad would go to India if plebiscite happened and he was not willing to loose Hyderabad - the richest state of India

FYI
A plebiscite was held on 20 February 1948 in Junagarh, in which all but 91 out of 190,870 who voted (from an electorate of 201,457) voted to join India, i.e. 99.95% of the total population.

4. You are mistaken
In 1948-1949, the United Nations passed several resolutions on Kashmir that required Pakistan to withdraw its troops from the area as a precondition for a plebiscite followed by a reduction of Indian troops to a level necessary for keeping order in Kashmir.
However, Pakistan obstructed the process and violated the resolutions themselves by refusing to meet its obligation to demilitarize the area unless India simultaneously withdrew its troops.
It was given as an official response by pakistan side .
You can read it in listed reasons for why UNSC resolution was never implemented
there is only one official response in it and it is from paksitan
 
I am not a expert on Kashmir nor I have been to Azad Kashmir but l I have seen many tube videos from Real Entertainment, Daily Swag, Sana Amjad, Anam Sheikh about Kashmir. All are Pakistani youtubers. Many Kashmiris from Pakistan complain of high rate of Inflation. There is no atta (wheat flour),no gas,no electricity, load shedding, shortage of medicines. There is a high rate of unemployment. Business is hit, many businessman complain of poor sales. In Gilgit load shedding is more then 20 hours a day.
I am from Kotli, Azad Kashmir, and some of my friends and class fellows from the Gilgit region.
Although in the last few years, inflation is high (like the whole of Pakistan) things are not as bad as you stated above.
And who told you about 20 hours of load-shedding in Gilgit???

it wasn't local and tribal uprising but they were tribal invaders from NFWP
Partially true. But it was only after the forces of Maharaja started killings thousands of innocent Muslims in Jammu by putting them under trape. Local Kashmiris were the first to resist and then qabailis from NWFP (not a fan of those guys .... they should not have stopped until they took control of the whole area).
 
Go ask the Afghans who fought against the Americans despite receiving billions in aid in every aspect. Freedom is priceless. People of your calibre cannot understand this.
Yeah freedom is priceless but four decades of war decades have completly ruined their economy, infrastructure. Now there is internal struggle plus the bomb blasts by ISIS every now and then. The Taliban are a bunch of uneducated people. I recently came across a video about the minister for higher education from Afghanistan who tells a group of students that " Higher education is meaningless"
 
Yeah freedom is priceless but four decades of war decades have completly ruined their economy, infrastructure. Now there is internal struggle plus the bomb blasts by ISIS every now and then. The Taliban are a bunch of uneducated people. I recently came across a video about the minister for higher education from Afghanistan who tells a group of students that " Higher education is meaningless"
Listen I don't like the Taliban but this is just a lie

They are not dumb - go watch some of their interviews, I think this statement you're referencing is about women
 
Listen I don't like the Taliban but this is just a lie

They are not dumb - go watch some of their interviews, I think this statement you're referencing is about women

The talibs aren't stupid, they just have a different outlook. Give Afghanistan another 50 years under taliban rule and it could end up mirroring Iranian levels of infrastructure and development (high metal reserves that can be utilized and exported worldwide)
 
it wasn't local and tribal uprising but they were tribal invaders from NFWP
No majority was local, Waziristanis came as back up but they slowed down the offensive and started attacking locals as they got greedy.

You actually got lucky we sent tribals rather than actual soldiers because Kashmiris sided with Indians due to the carnage tribals started.

The talibs aren't stupid, they just have a different outlook. Give Afghanistan another 50 years under taliban rule and it could end up mirroring Iranian levels of infrastructure and development (high metal reserves that can be utilized and exported worldwide)
That's exactly what I'm saying.

I have the same outlook as them but probably not as conservative. Their model is Pashtun conservativism which is even more extreme than Islam.

The Islamic model socially is the best because it builds an equitable society, all this progressive pseduo models sound good on paper but ignore thousands of years of evolution, simple biology and psychology.

By far traditionalism is the best model.
 
