Which Book are you reading

[dropkix]

Sanctuary by Sho Fumimura

Awesome crime drama about the Yakuza and dirty politics in Japan

 

[atatwolf]

Inferno - Dan Brown.

 

[Lilja]

1984 George Orwell

 

[Winchester]

I read Songs of fire and ice series (Game of thrones) a few days back. I read the first two parts a long time ago so went through them again. Summary would be full of spoilers (for those who watch GoT on TV) so I won't indulge in that. Some generic criticism without spoilers:

The first book was the best one, it has gone down hill from there onward. I couldn't care less for the events taking place in free cities, the pace is very slow and lacks coherence. The tightly build narrative in the first two books is severely lacking in the recent books, the wars/ tussles don't make much sense in how they play out (my biggest beef). In the first two books I had a fair idea about the strength of different factions and political landscape, the events narrated made sense. Now there is too much incoherence, too many characters (I am sure half of the new characters are simply fillers to drag the story onward) and

The bastard of Bolton lacks any depth and seems to be there just for shock value. He is simply misplaced in the narrative of north established in first books (one example of incoherence). Events surrounding Stannis, Daenerys even Cersei go against the established cannon.

Still as an epic fantasy saga, it is miles ahead of other books. Far better then Wheels of Time (another epic fantasy Saga) where braid tugging bytches reigned supreme

if you are into fantasy fiction thn do check out
The first law trilogy by joe abercombie...it is very raw and has grey characters like song of ice and fire

 

[root]

The Black Box by Michael Connelly.

 

[Lilja]

I read Songs of fire and ice series (Game of thrones) a few days back. I read the first two parts a long time ago so went through them again. Summary would be full of spoilers (for those who watch GoT on TV) so I won't indulge in that. Some generic criticism without spoilers:

The first book was the best one, it has gone down hill from there onward. I couldn't care less for the events taking place in free cities, the pace is very slow and lacks coherence. The tightly build narrative in the first two books is severely lacking in the recent books, the wars/ tussles don't make much sense in how they play out (my biggest beef). In the first two books I had a fair idea about the strength of different factions and political landscape, the events narrated made sense. Now there is too much incoherence, too many characters (I am sure half of the new characters are simply fillers to drag the story onward) and

The bastard of Bolton lacks any depth and seems to be there just for shock value. He is simply misplaced in the narrative of north established in first books (one example of incoherence). Events surrounding Stannis, Daenerys even Cersei go against the established cannon.

Still as an epic fantasy saga, it is miles ahead of other books. Far better then Wheels of Time (another epic fantasy Saga) where braid tugging bytches reigned supreme

IMO Bolton is not misplaced. He has a very important role and there is a reason behind his psychology and the things he does. If you havent reached Dance of Dragons, i can't explain but he has a pivotal role in relation to several of Stark children. So far in all the books, i haven't found a single character that wasnt of an Epic's valuable narrative. It cant be all about the Kings and their truffles. And i dont know how Daenyrys and Cersie arent in the established Cannon. Daenerys is the only 'supposedly' surviving heir of a dynasty that all of Westeros and Essos feared. Her dragons and her claim is the central most worrying factor in the present situation (according to the televised series). As for Cersie, the war of five kings wouldnt even had come to being if it wasnt for her character, her loathing for the king, her longing for that Targareyan prince who rejected her. There are dozens of motives for the actions of each single important character and thats how the butterfly effect for the future events started.

If you're into the white walker mythology and how it all may unfold, hadnt it been for Bolton, Cersie and Daenyrys, this series end would definitely go into a complete different way than it is intended. as of now.

 

[Sedqal]

if you are into fantasy fiction thn do check out
The first law trilogy by joe abercombie...it is very raw and has grey characters like song of ice and fire

First law trilogy is already in my 'to-read' list. Unfortunately here in Malaysia I have been able to find only the top best-sellers so it'll have to wait till I visit Singapore which rumors go has some great book stores offering a far wider variety in fiction.

