Which one you believe Haqqani or Ijaz ???

[Tameem]

mjnaushad; Meengla.. You both are 100% correct on your analysis. I too back it.

But let’s take it from another angle I think anyone touches upon as of now…lets go to immediate after post 2rd May 2011.

Why our President Mr. Asif Ali Zardari afraid of a coup from Pak military after 2nd May raid by USA at abbotabad compound…What role he himself played in that raid which he thinks amount to loss of his government when opened?

As these are the basis of instigating HH to secure help, As a matter of fact right immediate of that raid he writes a column in a renowned paper congratulating on raids success.

Didn’t Obama himself informed hours before that impending raid directly to him as a supreme commander of Pakistan Armed Forces and which Mr. Zardari only kept it by himself and let the raid go along as it is….???

This is just pure speculation from my end upon analyzing the statements available.

 

[Khalid Mian]

I believe Haqqani..... This Govt is corrupt but we should not let the system derail.... Lets NOT start from point zero again......Let the system roll.... If we topple this Govt now they'll have excuse of not have full five years.... So let them have their five years and then select someone you trust... be it PMLN or PTI or Q or MMA ..... just vote for who you like..... If we keep this process in 20 to 25 years our children will see a much much better Pakistan and will thank us......

A rare voice of sanity. This is what a nation ought to do. But, we are habitual of running after shortcuts, instead of taking a long steady path.

 

[alimukhtar]

both of dem were used as tissue papers by Presidency, i bet nothing gonna happen to both of dem,

 

[Omar1984]

Its obvious Haqqani is guilty.

PPP and PML-N are both anti-army and would go to any extent to protect their seats.

Pakistan Army is one of the main force holding Pakistan together and is preventing Pakistan from collapsing.

So Pakistanis who have even an ounce of love for Pakistan should never work against the Pakistan Army or ISI.

 

[Khalid Mian]

mjnaushad; Meengla.. You both are 100% correct on your analysis. I too back it.

But let’s take it from another angle I think anyone touches upon as of now…lets go to immediate after post 2rd May 2011.

Why our President Mr. Asif Ali Zardari afraid of a coup from Pak military after 2nd May raid by USA at abbotabad compound…What role he himself played in that raid which he thinks amount to loss of his government when opened?

As these are the basis of instigating HH to secure help, As a matter of fact right immediate of that raid he writes a column in a renowned paper congratulating on raids success.

Didn’t Obama himself informed hours before that impending raid directly to him as a supreme commander of Pakistan Armed Forces and which Mr. Zardari only kept it by himself and let the raid go along as it is….???

This is just pure speculation from my end upon analyzing the statements available.

Moving farther, is army and ISI also imvolved in letting that operation done? as they would have been follwoing the orders from their 'supreme commander'? An other thought, army was under tremendous pressure, after Abotabad operation, for not being able to defend its territory against US copters. Was army thinking to take over the civilian govt. as told by Ijaz? Another thing, Ijaz is against ISI and the same ISI is relying on evidence provided by a person openly oppose to them. The matter is not so simple. If it goes to SC, we should prepare to see a lot of surprises. I feel that HH has been scape goat to save BIG peoples' neck. The matter must not be left to be investigated by GoP.

---------- Post added at 04:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:13 PM ----------

Its obvious Haqqani is guilty.

PPP and PML-N are both anti-army and would go to any extent to protect their seats.

Pakistan Army is one of the main force holding Pakistan together and is preventing Pakistan from collapsing.

So Pakistanis who have even an ounce of love for Pakistan should never work against the Pakistan Army or ISI.

Does this mean Pakistani politcal parties want Pakistan to be collapsed (God forbid)? Being unable to run a govt. or being a manager of lessere calibre doesn't mean that they would like to undo Pakistan. IMHO.

 

[TechMan]

I don't trust both Haqqani and Ijaz. Both are enemies of Pakistan. But then when you get a chance to remove one of the enemy, who am I to complain? Good riddance Haqqani is removed, one less person to worry about.
It's like divide and rule. If you have 10 enemies and 9 of them turn against 1, will you complain? You should be thankful to them as now you have one less enemy to worry about.

 

[Omar1984]

Does this mean Pakistani politcal parties want Pakistan to be collapsed (God forbid)? Being unable to run a govt. or being a manager of lessere calibre doesn't mean that they would like to undo Pakistan. IMHO.

