Where did Iran and Israel split? (Were they even together truthfully?)

[Blue In Green]

To premise this I want to say that I'm in no way trying to paint either the Iranians or Israelis in a positive or negative light as this post is all about an objective view of the Iranian-Israeli relations and why they are they way they are presently and the things/events that contributed to get it to where it is today. Furthermore I want to emphasize on the OBJECTIVE part of what it is I'm asking of the members on the PDF. Basically for all members who wish to contribute to this discussion I implore you all to exercise an academic objective perspective of the issue at hand and not to let personal emotions dictate what it is you post. To both Iranian and Israeli PDF members stay on subject and keep posts relative/objective as much as possible.

The question is indeed simple, "Where did Iran and Israeli split?". This question, innocent in nature, asks one to pontificate on the circumstances that led to the current near virulent animosity that both Iranian government and Israeli governments have towards each other.

Off the top of my head I know that Israel had renegaded on the pipeline deals and oil deals with Iran as well as a joint R&D of a ballistic missile (which Israel planned on giving Iran a gimped version of), at least this is what I've gathered. There is some people that have told me that Israel's Mossad along with USA's CIA were at the helm of The Shah's SAVAK and basically controlled and operated them in certain aspects, the same SAVAK that contributed in the disappearance of millions of Iranians (looking for a viable source for this assertion).

For the Iranians why has the Palestine issue become and Iranian issue. This is something that an Iranian (everyday average Iranian) really has to critically think about as it asks an important question of "why us?" Why do Iranians have to fight for Palestine and their cause? Is it because Islam dictates to faithful muslims to fight for the freedom of Jerusalem? And on a extra note why is Iran's current military establishment so keen on using Arabic words and phrases for so many of it's exercises, weapons designations, Air defense systems titles etc, etc.... (I'm assuming that this ties in to the deep religious involvement in the military but still some clarification would be welcomed). I can objectively see why Iran helped the Lebanese and the creation of Hezbollah but Hamas is another story and I only see mainly negatives in that respect.

Did Israel kill a certain number of Iranians to warrant this kind of response did Iran do the same to Israel?

What did Israel exactly do to Iran for the Iranian government to have such a hostile/critical stance against the Israeli government and VICE VERSA, What did the Iranians do to Israel that makes the Israeli government so hostile/critical of the Iranian government. Do notice that I in fact view both the Israeli government and Iranian as legit governing bodies not "regimes" (I'm trying to refrain from using that word as it carries a heavy negative connotation).

Given that the cultures of Iran and Israel are very similar (if not out right the same/identical, at least this is what I gather from a lot of people, maybe it's just Tehran and Tel Aviv cultures that share this similarity). Is there chance of meaningful rapprochement between the two nations peoples and governments (I honestly don't see much problem between Iranians and Israeli citizens as this really does come off as an gov VS. gov scenario).. From an outside point of view Iranians and Israelis teaming up is as natural as peanut butter and jelly honestly (both identify with being a none-arab well mostly none-arab nation/cultures, both have an wholly unique identity and long history although this is a point of contention for those who don't think of the Israel of today as having any connection to the Israel of thousands of years ago, I don't want to get into that honestly just wanted to note that).

What would Iran and Israel have to do for one another of the hostiles to end?

Some more things to think about and ponder if anyone one participating wishes do so is where will each countries future truly take them? Iranians are mainly secular yet the government is very religious so when will the government naturally shift to more accurately reflect the population in which it's supposed to represent? (theres no avoiding this fact).

In closing I would will unabashedly ask for all who participate in this discussion to try to bring in as many as they can into it (those who wish to interact in a productive way of course) since most of the time I post threads on here they die rather quickly and only a few posts that are relevant are made. If it does not garner much attention then eh, I tried lol.

@AmirPatriot @Mountain Jew @500 @yavar @Arminkh @Serpentine @VEVAK @One-Above-All @DavidSling @mohsen @SOHEIL @OldTwilight @Beny Karachun @SubWater @2800 @PeeD @raptor22 @sobhan @mse21 @WordsMatter @Natan @

 

[Blue In Green]

To those wishing to project any of their anger on this thread please remind yourself that this is an academic discussion (or at least I like to view it as one). Getting mad online won't bring any real peace to your minds and will only serve to further taint the discussion.

