Where did Iran and Israel split? (Were they even together truthfully?)

[mse21]

you guys think there is no religious changing in history?
some person can change his own religious and be a jew and can live in isreal.
like her
look like black british or might be an african american

with respect i had a jew classmate (a real mizrahi beaty girl)
not like this one from no where!
there must be differences between a jew and a zionist

 

[500]

Nothing like a good old "what aboutism" argument ie: Iran doesnt care about these terrible things other people have done so why should it care about the crimes of zionism,right?,right!.
Its basically one of the main standard ploys of the zionists to deflect attention and criticism,the other one being literally screaming "antisemite" or "antisemitism" at the top of ones lungs in the hope of intimidating people with accusations of racism/bigotry/prejudice etc..

If that were true dont you think iran would`ve just singled out its own jewish population,but then I think you know full well that irans problem with israel has nothing to do with judaism but with zionism.

1) You invent arguments that I never said. There is no any whatabout in my arguments. I just show that Iranian regime does not gшve a damn about Muslims or Palestinians. Its actually murders them.
2) Since Khomeini regime came to power in Iran Jewish population dropped about 10 times.

yeah that happend after we understand azerbaijan regim is your pupet and let your spies using its land
and after all yes there is a recent unclassified doc and some interview which shows the azeri soldiers left their position (by a former azeri governmental personal) which accused to done by iran so this is their own fault. and another interview from one of the high ranked irgc generals which is a turk!!! (azeri) and said we sent them soldier weapons (with c130)etc. after their formal request. elham aliev begged me to bring some iranian soldier to take back what their soldiers left!!!! after we arrived and trained some of them. they forced us leaving there because we pray! (and you know THEY ARE TRUE MUSLIMS!!!!) and still they own us about 30 million $. and they using nationalism in our azerbaijan and financing separatists yes we care but not about the backstabers.

Thanks for proving my point. You justify ethnic cleansing of 700 K Muslims and occupation of Muslim lands just because Azerbaijan has good relationships with Israel.

You are a perfect illustration of Khamenai regime.

 

[AmirPatriot]

Iran and Israel were never even together. The Israelis were the real profiteers in that "relationship", not us.

For example, when Iran and Israel were going to make a missile together in Project Flower, they conned us:

"According to a very senior source in the Israeli Military of Defence the weapons deal with Iran were fraudulent. With each of the six joint projects, the Israelis planned to deceive the Iranians by providing them only an outdated version of the weapon in question, while using Iranian money to build a new generation for Israel's exclusive use."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Flower

 

[Blue In Green]

Iran and Israel were never even together. The Israelis were the real profiteers in that "relationship", not us.

For example, when Iran and Israel were going to make a missile together in Project Flower, they conned us:

"According to a very senior source in the Israeli Military of Defence the weapons deal with Iran were fraudulent. With each of the six joint projects, the Israelis planned to deceive the Iranians by providing them only an outdated version of the weapon in question, while using Iranian money to build a new generation for Israel's exclusive use."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Flower

Very horrible thing to do, especially against an allied country.

 

[fitpOsitive]

You guys have no idea that what is going on. Trust me, Israel is enemy of every country, and Israel is friend of every country. It depends, whether it is in interest of Israelis to shake hands with you or slaughter you. Excuses are always in their pockets.
Btw, Israel sold much weapons to Iran, even after inqilab against Saddam. Actually Iraq would have to be destroyed, otherwise Saddam was no bad man for Israelis.

 

[Fafnir]

1) You invent arguments that I never said. There is no any whatabout in my arguments. I just show that Iranian regime does not gшve a damn about Muslims or Palestinians. Its actually murders them.
2) Since Khomeini regime came to power in Iran Jewish population dropped about 10 times.

Thats the perfect definition of a "whataboutism" ie: if you dont give a damn about those guys them why give a damn about anyone else.
If iran really hated jews there wouldnt be any iranian jewish population left period much less one with a reserved seat in the iranian parliament.

Very horrible thing to do, especially against an allied country.

But thats just it,they werent allies.To the israelis these countries are,to quote netanyahu "useful idiots",and thats about it with the perfect example of this being the us-israeli relationship.

 

[500]

Thats the perfect definition of a "whataboutism" ie: if you dont give a damn about those guys them why give a damn about anyone else.

I repeat there is no any whatabout in my post at all. I just prove that Iran does not give a damn about Muslims pr Palestinians and even slaughters them more than anyone else. Thats all.

If iran really hated jews there wouldnt be any iranian jewish population left period much less one with a reserved seat in the iranian parliament.

I repeat, since Khamenai junta came to power Jewish population of Iran has dropped 10 times. That shows terrible persecution. Arab population in Palestine grew more than 3 times meanwhile.

 

[Fafnir]

I repeat there is no any whatabout in my post at all. I just prove that Iran does not give a damn about Muslims pr Palestinians and even slaughters them more than anyone else. Thats all.


I repeat, since Khamenai junta came to power Jewish population of Iran has dropped 10 times. That shows terrible persecution. Arab population in Palestine grew more than 3 times meanwhile.

Here this might help you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
If the iranian government had decided to persecute irans jews then I very much doubt they would have let them keep their seat in the parliament,I also doubt they would have let any remain in iran at all,in fact khomeini himself said: "We recognize our Jews as separate from those godless, bloodsucking Zionists." and he also issued a fatwa decreeing that the Jews were to be protected which is a pretty funny thing to do for a group that you`re persecuting.Now as for those persian jews who left how do you know that simply wasnt to find better economic opportunities elsewhere just like the 200,000+ odd jews who left the soviet union in the mid 70s-late 80s to go to israel or the us.

