Who Killed Gen. Zia Ul Haq

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I heard a theory of the co-pilot shouting to the pilot"Mashood bhai aap kia kar rahe hain?"
But i guess this topic will remain a detective novel without a finish!

there was a conspiracy theory being propagatated by some sectarian bigots that the Co-pilot of Pak-1 (Flight Lieutenant Sajid, who happened to be Shiia Muslim) may have been "brainwashed" to bring down the aircraft on purpose or perhaps been a sympathizer for Murtaza Bhutto's Al Zulfikar terrorist group

these theories were later debunked by PAF and the investigators as he was a skilled and trusted pilot -- Gen. Zia had personally entrusted him to fly the aircraft and the people who fly Pak-1 (the actual aircraft as well as the decoy) are the most scrutinized figures, intelligence knows about them more than they know about themselves



the mango explosive story i dont buy it simply because it's well established that there was no explosion aboard that aircraft....nor were there any mayday calls.....i believe the pilots were incapacitated....but as i said who the fack knows

as for Gen. Zia -- well whether some of us agree with him or not or whether "like him" or not i think it's important to note one thing:

soviet expansionism was a direct threat to Pakistan.....it was no secret their nefarious designs in the region. Moreover they massacred many afghan villages and this caused mass exodus to Pakistan

the soviets were the primary arms supplier for india also, and payback in kind was very much warranted which Alhamdulillah we did achieve.

 

[Last Hope]

there was a conspiracy theory being propagatated by some sectarian bigots that the Co-pilot of Pak-1 (Flight Lieutenant Sajid, who happened to be Shiia Muslim) may have been "brainwashed" to bring down the aircraft on purpose or perhaps been a sympathizer for Murtaza Bhutto's Al Zulfikar terrorist group

these theories were later debunked by PAF and the investigators as he was a skilled and trusted pilot -- Gen. Zia had personally entrusted him to fly the aircraft and the people who fly Pak-1 (the actual aircraft as well as the decoy) are the most scrutinized figures, intelligence knows about them more than they know about themselves



the mango explosive story i dont buy it simply because it's well established that there was no explosion aboard that aircraft....nor were there any mayday calls.....i believe the pilots were incapacitated....but as i said who the fack knows

as for Gen. Zia -- well whether some of us agree with him or not or whether "like him" or not i think it's important to note one thing:

soviet expansionism was a direct threat to Pakistan.....it was no secret their nefarious designs in the region. Moreover they massacred many afghan villages and this caused mass exodus to Pakistan

the soviets were the primary arms supplier for india also, and payback in kind was very much warranted which Alhamdulillah we did achieve.

AZ.

This is true. There was a call that 'Mashood tum kia kur rhay ho?' which was said by Brigadier Najeeb Ahmed. And then there was nothing else heard. This probably means the nerves gas leaked near the cockpit and the pilots were the first ones to get effected, and dying they started lose the control of aircraft which started to skid and Brigadier then called on them on what's happening.

This is in the book written by Mutafa Kamal Pasha, which I posted in the previous page.

And people, mostly liberals, hate Zia because of the damage his decisions of promoting Islam and formation of Taliban caused. But they do not understand it was a good decision and need of hour, without which Pakistan would have been a part of USSR today. Today's TTP has nothing to do with these. Taliban and Tahreek-e-Taliban-Pakistan are different organisations. TTP was formed by (not naming) to fight against Pakistan and Pakistan Army. The real Taliban created today are fighting in Afghanistan against the US Army today.

 

[amna]

I dislike Bhutto and he is a reason for a lot of our problems.

But by killing him like that gave PPP the power to use the "shaheed" slogan and the have milked it ever since to win elections. It would have been better to let him finish his term and maybe after seeing what a bad leader he was, PPP would have been finished back then rather than now.

if bhutto was bad, zia ul batil was an azab on pakistan. most likely assassinated by his own prodigies.

 

[RazPaK]

if bhutto was bad, zia ul batil was an azab on pakistan. most likely assassinated by his own prodigies.

Bhutto was an azab. He is the reason our country broke in half. Lolz, are you serious?

 

[amna]

bhutto was no angel, but zia makes him look like a baby. every group that uses violence today are Zia's ideological creations - from the political MQM to the sectarian SSP and LeJ to the non-deweaponized returnees of the great afghan jihad - TTP/swat taliban. Bhutto (and a lot of others at that time) may have broken Pakistan in two, but Zia set Pakistan up for slow poisoning.

 

[RazPaK]

bhutto was no angel, but zia makes him look like a baby. every group that uses violence today are Zia's ideological creations - from the political MQM to the sectarian SSP and LeJ to the non-deweaponized returnees of the great afghan jihad - TTP/swat taliban. Bhutto (and a lot of others at that time) may have broken Pakistan in two, but Zia set Pakistan up for slow poisoning.

Sweetheart, Zia was against extremists. What you are witnessing today is the pent up emotions of Pakistanis that have been brought up with prejudice due to their upbringing. It's always been there. If Zia was alive today TTP would wet their pants.

 

[amna]

correction: people like zia and hamid gul are against extremists when they are in their own country. but both have channeled and abused extremism while serving as a willing naive tool for US against USSR. without a proper cleanup plan.

 

[RazPaK]

correction: people like zia and hamid gul are against extremists when they are in their own country. but both have channeled and abused extremism while serving as a willing naive tool for US against USSR. without a proper cleanup plan.

Do you know what happened to Palestinian extremists during Zia's reign?

 

[amna]

dont care two hoots about arab scum and their issues. i know what his favorite projects have done to pakistan now. do you know what happened to colonel imam?

 

[Sinnerman108]

^^

You are here to debate ! without having tolerance or stamina to research ?