Keep it classy gentlemen (and maybe a lady? lol)

 

[500]

Fact. There is no any reason for dispute between Iran and Israel.

Fact. Israel supported Iran during its harsh times.

Fact. Current Iranian regime does not give a damn about Muslims or "occupation":

1) It supports Armenia which ethnically cleansed over 700 thousand Muslims and occupied 20% of Azerbaijan.
2) It supports Russia which murdered over 100 K Muslims in Chechnya.
3) It supports Sudan's Bashir, which genocides Muslims including use chemical weapons rape and corps and burning villages.
4) Finally it DIRECTLY supports biggest ethnic cleansing and genocide of Muslims in history in Syria.

Fact. Current Iranian regime does not give a damn about Palestinians:

It supports Assad regime which committed uncounted number of terrible crimes against Palestinians. From Tal Zaatar massacre in 1976 to latest sadistic destruction of Palestinian refugee camp in Dar'a in 2017. These crimes include slaughter, indiscriminate bombs. starvation. torture, gassing and more.

Fact: despite their daily threats against Israel they have not sent a single soldier to fight Israel. Yet many Iranian GENERALS were killed killing Muslims in Syria.

So whats the point of their anti Israeli stance? - They need to distract people from their crimes and poor economical situation. Blame Jews is the oldest trick in the book.

 

[Blue In Green]

Fact. There is no any reason for dispute between Iran and Israel.

Fact. Israel supported Iran during its harsh times.

Fact. Current Iranian regime does not give a damn about Muslims or "occupation":

1) It supports Armenia which ethnically cleansed over 700 thousand Muslims and occupied 20% of Azerbaijan.
2) It supports Russia which murdered over 100 K Muslims in Chechnya.
3) It supports Sudan's Bashir, which genocides Muslims including use chemical weapons rape and corps and burning villages.
4) Finally it DIRECTLY supports biggest ethnic cleansing and genocide of Muslims in history in Syria.

Fact. Current Iranian regime does not give a damn about Palestinians:

It supports Assad regime which committed uncounted number of terrible crimes against Palestinians. From Tal Zaatar massacre in 1976 to latest sadistic destruction of Palestinian refugee camp in Dar'a in 2017. These crimes include slaughter, indiscriminate bombs. starvation. torture, gassing and more.

Fact: despite their daily threats against Israel they have not sent a single soldier to fight Israel. Yet many Iranian GENERALS were killed killing Muslims in Syria.

So whats the point of their anti Israeli stance? - They need to distract people from their crimes and poor economical situation. Blame Jews is the oldest trick in the book.

I don't think this is a "blame Jews" thing it's a blame Israel thing (if it even is that truly).

 

[Tokhme khar]

We don't object to your TOI/ bbc/ cnn rants here. However we do object that you are not under us (historically)....but rather under the shitbilly who would gladly throw you in gas chambers without hesitation!

Iran saved your sorry ***'s three times in history.........as recently recounted by Mr Zarif. Without us you'd have been long extinct.

Fact. There is no any reason for dispute between Iran and Israel.

Fact. Israel supported Iran during its harsh times.

Fact. Current Iranian regime does not give a damn about Muslims or "occupation":

1) It supports Armenia which ethnically cleansed over 700 thousand Muslims and occupied 20% of Azerbaijan.
2) It supports Russia which murdered over 100 K Muslims in Chechnya.
3) It supports Sudan's Bashir, which genocides Muslims including use chemical weapons rape and corps and burning villages.
4) Finally it DIRECTLY supports biggest ethnic cleansing and genocide of Muslims in history in Syria.

Fact. Current Iranian regime does not give a damn about Palestinians:

It supports Assad regime which committed uncounted number of terrible crimes against Palestinians. From Tal Zaatar massacre in 1976 to latest sadistic destruction of Palestinian refugee camp in Dar'a in 2017. These crimes include slaughter, indiscriminate bombs. starvation. torture, gassing and more.

Fact: despite their daily threats against Israel they have not sent a single soldier to fight Israel. Yet many Iranian GENERALS were killed killing Muslims in Syria.

So whats the point of their anti Israeli stance? - They need to distract people from their crimes and poor economical situation. Blame Jews is the oldest trick in the book.