 

[Sedqal]

IMO Bolton is not misplaced. He has a very important role and there is a reason behind his psychology and the things he does. If you havent reached Dance of Dragons, i can't explain but he has a pivotal role in relation to several of Stark children. So far in all the books, i haven't found a single character that wasnt of an Epic's valuable narrative. It cant be all about the Kings and their truffles. And i dont know how Daenyrys and Cersie arent in the established Cannon. Daenerys is the only 'supposedly' surviving heir of a dynasty that all of Westeros and Essos feared. Her dragons and her claim is the central most worrying factor in the present situation (according to the televised series). As for Cersie, the war of five kings wouldnt even had come to being if it wasnt for her character, her loathing for the king, her longing for that Targareyan prince who rejected her. There are dozens of motives for the actions of each single important character and thats how the butterfly effect for the future events started.

If you're into the white walker mythology and how it all may unfold, hadnt it been for Bolton, Cersie and Daenyrys, this series end would definitely go into a complete different way than it is intended. as of now.

I have read dance of dragons and I will expand a little on why I think the current backs are sub-par

-------------------WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD--------------------

- Bolton (both daddy and bastard) are don't fit, bastard far more so. From the earlier books we get the idea that people in North are tough as nails and huge on issues like honor and loyalty. That is why we hear time after time how Ned's unjust death rallied ALL of north behind house Stark. That is also why Rob was declared the King of North - North apparently didn't forget the defeat from Targaryens and still yearned for a free kingdom. In such an atmosphere Boltons simply don't fit with their flaying and all, specially the Bastard who time and again flaunts the rules and indulges in senseless butchery. The Bastard is simply too low brow and too much of a maniac to command any respect and loyalty in the North we know from earlier books. Similarly after what happened at Red Wedding it is simply inconceivable that North will rally behind Bolton with his luggage of a Frey Wife and alliances with Freys and Lannisters (don't forget every House in North lost people at red wedding).

For example lets take dog senior (man mountain), he is a maniac of equal footing yet he is true born and from a solid house. Even then Tywin (another heartless character) treats the man mountain essentially as a sell sword to scare his enemies never for more respectable jobs. Man Mountain's reputation being the decisive factor yet here we have Boltons duo running wild in a place (North) which is presented as being far more honorable. Whats more before the death of Joff one could at-least make the case that North was subdued because Joff was considered the rightful heir and had the might of whole kingdom behind him but after death of Tywin and disgrace of kingslayer Boltons should be losing support rather then gaining it.
(For the two Stark kids it was Theon not the bastard, his bride is fake Arya so there isn't much which makes him indispensable for the story)

- Cersei's walk of shame was poorly pulled. For one thing we never get the idea in earlier books that the High Septon could pull such a stunt and challenge the writ of King - Septons are presented as completely lacking any stature in the Kingdom yet here is one who makes the mother of the king go through the walk like he wields all the power (infact he is also threatening the will-be wife of the king with complete impunity so its not like he enjoys support of Highlanders). Secondly Targ's indulged in incest all the time, a fact readily accepted by the church and by common folks so why is Cersei affair with her brother became such a huge issue (not in Septon's case but generally)? We don't see anyone from the public condemning Targs and its not like Targs were ancient or enjoyed a divine status in eyes of a common man e.g. the mad king is bad mouthed all the time.

In case of Ned (post Robert's demise) we see a Cersei far more clever and in control then the one right now. At that time she had a very few men in high positions yet she easily outsmarted Ned (who was the hand) now when she has almost the whole council dancing on her fingertips she is easily manhandled by High Septon! A case could be made if High Septon had been able to arrange a bigger army (that agreement for having a proper militant wing akin to Knights Templar) but that is not so at this point in time.

-continued

 

[Lilja]

I have read dance of dragons and I will expand a little on why I think the current backs are sub-par

-------------------WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD--------------------

- Bolton (both daddy and bastard) are don't fit, bastard far more so. From the earlier books we get the idea that people in North are tough as nails and huge on issues like honor and loyalty. That is why we hear time after time how Ned's unjust death rallied ALL of north behind house Stark. That is also why Rob was declared the King of North - North apparently didn't forget the defeat from Targaryens and still yearned for a free kingdom. In such an atmosphere Boltons simply don't fit with their flaying and all, specially the Bastard who time and again flaunts the rules and indulges in senseless butchery. The Bastard is simply too low brow and too much of a maniac to command any respect and loyalty in the North we know from earlier books. Similarly after what happened at Red Wedding it is simply inconceivable that North will rally behind Bolton with his luggage of a Frey Wife and alliances with Freys and Lannisters (don't forget every House in North lost people at red wedding).