The effectiveness of a policy is judged by its results. Militarily it failed in 1948 , 1965 and 1999 in kashmir
Diplomatically it's so failed that after Aug 2019 UNSC even declined to even hold a formal meeting to address pakistan's complaints. The cheaper insurgency game (game of 1000 cuts) has also failed badly. even pakistan's intelligence brain child Hurriyat is also gone
well in reality pakistan has lost its plot in kashmir for a very long time now.
First of all you never responded to the points I raised in my earlier posts. Is it because you don't have answers to those? To make a discussion further you need to respond. Now coming back to your post.

You are mixing military events with the policy. Most disputes start with a war & end up on negotiation table. In 1948 both Pakistan & india ended up with roughly half of Kashmir. So with your claimed dunb policy Pakistan atleast ended up with half of Kashmir & still controls it much better than india..
So the question is what india gained from it's policy after 75 years in Kashmir?
Every one who matters in pakistan's establishment like intelligencia, diplomats, securocrats and bureaucrats knows it pretty well . Many have spoken on it and many have written about it and many admit it in private as well.
I consider it a good thing. There is nothing wrong in learning from past mistakes. Policy is a evolving process. Eventually we will get it right. But has india learnt it lessons....I seriously doubt.
Nobody can tell it to a common man in pakistan because nobody wants to admit it for one ,
secondly kashmir and kashmiris can be sold in pakistan's politics very well
It is one way to keep people in line with a cause to get the kashmiris their freedom.
the cause helps the establishment to divert people's attentions very well from their own problems.
Same can be said of indians who think Kashmir is their "atoot ang" and is internal matter of india. Anti-Pakistani narrative & using it a tool to supress indian muslims is more prevalent in india. Pakistan's internal politics hardly gets influenced by anti-indian sentiments.
takhta
Imran khan was supposed to come to India. Indian PM was supposed to go to pakistan , and then this agreement was supposed to be signed. But there is never political stability in pakistan . That's why military dictators in paksitan have always been more suited for Indians to deal with
Agra summit failed due to indian media. Manmohan was too scared to visit Pakistan in his 10 years. Congress never had the balls to initiate any talks with Pakistan. BJP is now taken over by religious fundamentalists who want to revive hindu supremacy. India always had it's own sets of problems.
You are mistaken
On November 1, in Government House, Lahore, Mountbatten put forward India’s proposal: a plebiscite to decide the fate of Junagadh, Hyderabad – and Kashmir. This was the exact wording of India’s proposal:
That was just the proposal but Jinnah didn't agreed to it because of the reasons stated earlier. You can't have indian forces sitting in srinagar along with so called instrument of sucession & then offer free plebescite? Do you think india went through all the pain to save srinagar only to offer plebescite? in reality india had almost lost Srinagar & that was the reason it rushed to UN to get a ceasefire. The offer of plebescite was just to buy time & consolidate.
FYI
A plebiscite was held on 20 February 1948 in Junagarh, in which all but 91 out of 190,870 who voted (from an electorate of 201,457) voted to join India, i.e. 99.95% of the total population.
So india first sends troop to take control & then does the plebescite without any concent from Pakistan or under UN & you consider it lawful? Didn't you do the same with Nizam?
While in Kashmir you demand Pakistan to withdraw before plebescite? So basically india wants it's troops in control everywhere before they do plebescite.
You are mistaken
In 1948-1949, the United Nations passed several resolutions on Kashmir that required Pakistan to withdraw its troops from the area as a precondition for a plebiscite followed by a reduction of Indian troops to a level necessary for keeping order in Kashmir.
No I'm not. Pls share the official resolution statement in your respose not wikipedia statements. You can find it online on UN website archieves.
However, Pakistan obstructed the process and violated the resolutions themselves by refusing to meet its obligation to demilitarize the area unless India simultaneously withdrew its troops.
It was given as an official response by pakistan side .
You can read it in listed reasons for why UNSC resolution was never implemented
there is only one official response in it and it is from paksitan
Isn't it a fair demand from Pakistan? Although I still dispute your claim of Pakistan required to withdraw first but do you think india would had done it if it was required to do it first.
I would like to know the basis of Indian claim to Kashmir. What are the legal reasons or justifications you can provide apart from Pakistani mistakes?
 
it wasn't local and tribal uprising but they were tribal invaders from NFWP
So basically tribals at the time were not having any fun in their usual lives so on one random day they thought why not go around and kill some dogra people & cause an issue beteeen Pakistan n india. Guess what they succeeded.
 