 

[Mav3rick]

Sweetheart, Zia was against extremists. What you are witnessing today is the pent up emotions of Pakistanis that have been brought up with prejudice due to their upbringing. It's always been there. If Zia was alive today TTP would wet their pants.

Don't you think you are wasting your time on her? Most of Zia's haters are blinded by hatred, they'd rather be Soviet/Indian slaves then free Pakistanis. They cannot even begin to understand the challenge of a Soviet controlled Afghanistan on one side and India on the other.

And people, mostly liberals, hate Zia because of the damage his decisions of promoting Islam and formation of Taliban caused. But they do not understand it was a good decision and need of hour, without which Pakistan would have been a part of USSR today. Today's TTP has nothing to do with these. Taliban and Tahreek-e-Taliban-Pakistan are different organisations. TTP was formed by (not naming) to fight against Pakistan and Pakistan Army. The real Taliban created today are fighting in Afghanistan against the US Army today.

See, this is what I do not understand. You, me and people like us have been explaining the difference b/w Talibaan and TTP to these 'liberals' for so long yet we are thrown right back at the basic argument. So many times I have told people that Talibaan (Mullah Omer, Haqqanis etc.) are true jihadists fighting an invading force for their freedom or for the freedom of their brothers where as TTP is a local asset of a nexus of CIA/MOSSAD/RAW etc. Why that is so hard for some to understand is simply beyond me.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

See, this is what I do not understand. You, me and people like us have been explaining the difference b/w Talibaan and TTP to these 'liberals' for so long yet we are thrown right back at the basic argument. So many times I have told people that Talibaan (Mullah Omer, Haqqanis etc.) are true jihadists fighting an invading force for their freedom or for the freedom of their brothers where as TTP is a local asset of a nexus of CIA/MOSSAD/RAW etc. Why that is so hard for some to understand is simply beyond me.

There is no such thing as good Taliban and bad Taliban. They are illiterate, They will do anything from the order of boss/ameer. They are Islamic extremist. They lives in stone age and becomes jealous from other people who are enjoying modern facilities.
Their fate is suicide death. They will get bad death. their fate is Humiliation, they will get Humiliation even they doesn't like themselves, they even doesn't like their own family, violence on wife is their proud, even they does't like their own children, they throws them in Madrassas with no future and no contribution for country progress.

 

[Sinnerman108]

There is no such thing as good Taliban and bad Taliban. They are illiterate, They will do anything from the order of boss/ameer. They are Islamic extremist. They lives in stone age and becomes jealous from other people who are enjoying modern facilities.
Their fate is suicide death. They will get bad death. their fate is Humiliation, they will get Humiliation even they doesn't like themselves, they even doesn't like their own family, violence on wife is their proud, even they does't like their own children, they throws them in Madrassas with no future and no contribution for country progress.

We can agree to what you are saying.

Do you want to debate the causes of producing these "Talibs" ??

Do you think Taliban were created in 1992 + ?

 

[Mav3rick]

There is no such thing as good Taliban and bad Taliban. They are illiterate, They will do anything from the order of boss/ameer. They are Islamic extremist. They lives in stone age and becomes jealous from other people who are enjoying modern facilities.
Their fate is suicide death. They will get bad death. their fate is Humiliation, they will get Humiliation even they doesn't like themselves, they even doesn't like their own family, violence on wife is their proud, even they does't like their own children, they throws them in Madrassas with no future and no contribution for country progress.

This is sad sad analysis. Makes me wonder how old you are, cause if you are a teenager than I would be wasting my time in this argument and if you are older than a teenager than I would most definitely would be wasting my time on you.

 

[LeGenD]

And people, mostly liberals, hate Zia because of the damage his decisions of promoting Islam and formation of Taliban caused.

Zia was (indirectly) instrumental in laying the foundations of radicalization of Pakistan. He focused on the Soviet issue but not on the repercussions of getting involved in to the games of superpowers. This is why many liberals dislike him and rightfully so.

But they do not understand it was a good decision and need of hour, without which Pakistan would have been a part of USSR today.

This is a misconception. USSR could not invade Pakistan like Afghanistan because their was no power struggle within Pakistan for communist movement which would have provided USSR the impetus to get involved inside Pakistan like in Afghanistan. The argument of reaching warm waters is also half-baked. USSR would have rather negotiated with Pakistan and Iran for access to warm waters, if it really desired to do so.

In addition, USSR wasn't in its best shape when it invaded Afghanistan. Decades of COLD WAR rivalry and major flaws of the communist system had taken their toll on USSR economy and internal stability. USSR immensely weakened due to this. By the time when USSR invaded Afghanistan; it was only a shell of its former-self.

Think about it; why didn't USSR attempted to harm Pakistan directly? EVER in history?

Pakistani people have been gravely misled on this.

Today's TTP has nothing to do with these. Taliban and Tahreek-e-Taliban-Pakistan are different organisations. TTP was formed by (not naming) to fight against Pakistan and Pakistan Army. The real Taliban created today are fighting in Afghanistan against the US Army today.

This is also a misconception. TTP has ideological links with Afghan Taliban - whether openly acknowledged or not. All of the Taliban factions (Afghani or Pakistani) help each other when necessary. TTP is basically a Pro-Taliban movement inside Pakistan (formed by some Pro-Taliban Pakistani Tribes) which seeks to break Pak-US alliance on WOT and impose its interpretation of Shariah Rule inside Pakistan just like Mullah Omar did in Afghanistan. While TTP has failed in imposing its interpretation of Shariah Rule in Pakistan; it has certainly succeeded in fracturing Pal-US alliance on WOT.

TTP movement actually has taken inspiration from Mullah Omar. In addition, the Afghan Taliban isn't so brave and capable either; it uses Pakistan regions for recuperation and also logistical support. One Afghan Taliban faction, in particular, resides in North Waziristan.