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Which AESA radar fits better the JF-17 Block 3?

Which AESA radar fits better the JF-17 Block 3?

  • KLJ-7A AESA fire control radar

    Votes: 69 71.1%
  • Vixen 1000E AESA fire control radar

    Votes: 28 28.9%

  • Total voters
    97
  • Poll closed .
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Or when the item is fully functional but is inferior to competing products in all areas. Like it or not, that is the reality.

When I was active duty, we were very liberal with the label 'junk' for everything that we used or assigned to us that we know is far less preferable than its peers. You think the US soldiers were kind to the early M16 ? Even Eugene Stoner tried to distance himself from the rifle.

We are talking about warfare here. Lives are at stake. The soldier's, or airman's or sailor's, survival depends on the tools immediately on hand. If any group that has a right to liberally cast the word 'junk' -- it is the military.
You guys can keep calling it "junk", and we will buckle down to improve. I feel I get more matured after this, I wanna be a warrior.
 
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Hi,

When it was available in 2012-2014---it was a different aircraft---. The arrogance of the Paf created the problem and not that of the J10's.

The Paf was wrongly betting on the DONE DEAL of the F16 BLK52 on the free money---and not understanding what had changed in the U S.

Plus some had bad mouthed the J10's---so it would be really really embarrassing for the Paf to go back to the J10's---.

The arrogance got the better of the Paf and not the J10---. Out of shame---the stuck to the F16---.

It is a TYPICAL pakistani trait---when they make a bad decision---they tend to drown in that decision.

That is what happened---nothing wrong with the J10B or J10C's.

Every aircraft has a set of capabilities. You evaluate every aircraft based on whether its capabilities satisfy your requirement. There are baseline requirements, then there are the advanced requirements. You may reject an aircraft because even though it satisfies all your baseline requirements, it doesn't have enough advanced capabilities. The PAF in recent years realizes exactly the capabilities it will end up having through JF-17, and has decided that obtaining another 4.5 gen aircraft would be too much overlap and redundancy at too high a cost. That is why they have moved on to targeting 5th gen. At this point, the only viable 5th gen platform that PAF has a chance to acquire is the J-20. It's NOT that J-10 is a bad aircraft, but rather, China has much more to offer.

@wanglaokan
 
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What I said about a Chinese product, it was taken personally as if I am insulting China. Very emotional reaction. I have been working with China before some of the forum contributors were born. I have personally met the Chairman on more than one Occasion. He gave me a Chinese name. Now do you think I hate China? Grow up. The personal attacks on me, or whether I am calling for attention, or if I have access or not are beneath me. It doesn't bother me. Thank you to both who attack me, or defend me. It helps me separate the men from the boys.
You seem to not have his problem in your disguised insult for me. Thanks.
I apologize for that perceived insult. It was a tongue in cheek. Its also an attempt to close the issue and move back to the interesting main topic. I do respect your knowledge and integrity, but maybe not your so called bluntness. I am not from China. I am from a tiny country, and I disagree with the way India is trying to isolate and hamper the progress of Pakistan. There is much respect for Pakistan for being able to stand up to the as much as 5x bigger Supa Powa.
 
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Don't be so sarcastic veteran, I think we have turned the page? Reconciliation.

You guys keep talking, and I want to be only a listerner.

Sarcasm is only to pull your leg. A discussion is a contribution by all participants, so I value your input, and learn a few things from you as well.

So when they say Spectra, is the emitter library not central to how it works? Or will the threat library have to be built from scratch by the IAF?

@halloweene @Taygibay

Every country will have their own TEL, this is not something manufacturers give out.
 
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You guys can keep calling it "junk", and we will buckle down to improve. I feel I get more matured after this, I wanna be a warrior.

Hi,

In american slang---junk has a different meaning---it can mean in relation to something else---.

A junk can be turned around and made into an acceptable functional piece.

Rome was not built in a day and neither was the high quality high grade modern day weapon.

For an american weapon---to understand the quality behind the product---you need to look back into the history of the united states and its geography---.

A man went into the wilderness and only thing protecting him was his weapon---it had to fire and fire correctly every time that he needed it to and sometimes over vast distances---.

And as the enterprises were personal and non governmental---the person whose name was stamped on the weapon---made sure it met the quality standard.

OTOH---in china---the factory was owned by the govt---which just needed a high production rate and bare minimum quality control---.

So---if you look at it in that perspective---the chinese weapons systems have come a long ways from where they were some 20 years ago---.

I mean to say---that you have made a 60-70 years leap in just about 20 years---which in itself is a miracle---.

Your leading product---the J20 is over 100 times superior to your leading aircraft of some 20 years ago---well that would make you proud and make you feel powerful---.

But otoh---the current leading enemy aircraft is 150 times superior to your leading aircraft of 20 years ago.

The term superiority of a weapons system---it is always a relative term---it is always in relation to something existing in the arena---.

So---an item maybe a junk in a certain arena---but a game winner in another---.
 
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Hi,

In american slang---junk has a different meaning---it can mean in relation to something else---.

A junk can be turned around and made into an acceptable functional piece.

Rome was not built in a day and neither was the high quality high grade modern day weapon.

For an american weapon---to understand the quality behind the product---you need to look back into the history of the united states and its geography---.