Do you honestly think Zardari and Nawaz care about Pakistan and Pakistani people? They have their palaces/mahal in London, Saudi Arabia, and Dubai. All their money are outside the country. They just want to loot the country enough to ensure Bilawal's future, Zardari girls' futures, and Nasharif's children and grandchildren's future while Pakistani Quoam suffers in the hands of these thieves.

 

[Khalid Mian]

Do you honestly think Zardari and Nawaz care about Pakistan and Pakistani people? They have their palaces in London, Saudi Arabia, and Dubai. All their money are outside the country. They just want to loot the country enough to ensure Bilawal's future, Zardari girls' futures, and Nasharif's children and grandchildren's future.

Lot of people has committed many kinds of corruption. Thousands of people even take citizenship of countries other than Pakistan, after leaving this ountry. We can't say they actually want Pakistan to be eliminated. The crimes our 'ruling class' has committed should be seen interms of those crimes only. If someone has stollen something, we can convict him as a thief not as a murderer. So, if they have done any financial corruption, they must be charged for financial corruption. If doing financial corruption means anti-Pakistan then any ordinary vendor who over charges, any clerk who takes bribe, any official who takes advantage of his/her postion (and so on) should also be considered as traitor. But it is not so. We misuse the word 'taritor' a lot in political debates just as Mullahs misuse 'kafir' in their religeous debates. Is there a similarity of same thinking process there?

 

[DV RULES]

mjnaushad; Meengla.. You both are 100% correct on your analysis. I too back it.

But let’s take it from another angle I think anyone touches upon as of now…lets go to immediate after post 2rd May 2011.

Why our President Mr. Asif Ali Zardari afraid of a coup from Pak military after 2nd May raid by USA at abbotabad compound…What role he himself played in that raid which he thinks amount to loss of his government when opened?

As these are the basis of instigating HH to secure help, As a matter of fact right immediate of that raid he writes a column in a renowned paper congratulating on raids success.

Didn’t Obama himself informed hours before that impending raid directly to him as a supreme commander of Pakistan Armed Forces and which Mr. Zardari only kept it by himself and let the raid go along as it is….???

This is just pure speculation from my end upon analyzing the statements available.

2nd may event itself was big bluff from government& army side for Pakistani people so that's another story, speculation could be expanded as long it possible but reality may vary.

So let me speculate too, what if Zardari knew military games where Musharraf & Kayani cooked many things together and participation of Pasha made it tastier. What if Zardari got tired of hidden military games and came to conclusion by offering US to come into action? By default we ever bring every civilian government into criticism but deliberately closing eyes from hard realities of army. Need to think both sides neutrally and then we can get a little clue of facts. No doubt that haqqani was/is good diplomat while in foreign diplomacy there are lot of occasions when own embassy or foreign/interior ministry officials came into criticism by ambassador and ambassador has to do something which may not get favour of foreign ministry or president house in order to make good image of country. After all they also couldn’t go against president orders or foreign minister and at the same time they silently pushing concerns through establishment and military to encounter these orders. Risky game indeed but it is part of work. Conflict between resident chief and head of diplomatic mission is open truth so this issue very possible rose by resident chief to give lesson for Haqqani in both cases, 1. Warning 2. Send him back permanently. My words has solid base that “why this issue rose at this moment?” Hard punch for Zardari government!

 

[Khalid Mian]

2nd may event itself was big bluff from government& army side for Pakistani people so that's another story, speculation could be expanded as long it possible but reality may vary.

So let me speculate too, what if Zardari knew military games where Musharraf & Kayani cooked many things together and participation of Pasha made it tastier. What if Zardari got tired of hidden military games and came to conclusion by offering US to come into action? By default we ever bring every civilian government into criticism but deliberately closing eyes from hard realities of army. Need to think both sides neutrally and then we can get a little clue of facts. No doubt that haqqani was/is good diplomat while in foreign diplomacy there are lot of occasions when own embassy or foreign/interior ministry officials came into criticism by ambassador and ambassador has to do something which may not get favour of foreign ministry or president house in order to make good image of country. After all they also couldn’t go against president orders or foreign minister and at the same time they silently pushing concerns through establishment and military to encounter these orders. Risky game indeed but it is part of work. Conflict between resident chief and head of diplomatic mission is open truth so this issue very possible rose by resident chief to give lesson for Haqqani in both cases, 1. Warning 2. Send him back permanently. My words has solid base that “why this issue rose at this moment?” Hard punch for Zardari government!