 

[mse21]

Thanks for proving my point. You justify ethnic cleansing of 700 K Muslims and occupation of Muslim lands just because Azerbaijan has good relationships with Israel.

NO
you just approve your stupidity and just catch what you want
we just left them! nothing elese!
yeah those stupid soldiers left the line! they are responsible not iran
and some other soldier must defend them! and thats the aliev wants! and look what they did after too much kindness weapons training and etc. after some days of training forced them to leave! just because the commanders were muslim like them! and they pray!
so who is responsible? iran?
and you are such stupid as hell just because that period the isreal azerbaijan relation not this much high. so this is not about isreal azerbaijan relation.
and after that we just left them with you. their best friend. so why you didnot help them in this recent war???
im not khomeini fanboy.i see just whats going on in this region.
is there any problem in my comment choooooooosen person?

 

[VEVAK]

To premise this I want to say that I'm in no way trying to paint either the Iranians or Israelis in a positive or negative light as this post is all about an objective view of the Iranian-Israeli relations and why they are they way they are presently and the things/events that contributed to get it to where it is today. Furthermore I want to emphasize on the OBJECTIVE part of what it is I'm asking of the members on the PDF. Basically for all members who wish to contribute to this discussion I implore you all to exercise an academic objective perspective of the issue at hand and not to let personal emotions dictate what it is you post. To both Iranian and Israeli PDF members stay on subject and keep posts relative/objective as much as possible.

The question is indeed simple, "Where did Iran and Israeli split?". This question, innocent in nature, asks one to pontificate on the circumstances that led to the current near virulent animosity that both Iranian government and Israeli governments have towards each other.

Off the top of my head I know that Israel had renegaded on the pipeline deals and oil deals with Iran as well as a joint R&D of a ballistic missile (which Israel planned on giving Iran a gimped version of), at least this is what I've gathered. There is some people that have told me that Israel's Mossad along with USA's CIA were at the helm of The Shah's SAVAK and basically controlled and operated them in certain aspects, the same SAVAK that contributed in the disappearance of millions of Iranians (looking for a viable source for this assertion).

For the Iranians why has the Palestine issue become and Iranian issue. This is something that an Iranian (everyday average Iranian) really has to critically think about as it asks an important question of "why us?" Why do Iranians have to fight for Palestine and their cause? Is it because Islam dictates to faithful muslims to fight for the freedom of Jerusalem? And on a extra note why is Iran's current military establishment so keen on using Arabic words and phrases for so many of it's exercises, weapons designations, Air defense systems titles etc, etc.... (I'm assuming that this ties in to the deep religious involvement in the military but still some clarification would be welcomed). I can objectively see why Iran helped the Lebanese and the creation of Hezbollah but Hamas is another story and I only see mainly negatives in that respect.

Did Israel kill a certain number of Iranians to warrant this kind of response did Iran do the same to Israel?

What did Israel exactly do to Iran for the Iranian government to have such a hostile/critical stance against the Israeli government and VICE VERSA, What did the Iranians do to Israel that makes the Israeli government so hostile/critical of the Iranian government. Do notice that I in fact view both the Israeli government and Iranian as legit governing bodies not "regimes" (I'm trying to refrain from using that word as it carries a heavy negative connotation).

Given that the cultures of Iran and Israel are very similar (if not out right the same/identical, at least this is what I gather from a lot of people, maybe it's just Tehran and Tel Aviv cultures that share this similarity). Is there chance of meaningful rapprochement between the two nations peoples and governments (I honestly don't see much problem between Iranians and Israeli citizens as this really does come off as an gov VS. gov scenario).. From an outside point of view Iranians and Israelis teaming up is as natural as peanut butter and jelly honestly (both identify with being a none-arab well mostly none-arab nation/cultures, both have an wholly unique identity and long history although this is a point of contention for those who don't think of the Israel of today as having any connection to the Israel of thousands of years ago, I don't want to get into that honestly just wanted to note that).

What would Iran and Israel have to do for one another of the hostiles to end?

Some more things to think about and ponder if anyone one participating wishes do so is where will each countries future truly take them? Iranians are mainly secular yet the government is very religious so when will the government naturally shift to more accurately reflect the population in which it's supposed to represent? (theres no avoiding this fact).

In closing I would will unabashedly ask for all who participate in this discussion to try to bring in as many as they can into it (those who wish to interact in a productive way of course) since most of the time I post threads on here they die rather quickly and only a few posts that are relevant are made. If it does not garner much attention then eh, I tried lol.

@AmirPatriot @Mountain Jew @500 @yavar @Arminkh @Serpentine @VEVAK @One-Above-All @DavidSling @mohsen @SOHEIL @OldTwilight @Beny Karachun @SubWater @2800 @PeeD @raptor22 @sobhan @mse21 @WordsMatter @Natan @

The rift has more to do with Iran's deep historical religious ties with Shiites in Lebanon than the Israeli-Palestinian issue but the Palestinian issue just further compounds that rift!

Iran is a theocratic republic and it may be a republic but it still remain a theocracy so those deep historic religious ties become more important!

How can Iran's relationship with Israel improve? I would say
1.Both the U.S. & Israel have to accept Iran's role in the region, stop anti-Iranian propaganda & remove all sanctions & embargos against Iran.
2.Both the U.S. & Israel have to accept Hezbollah as a political party in Lebanon & remove them from all Terrorist lists.
3.Israel would have to come to some kind of understanding with an elected Palestinian government.