I am from Kotli, Azad Kashmir, and some of my friends and class fellows from the Gilgit region.
Although in the last few years, inflation is high (like the whole of Pakistan) things are not as bad as you stated above.
And who told you about 20 hours of load-shedding in Gilgit???
Watch "HISTORY OF GILGIT BALTISTAN | ENERGY CRISIS IN GILGIT-B | GILGIT-B PUBLIC on ROAD | DailySwag |" on YouTube


Watch the video from 1.01. The elderly person complains about 22 hour load shedding in gilgit. Due to load shedding, mobile and internet services will take a hit. What about those who do business online especially hoteliers who rely on online bookings


Watch "JAMMU KASHMIR vs AZAD KASHMIR—PER UNIT 1.67Rs—PER UNIT 100Rs—DAM ELECTRICITY BOTH SIDE—KASHMIRI'S😭" on YouTube


Watch "Locals protest over frequent load-shedding in Gilgit Baltistan" on YouTube
 
Watch "HISTORY OF GILGIT BALTISTAN | ENERGY CRISIS IN GILGIT-B | GILGIT-B PUBLIC on ROAD | DailySwag |" on YouTube


Watch the video from 1.01. The elderly person complains about 22 hour load shedding in gilgit. Due to load shedding, mobile and internet services will take a hit. What about those who do business online especially hoteliers who rely on online bookings


Watch "JAMMU KASHMIR vs AZAD KASHMIR—PER UNIT 1.67Rs—PER UNIT 100Rs—DAM ELECTRICITY BOTH SIDE—KASHMIRI'S😭" on YouTube


Watch "Locals protest over frequent load-shedding in Gilgit Baltistan" on YouTube
I know these videos before and there are times in the last few years when we, in AJK, also had 12-16 hours of load-shedding........... but only during a short period of time. It happened all across Pakistan, not just in Gilgit Baltistan or HJK.
I am happy that you Indians are so desperate and keep yourselves busy finding something you can talk about/against Pakistan.
Inflation and load shedding are problems for the whole of Pakistan... not just only for GB and AJK.
While inflation is still at large, the load shedding problem has been improved a lot.... in fact, these days we in AJK are having full 24-hour day electricity.
And these kinds of protests were made across the whole of Pakistan, not just in GB and AJK.
At least it shows these people have some freedom of expression... Unlike Kashmiris from illegally Occupied Kashmir.
I have many friends from Indian illegally occupied Kashmir (including distant relatives - especially some relatives from my father's maternal family who still live on IOK side) and I have discussed this issue before on these forums also that how Kashmiris from Indian IOK are afraid to express their feelings. They will not talk anything about politics or geography even. While we, from AJK, can discuss anything about India, Pakistan, or any other geo or political issues, Kashmiris from IOK clearly avoid this, knowing they are monitored and will have consequences.
 
I am happy that you Indians are so desperate and keep yourselves busy finding something you can talk about/against Pakistan.
Unfortunate views, I am not desperate to find something about Pakistan. I recently watched this video. I regularly watch videos of Daily Swag, Real entertainment and Sana Amjad. All are Pakistan born you tubers and talk of India Pakistani content. Recently I saw a video of Miftah Ismail, former finance minister who says that Pakistan is for just 1% elite. I also watch TAG TV by Tahir Gora who is a Canadian citizen of Pakistani origin. Last week I saw a video of Mr Hamid Bashani, a Canadian citizen of Kashmiri origin from Pakistan who talks about the recent population census. Another interesting video


Watch "Why Azad Kashmir People Are Marching Towards India?" on YouTube

Just watch this video and you will come to know how population sensus is being conducted in Pakistan occupied Kashmir


in fact, these days we in AJK are having full 24-hour day electricity

Well I am happy & elated that the problem of load shedding in AJK is solved and people are having 24 hour electricity.
 
The whole point of partition was separating populations that hated each other
how come Junagadh was made a part of Pakistan. The nawab of Junagadh Mohabat khan merged his state with Pakistan which was against the wishes of people. In fact Mr Jinnah wanted Hyderabad(Deccan) to join Pakistan. Both Junagadh and Hyderabad had a majority(80%) of Hindu population ruled by Muslim Nawabs
 

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