I would second your post. Its a fact that we people usually turn a blind eye from the blunders committed by our security agencies. Politicians? easy target.

 

[Omar1984]

Lot of people has committed many kinds of corruption. Thousands of people even take citizenship of countries other than Pakistan, after leaving this ountry. We can't say they actually want Pakistan to be eliminated. The crimes our 'ruling class' has committed should be seen interms of those crimes only. If someone has stollen something, we can convict him as a thief not as a murderer. So, if they have done any financial corruption, they must be charged for financial corruption. If doing financial corruption means anti-Pakistan then any ordinary vendor who over charges, any clerk who takes bribe, any official who takes advantage of his/her postion (and so on) should also be considered as traitor. But it is not so. We misuse the word 'taritor' a lot in political debates just as Mullahs misuse 'kafir' in their religeous debates. Is there a similarity of same thinking process there?

Its one thing for a poor street vendor in Karachi to do corruption, and its totally another thing for a rich billionare leader of a poor country to do corruption.

Dont forget in 1999 when Nawaz was leading the country, the country was near bankruptcy and even today when Zardari is leading the country the country is near bankruptcy.

And for ordinary Pakistani citizens, if they want to build a million dollar house in Dubai with their hard work earned money, its one thing...but for the President/Prime Minister of a near bankrupt country to buy palaces/mahals in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, and London its a totally another thing.

Zardari and Nawaz are both the top 5 richest people in Pakistan and Pakistan becomes poorer and poorer when these people rule the country, and these two men become richer and richer when they are in government. Pakistan becomes richer when Army rules Pakistan. The economy of Pakistan becomes richer and theres more development in Pakistan when the Army takes over.

So dont try to fool the Pakistani nation.

 

[Khalid Mian]

Its one thing for a poor street vendor in Karachi to do corruption, and its totally another thing for a rich billionare leader of a poor country to do corruption.

Dont forget in 1999 when Nawaz was leading the country, the country was near bankruptcy and even today when Zardari is leading the country the country is near bankruptcy.

And for ordinary Pakistani citizens, if they want to build a million dollar house in Dubai with their hard work earned money, its one thing...but for the President/Prime Minister of a near bankrupt country to buy palaces/mahals in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, and London its a totally another thing.

Zardari and Nawaz are both the top 5 richest people in Pakistan and Pakistan becomes poorer and poorer when these people rule the country, and these two men become richer and richer when they are in government. Pakistan becomes richer when Army rules Pakistan. The economy of Pakistan becomes richer and theres more development in Pakistan when the Army takes over.

So dont try to fool the Pakistani nation.

We must vote against such people to let our nation progress. We must abide by law. A poor or a rich, a politician or an official shares the same mentality of becoming above the law when he or she commits a crime. Magnitude may be different. Atitude is the same. We must change our behavior about our constitution and laws. No one must be above the law. Thats it. I go for abiding by the law. No particular person, party or institution is of any concern to me.

 

[Meengla]

Why our President Mr. Asif Ali Zardari afraid of a coup from Pak military after 2nd May raid by USA at abbotabad compound…What role he himself played in that raid which he thinks amount to loss of his government when opened?

As these are the basis of instigating HH to secure help, As a matter of fact right immediate of that raid he writes a column in a renowned paper congratulating on raids success.

You got it all wrong, my friend.
Zardari knew nothing about the raid; it was AFTER the Americans left that Zardari got a call from Obama. What then for Zardari to do other than 'welcome' OBL death? And Zardari's column in Washington Post--however ineffective it may be--was the right thing to do: When everyone in the world was looking at Pakistan suspiciously there you have the President of Pakistan defending Pakistan and highlighting Pakistan's own losses. ONLY a blind Zardari-hater would think that Zardari was acting against Pakistan's interests by doing so.
As @Khalid Mian rightly put it above: 'Corruption' is not the same as being a 'traitor'. Corruption is endemic in political parties. Indeed, if a resource rich country like America is facing problems it is precisely because of the corruption of the politicians and the influence of the Lobbies. But they are not necessarily traitors.
We have been side-tracked here.
But my opinion is still the same: This Ijaz guy took advantage of the trust someone put in him for being an 'influential' 'Pakistani' and stabbed Haqqani in the back. This Ijaz--please read his statements in defence of the Pentagon and Mullen: He is not a Pakistani sympathizer. He is not even an American sympathizer. He is a neo-con who steals from everyone--including from Americans.