For example lets take dog senior (man mountain), he is a maniac of equal footing yet he is true born and from a solid house. Even then Tywin (another heartless character) treats the man mountain essentially as a sell sword to scare his enemies never for more respectable jobs. Man Mountain's reputation being the decisive factor yet here we have Boltons duo running wild in a place (North) which is presented as being far more honorable. Whats more before the death of Joff one could at-least make the case that North was subdued because Joff was considered the rightful heir and had the might of whole kingdom behind him but after death of Tywin and disgrace of kingslayer Boltons should be losing support rather then gaining it.
(For the two Stark kids it was Theon not the bastard, his bride is fake Arya so there isn't much which makes him indispensable for the story)

- Cersei's walk of shame was poorly pulled. For one thing we never get the idea in earlier books that the High Septon could pull such a stunt and challenge the writ of King - Septons are presented as completely lacking any stature in the Kingdom yet here is one who makes the mother of the king go through the walk like he wields all the power (infact he is also threatening the will-be wife of the king with complete impunity so its not like he enjoys support of Highlanders). Secondly Targ's indulged in incest all the time, a fact readily accepted by the church and by common folks so why is Cersei affair with her brother became such a huge issue (not in Septon's case but generally)? We don't see anyone from the public condemning Targs and its not like Targs were ancient or enjoyed a divine status in eyes of a common man e.g. the mad king is bad mouthed all the time.

In case of Ned (post Robert's demise) we see a Cersei far more clever and in control then the one right now. At that time she had a very few men in high positions yet she easily outsmarted Ned (who was the hand) now when she has almost the whole council dancing on her fingertips she is easily manhandled by High Septon! A case could be made if High Septon had been able to arrange a bigger army (that agreement for having a proper militant wing akin to Knights Templar) but that is not so at this point in time.

-continued

The question as to why Bolton men were allowed so much rein in the area. Bolton is a very old house, when the North had its own constituency the Northern Kings outlawed flaying in the land altogether and as Boltons swore allegiance to the Northern kings, they had to bend to their will even though their tradition of flaying long past preceeded northern kingship which is why men like the Boltons can only be controlled through power and not by morals as they dont believe in them. Now why did the bolton bastard ever had so much power. Bolton sr raped a poor farmers wife and thus Bolton Jr was born, he had that degenerate gene in his which made him mentally unstable but the lack of upbringing and royal education and training also made him out of control and a maniac. Bolton sr had vast knowledge, training and cunning and therefore has more practicality in him while Bolton jr is guided by pure lust of power and his fascination for the morbid.

The Targareyens have way more power in the essence that they are the sole surviving generation from Valerya, the most powerful magical kingdom anywhere in the song of ice and fire, once destroyed. Their incest was tolerated among westeros because A. it was in their genes and was a tradition ever since their family started as they wanted their descendants to be of pure blood but the gene degeneracy continued like they say, God flips a coin each time a Targeryan is born. The only exception being the marriage of that Martell princess to Prince Rhaegar to accumulate more power.

As for the dogs, no they are not a noble or strong house. They were given lordship when one of their ancesters saved a royal from a wild lioness once and that was it. They are mostly used as henchmen because of their thickheadedness, sheer power and lack of any vision. Whereas the Boltons ancestry is pure blood and they were always lords of the north.

Cersie NEVER outsmarted Ned Stark. The only downfall of Ned Stark was that he was too honest and honorful for his own good. Do you remember the time when the king was dying and Renly advised Ned Stark to abduct the children and he could provide force to over power Cersie and her force because at that time the king was still alive and Renly and Ned Stark had more power to continue what was planned, Ned being the King Regent untill Geoffery was of age. Instead Ned went on to trust Baelish on behalf of his wife. THIS is what enabled Cersie to challenge the writ of king. Septon had no way of challenging except of whispering in ears of Cersie for her moves which was all he could do and also did in the ears of the Mad King.

As for why Cersie couldnt get away with incest, reiterating again, Targareyans indulged in incest becuase it was in their tradition and also because they came from a foreign land and followed a different religion. People of westeros even if thei followed the trees or the seven gods, nowhere was incest acceptable therefore it was unthinkable that any house of westeros origin could indulge in such a shameful act.