 

[Blue In Green]

We don't object to your TOI/ bbc/ cnn rants here. However we do object that you are not under us (historically)....but rather under the shitbilly who would gladly throw you in gas chambers without hesitation!

Iran saved your sorry ***'s three times in history.........as recently recounted by Mr Zarif. Without us you'd have been long extinct.

So quite literally you did the exact thing I wanted not to happen. You don't have to throw unecessary curse words at a person you're trying to have a discussion with in order to prove a point let alone state one.

You can simply say " we object your claims and we had came to the Jewish people's aid three times in the course of history". Atleast this adds a certain eir of professionalism to what it is you're tryin to convey.

 

[Natan]

The question is indeed simple, "Where did Iran and Israeli split?"

Simple questions deserves simple answer: 1979 Islamic revolution.

Will there be peace? Not with the ayatollahs regime.

 

[Tokhme khar]

I'm sorry. It may be that you are Iranian jew yourself (good for you). But ehsaan faramoshi is not looked at positively in our culture. And neither is the killing or occupation of innocents in Palestine. Iran does not tolerate apartheid, racism or genocide. Our 2500 year old recorded history proves that.

So quite literally you did the exact thing I wanted not to happen. You don't have to throw unecessary curse words at a person you're trying to have a discussion with in order to prove a point let alone state one.

You can simply say " we object your claims and we had came to the Jewish people's aid three times in the course of history". Atleast this adds a certain eir of professionalism to what it is you're tryin to convey.

 

[Blue In Green]

I'm sorry. It may be that you are Iranian jew yourself (good for you). But ehsaan faramoshi is not looked at positively in our culture. And neither is the killing or occupation of innocents in Palestine. Iran does not tolerate apartheid, racism or genocide. Our 2500 year old recorded history proves that.

Fair statement and dully noted. This is a respectable way to respond to someone.

 

[Tokhme khar]

Listen to me.......Israel is on borrowed time. Once you go down the apartheid route, its over. Don't be surprised if Iran ends up saving these Jews for the fourth time. You think the shitbilly would save them? or do you think Israel's covert nukes will? Did they save South Africa?..or the Soviet Union.....lol

In the entire rotten middle east......and I'm not joking here.......which other country would take them in......?......lol....

You understand?

Fair statement and dully noted. This is a respectable way to respond to someone.

 

[Blue In Green]

Oh Fafnir, I'm sorry lol I meant to add you in the mentions list.

 

[Fafnir]

Fact. There is no any reason for dispute between Iran and Israel.

Fact. Israel supported Iran during its harsh times.

Fact. Current Iranian regime does not give a damn about Muslims or "occupation":

1) It supports Armenia which ethnically cleansed over 700 thousand Muslims and occupied 20% of Azerbaijan.
2) It supports Russia which murdered over 100 K Muslims in Chechnya.
3) It supports Sudan's Bashir, which genocides Muslims including use chemical weapons rape and corps and burning villages.
4) Finally it DIRECTLY supports biggest ethnic cleansing and genocide of Muslims in history in Syria.

Fact. Current Iranian regime does not give a damn about Palestinians:

It supports Assad regime which committed uncounted number of terrible crimes against Palestinians. From Tal Zaatar massacre in 1976 to latest sadistic destruction of Palestinian refugee camp in Dar'a in 2017. These crimes include slaughter, indiscriminate bombs. starvation. torture, gassing and more.

Fact: despite their daily threats against Israel they have not sent a single soldier to fight Israel. Yet many Iranian GENERALS were killed killing Muslims in Syria.

So whats the point of their anti Israeli stance? - They need to distract people from their crimes and poor economical situation. Blame Jews is the oldest trick in the book.

Nothing like a good old "what aboutism" argument ie: Iran doesnt care about these terrible things other people have done so why should it care about the crimes of zionism,right?,right!.
Its basically one of the main standard ploys of the zionists to deflect attention and criticism,the other one being literally screaming "antisemite" or "antisemitism" at the top of ones lungs in the hope of intimidating people with accusations of racism/bigotry/prejudice etc..

So whats the point of their anti Israeli stance? - They need to distract people from their crimes and poor economical situation. Blame Jews is the oldest trick in the book.