A man went into the wilderness and only thing protecting him was his weapon---it had to fire and fire correctly every time that he needed it to and sometimes over vast distances---.

And as the enterprises were personal and non governmental---the person whose name was stamped on the weapon---made sure it met the quality standard.

OTOH---in china---the factory was owned by the govt---which just needed a high production rate and bare minimum quality control---.

So---if you look at it in that perspective---the chinese weapons systems have come a long ways from where they were some 20 years ago---.

I mean to say---that you have made a 60-70 years leap in just about 20 years---which in itself is a miracle---.

Your leading product---the J20 is over 100 times superior to your leading aircraft of some 20 years ago---well that would make you proud and make you feel powerful---.

But otoh---the current leading enemy aircraft is 150 times superior to your leading aircraft of 20 years ago.

The term superiority of a weapons system---it is always a relative term---it is always in relation to something existing in the arena---.

So---an item maybe a junk in a certain arena---but a game winner in another---.
USA got talents from all over the world help them to build sophisticated weapon and China don't have. That's why they are super power and we are only regional power. It has the most complete and efficient organizational structure and motivation policy. It can invest in a project without any substantial consequence, only for foundational study. Anyway, China shall absorb the merits of USA to improve ourself. We can't be complacent, it's not the time yet. Even Ametican get complacent, they will start to lag behind. You guys wake me up, I know we have a long way to go. Our aim is to get closer with USA, before that all our weapon are junks. Work harder and harder to make it happen.
 
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USA got talents from all over the world help them to build sophisticated weapon and China don't have. That's why they are super power and we are only regional power. It has the most complete and efficient organizational structure and motivation policy. It can invest in a project without any substantial consequence, only for foundational study. Anyway, China shall absorb the merits of USA to improve ourself. We can't be complacent, it's not the time yet. Even Ametican get complacent, they will start to lag behind. You guys wake me up, I know we have a long way to go. Our aim is to get closer with USA, before that all our weapon are junks. Work harder and harder to make it happen.

Actually, a disproportionate number of PhDs in America are actually Chinese. The Chinese are some of the most intellectually brilliant people I have come across. You have some true mathematical geniuses in China, and most Chinese students take to science like fish to water. American 'greatness' is built on a steady supply of willing graduate/PhD students from countries like China, Pakistan, India etc.
 
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Actually, a disproportionate number of PhDs in America are actually Chinese. The Chinese are some of the most intellectually brilliant people I have come across. You have some true mathematical geniuses in China, and most Chinese students take to science like fish to water. American 'greatness' is built on a steady supply of willing graduate/PhD students from countries like China, Pakistan, India etc.
Donald trump is an asshole, but he is a very pragmatic President. I think he knows the importance of Pakistan more than Black Obama. Soon they will offer FMS to F16 BLk60 procurement. He respect China and he shall respect Pakistan as well. The legend of F16 will continue.
 
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USA got talents from all over the world help them to build sophisticated weapon and China don't have. That's why they are super power and we are only regional power. It has the most complete and efficient organizational structure and motivation policy. It can invest in a project without any substantial consequence, only for foundational study. Anyway, China shall absorb the merits of USA to improve ourself. We can't be complacent, it's not the time yet. Even Ametican get complacent, they will start to lag behind. You guys wake me up, I know we have a long way to go. Our aim is to get closer with USA, before that all our weapon are junks. Work harder and harder to make it happen.

A lot of Chinese defence industry is still taking input from espionage, much of how the Soviets build some of your core systems. In another decade of so, when Chinese are totally independent in their development, only then will they truly rise.

When I was your age, Made in Japan was Junk. To call something shit, we used to say its Japanese. China is on the same route. But I dont see who will replace China after this leap.
 
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Donald trump is an asshole, but he is a very pragmatic President. I think he knows the importance of Pakistan more than Black Obama. Soon they will offer FMS to F16 BLk60 procurement. He respect China and he shall respect Pakistan as well. The legend of F16 will continue.

The only reason for continuing with F16 is the established support we have in terms of maintenance, ground crews etc. I secretly wish we would wean ourselves away from it completely. There could be other reasons as well to which I am not privy.
 
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A lot of Chinese defence industry is still taking input from espionage, much of how the Soviets build some of your core systems. In another decade of so, when Chinese are totally independent in their development, only then will they truly rise.

When I was your age, Made in Japan was Junk. To call something shit, we used to say its Japanese. China is on the same route. But I dont see who will replace China after this leap.

Espionage could be one input, but the fact is China exports intellectual capital to all corners of the world. If even 1% of them return home, they bring back a wealth of knowledge which they can then put to good use.

And China isn't the only one guilty of espionage. I remember in the late 1990s there was a spate of news about chip designs submitted to Taiwanese firms for manufacture being stolen. Russia does it. And America makes it possible through sheer incompetence. There was a news of simulation software for stealth coatings being outsourced to Russian programmers! Finally, our Babur missiles are a shameless rip off of American Tomahawks. And there is no reason to believe we HAVEN'T benefited from that stealth coating on the downed chopper in OBL fiasco. And oh, Dr. AQ Khan brought knowledge of Uranium enrichment from Holland. Our missile program is based on North Korean initial designs.

The fact is, with a rover on the moon, the world's biggest radio telescope on the ground, and indigenous hi-tech products in all fields, China has already matured as a technology powerhouse.

@wanglaokan
 
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