The north would never rally behind the Boltons. which brings us to a very interesting turn. Right now the Boltons have a lot of power because of the Lannisters and the lords of the north can not over power him because most of northern heads of families have been murdered so far. One important thing is that Bolton holds fake arya which nobody in the north knows. They only know that all of the starks are dead, Sansa is married to the lannisters and the only living heir now is Arya Stark who is married to a bolton who is also from north. They will never follow the boltons, but if it ever comes to news that Arya and Bolton have a heir, he would be held as the king in the north whether or not anybody likes it. Even despite of the fact that the north hates the boltons because of the torture boton jr inflicts on arya.
(The important thing is what he has MADE people think not what actually is happening) and there in lies the central plot)

In the coming season, the power of the lannisters will look diminshed because Tywin is dead, Jamie is too unstable and lacks the vision to rule a kingdom, Cersies son is too young to comprehend the antics of Boton Sr and Cersie is plain dumb, however cunning she might think she is. Therefore it wont be a surprise if Boltons have enough power now to hold off the north for the time being unless somebody else comes to claim the throne.

Each character has a very important role and the story is unfolding beautifully. P.S, a septon could never bring up an army. He lacks resources, the city is starved and would kill him in an instant, sellswords require money and the knoghts would never give their allegiance to a mere septon.

 

[jamahir]

1984 George Orwell

i recommend...

1. the green book, by muammar gaddafi and others... i read this in late 2010... ( The Green Book ).

2. das kapital, by karl marx... strangely, i have never read it despite being a hardcore socialist... i will buy this work soon from a second-hand shop.

 

[Lilja]

I have Das Kapital and havent read it yet. i have this weird obsession of getting every book i like and now i have dozens waiting in que :p

P.S im a capitalist

 

[jamahir]

P.S im a capitalist

well, we commies respect ladies... and we need ladies like you [ i blush ] to forward the green march or the red march... it is a matter of time before you are taken into the socialist fold [ here i laugh like a james bond villain ]...

I have Das Kapital and havent read it yet. i have this weird obsession of getting every book i like and now i have dozens waiting in que :p

same here... i have some books unread or partially read, among them - iqbal ( by zafar anjum ), listening to grasshoppers ( by arundhati roy ), do androids dream of electric sheep ( philip k dick, of course ), 1434 ( by gavin menzies, about china, zheng he and all ), street fighting years ( by tariq ali )...

until i read them, they at least will serve visitors as sign of my intellectual superiority over the common masses...

by the way, is your name pronounced "lil-ya" like a east european name?? and what is the meaning??

 

[Winchester]

First law trilogy is already in my 'to-read' list. Unfortunately here in Malaysia I have been able to find only the top best-sellers so it'll have to wait till I visit Singapore which rumors go has some great book stores offering a far wider variety in fiction.

add the Mistborn trilogy by Brandon Sanderson to it
infact the Mistborn books are my favorites

 

[Lilja]

well, we commies respect ladies... and we need ladies like you [ i blush ] to forward the green march or the red march... it is a matter of time before you are taken into the socialist fold [ here i laugh like a james bond villain ]...



same here... i have some books unread or partially read, among them - iqbal ( by zafar anjum ), listening to grasshoppers ( by arundhati roy ), do androids dream of electric sheep ( philip k dick, of course ), 1434 ( by gavin menzies, about china, zheng he and all ), street fighting years ( by tariq ali )...

until i read them, they at least will serve visitors as sign of my intellectual superiority over the common masses...

by the way, is your name pronounced "lil-ya" like a east european name?? and what is the meaning??

yup, its spelled as lilya, 2 references, Lilja precision rifles and lilja from the russian movie LILJA 4EVER

p.s, im a very strict capitalist junkie. i drink ayn rand :p

 

[jamahir]

p.s, im a very strict capitalist junkie. i drink ayn rand :p

yup, its spelled as lilya, 2 references, Lilja precision rifles and lilja from the russian movie LILJA 4EVER

so not your real name then, or is it...

the rifle company... do they only produce hunting rifles, or sniper rifles too??

the film... seems like a existentialist film for the earlier russia... i don't know if such a film will be made for today's russia.

by the way, have you seen "the stalker" by andrei tarkovsky... i found it both boring and interesting... wanting it to stop the metaphysical lectures but also wanting to watch it to the end...