If that were true dont you think iran would`ve just singled out its own jewish population,but then I think you know full well that irans problem with israel has nothing to do with judaism but with zionism.

 

[mse21]

Fact. Current Iranian regime does not give a damn about Muslims or "occupation":

yeah that happend after we understand azerbaijan regim is your pupet and let your spies using its land
and after all yes there is a recent unclassified doc and some interview which shows the azeri soldiers left their position (by a former azeri governmental personal) which accused to done by iran so this is their own fault. and another interview from one of the high ranked irgc generals which is a turk!!! (azeri) and said we sent them soldier weapons (with c130)etc. after their formal request. elham aliev begged me to bring some iranian soldier to take back what their soldiers left!!!! after we arrived and trained some of them. they forced us leaving there because we pray! (and you know THEY ARE TRUE MUSLIMS!!!!) and still they own us about 30 million $. and they using nationalism in our azerbaijan and financing separatists yes we care but not about the backstabers.

Fact. Current Iranian regime does not give a damn about Palestinians:

like those missiles! dropped from skies! huh?! oh no saudis gave them!
how many massacre isrealis did?
with all those WP bumb bombs in a besieged area! you know WP is very precise!
let me put all your tech support and air superiority aside
huh chooooooooosen person?!

Fact: despite their daily threats against Israel they have not sent a single soldier to fight Israel. Yet many Iranian GENERALS were killed killing Muslims in Syria.

yes like those 4 high ranked irgc in 80s
or you know not a single as hezolah.
they vanquished HTS these 2 past days and look how they fought.
----
oh and about these laughable statements

2) It supports Russia which murdered over 100 K Muslims in Chechnya.
3) It supports Sudan's Bashir, which genocides Muslims including use chemical weapons rape and corps and burning villages.
4) Finally it DIRECTLY supports biggest ethnic cleansing and genocide of Muslims in history in Syria.

2. iran had no role in both chechen war. and just search and see how many of isis is from chechnya.
3. dont force me to change this forum to a syrian civil war explanation. and that flase flag chemical. every front they loose start yelling chem which they are accused to doing that on kurds!!!
4. they are mostly sunnis . even in SAA . we dont need a genocide like what you did in palestine.
oh hey
DO YOU KNOW YOUR AIRFORCE CALLED JIHADIS AIRFORCE?!
NO?!
I love your facts
edit
do you know why iran suffer from sanctions?
it means iran is worth than us puppets?
they (puppets) did not seek for nuclear bobms? like funding iraq (which both of us bombed!) nuclear program and pakistan.
iran spearding wahabism?!
thats all because of palestine

 

[mohsen]

the problem isn't just between Iranian and Zionist, it's a worldwide conflict between greedy/cunning Zionists and humans throughout the history.

the fact is that Zionist have been hated by all people around the world throughout the history, even in the U.S people despised jews (mistakenly instead of Zionists) till a few decades ago. it was till they decided to infiltrate in their media and of course U.S officials who weren't better than them decided to use them to strengthen their own position.

there is an ancient hostility between Persians and Zionists , in which they managed to penetrate in Iranian royal court and kill 70000 Iranian, to this day they celebrate their massacre as the Purim festival.

yet the real problem started when Zionists started an ethnic cleansing and genocide in Palestine and Lebanon.
naturally Iranian like the rest of Muslims stood against their crimes.

during our revolution Zionists were supporting Iranian dictator cause a dictator is exactly what they love, supporting and training Shah torture agents were part of their crimes to make sure the revolution in Iran would be suppressed.
after the revolution they focused on helping the Iraq's dictator to make sure Iran wont win the war.
though their role was training and providing intelligence for Saddam, their main help was bombarding the Iraq's nuclear reactor (the reactor which Iranian air force already destroyed) to demonstrate the Iraqi dictator as an anti Israeli hero among the arabs and help him in recruiting mercenaries against Iran.


today their enemy is all the Muslims, but when Muslim countries are under the rule of bunch of dictators and pro-west agents who don't really do anything against Israel, the role of Iran becomes bolded.

 

[PeeD]

They are part of our neighborhood, starting with this two cases where they prove their loyalty and friendship till the last man:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Tyre_(332_BC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Gaza