Arsalan 345
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It would be suitable to remove that from your narrative, 1947, the first action of an independent state of Pakistan was aggression against India.
1965 was again unilateral agression against India; post 71, in a year India already demonstrated it's nuclear power, but took no action against the remnant of Pakistan post war, although Pakistani forces were decimated. So the Idea, India doesn't wants pakistan to exist never has or will hold true.
That again is due to your poor sense of history, tactically Kargil was similar to Operation Gibraltor of 65; in 34 years of planning, PA managed to modify it's tactics to "Janab Sardi mein chad jaate hain".
That is awesome, belief is a good thing, but when promulgated from PA, it lends itself to "1 mussalman greater than 10 hindus"; "Security of east lies in the west" and "Bleed India by 1000 cuts".These grand belief despite what your establishment would like for you to believe doesn't pan out the way they envision it.
Cool, read some of the views of "People from Pakistan"
Air Chief Marshal: Asghar Khan
Air Chief Marshal: Nur Khan
Brig (Retd) Saeed Ismat
Major (Retd.) Agha Humayun Amin
Col. S.G Mehd (SSG Commander)
(Combined military and service credentials that dwarfs pretty much every voice here)
What do you have to say about 1965 war?
If you were to ask me this question when I was a young officer, my reply would have been quite different because I fought in that war, saw tactical action and in my perception we did well and beat back the aggressor and won the war. As one matures, learns and has the ability to analyze, one begins to differentiate between myth and reality, of course, with the advantage of the hindsight. 1965 War manifested the shortsightedness and immaturity of our political and military leadership. Pakistan started with ‘Operation Gibraltar’ in Kashmir. We have been made to think it was very bold and imaginative in conception and prepared by a great General. In my opinion it was bold, unimaginative, unpracticable plan. It was not in harmony with prevailing environment in Indian Held Kashmir. It was based on dangerous assumptions and its time frame was unrealistic and quixotic. The plan reflected strategic naivety and immaturity. To top it all the preparation and subsequently the execution displayed lack of professionalism. Since it lacked politico-strategic framework and vision it placed Pakistan in a very precarious position. On its failure, ‘Operation Grandslam’ was launched, which did make military sense since it enjoyed the superiority of strategic orientation. The capture of objective (Akhnur Bridges) would sever the Indian lines of communication in Kashmir and force them to retract. This operation was to suffer a major setback when the advance was halted because of an explainable change of command in the middle of the battle. Indians were so threatened by this move that they attacked with full might across the international border threatening Lahore and Sialkot. Our leaders panicked, ‘Operation Grandslam’ was brought to a grinding halt. Later, a brilliantly conceived Riposte from Khem Karan failed because a correct mix of units was not mustered to achieve a superior relative strength situation at the right time at the right place. We won a lot of battles but lost the war as we failed to attain the political aim of defreezing and the ultimate liberation of the Kashmir. Ayub Khan thus ruined the national economy by one wrong decision that had taken him several years to build.
Brig (Retd) Saeed Ismat, SJ
Cover Story
This in short is Nur Khan’s version of 1965 war, which he calls an unnecessary war and says that President Ayub for whom he has the greatest regard should have held his senior generals accountable for the debacle and himself resigned.
This would have held the hands of the adventurers who followed Gen Ayub. Since the 1965 war was based on a big lie and was presented to the nation a great victory, the Army came to believe its own fiction and has used since, Ayub as its role model and therefore has continued to fight unwanted wars — the 1971 war and the Kargil fiasco in 1999, he said.
In each of the subsequent wars we have committed the same mistakes that we committed in 1965.
Air Marshal Khan demanded that a truth commission formed to find out why we failed in all our military adventures. It is not punishment of the failed leadership that should be the aim of the commission but sifting of facts from fiction and laying bare the follies and foibles of the irresponsible leaders in matters with grave implications for the nation. It should also point out the irregularities committed in training and promotions in the defence forces in the past so that it is not repeated in future
Nur Khan reminisces ’65 war - Newspaper - DAWN.COM
Excerpt From the conclusion:
Major (Retd.) Agha Humayun Amin:
Ambition, lust for glory etc are perfectly reasonable aspirations where they are matched with military talent pertaining to operational strategy, low intensity operations, strategic insight or statesmanship! All these were sadly lacking at all levels, except unit level bravery and enthusiasm! Gibraltar failed because of pure and unadulterated military incompetence and Akhtar Malik bears the principle responsibility for Gibraltar! The Grand Slam story was different!It wasnot a case ofbalanced distribution of lack of talent at all levels that resulted in the failure of Grand Slam! The principle reason why Grand Slam failed was delay in initial launching and change of command!
Grand Slam - A Battle of Lost Opportunities
this is your Air Chief Marshal Asghar Khan.
Some of Col. S.G Mehdi wisdom.
Conclusion by SSG’s commander: “Had our Government initiated a probe into concept, conduct and consequences of 1965 War’, and raised the curtain from the acts of gross omission or that of the criminal commission, the ignominy of 1971 could have been avoided. “
1965 War — Some Harsh Realities | Ehtisham Siddiqui
now before we wan't to diss Nur Khan and alike, just be aware that ACM Nur Khan is pretty much the template for a Hero, Took the Fight to Indians, Fought Israelis in 6 day war, Program director of F86 Sabre's, Diffused a Plane Hijacking single-handedly, built the frame work for PIA, Transformed Hockey, Squash and Cricket in pakistan. Pretty much a statesman of no comparison in contemporary Pakistan. I would pay heed to his words,
sir i can also quote lots of people who still believe that we did well in 65.problem is they are part of history.sir all these operations including operation gibraltar and kargil,they all started for the same purpose which is kashmir.kashmir is still a problem.problem is india behave like it has no army in kashmir and when locals start to fight against indian army,you blame us.this blame game will not end soon.
as an indian,you can say that kargil was a failed operation and it served no purpose but for pakistan,kargil was the beginning of more aggressive policy towards india.sir we have this belief that we can defeat you.we don't accept indian dominance.india should look at it's relations with bangladesh.india is dominating bangladesh.we don't want the same relation with india.
sir it's absolutely true that you don't accept pakistan. now look at bjp.look at your nation.everyone in your country wants to attack pakistan.past is history. pakistan can't take indian attacks lightly.india always wanted a reason to attack pakistan. right now india have the reason and will to attack pakistan but pakistan understands indian intention and we are ready.
you can blame us for operation gibraltar but in 71,india interfered in pakkistani politics and how can we forget the role of indian army for the liberation of bangladesh? you can't show yourself as a victim. pakistan still remembers indian army role. you should accept kashmir problem. as i said earlier,indians are not innocent and pakistan also made mistakes but it doesn't mean that you can conquer pakistan.pakistan still have the ability to win limited war. indian actually mobilized it's navy during kargil and wanted to start all out war because it favors india while pakistan did well. it was diplomatic pressure and nothing else. your ex generals even gd bakshi accepted that it was hard for india and that's why india used air force. when you expand any war against pakistan to multiple locations,it will become hard for pakistan to defend. you know it,we know it. 65,71 and kargil are all history.this is modern warfare.now i don't think that it will be easy for india to defeat pakistan.the situation in afghanistan is changing rapidly and it is in favor of pakistan. also countries specially china is a friend of pakistan.two good friends with one common enemy.sir this is not 65 or 71 where soldiers die without any support. today soldiers can carry portable missiles,air force has it's own role and war is very costly.it's not same old times.