Where Bangladesh succeeded and Pakistan failed

[Black_cats]

I'm definitely not claiming that. I am drawing the argument that economic growth does not necessarily translate to prosperity and Bangladesh is not exception. It's an impoverished country with one of the largest poor populations. Your people live in our country by the millions.

So don't embarrass yourselves by claiming false superiority over us.

Not all account has equivalent to 1 cr taka. Also a big portion of people don’t save money in bank specially the one accumulated black money. They store it outside of financial institution.

 

[nahtanbob]

Where did I say it wasn't a factor? I said it was a factor, but not the cause.

Not having women in the workforce didn't help, but that wasn't the reason why Pakistan economically torpedoed itself.

When you...

1. Destroy the industry that was capable of value-added exports (i.e., manufacturing);
2. Staff your state-owned enterprises with cheque collectors who never show up for work;
3. Give income transfers to the rich;
4. Perennially fund your expenses on credit;
5. Fight a decade-long civil war on the Afghan border
6. Plunder your nascent public funds (meant for education)
7. Give subsidies to the wealthy by using loans to artificially prop the currency (so they can import cheaper)
8. Kill any incentive for domestic investors to set up productive businesses
9. Incentivize said investors to pump their money into land via real-estate
10. Create a culture of thuggery, bribes, nepotism, etc to prop your political careers
11. Drive your best talent out of the country
12. ...etc...

...you're going to have a dozen other reasons as to the collapse of your economy than not having enough women working. Yes, female labour participation was a factor, but as I said, it wasn't the cause of the country's economic collapse. And hearing the likes of Miftah Ismail (who just served a government guilty of some of the policies above) center on it is deflective and a bit rich.

These idiots didn't run the country right, but they're blaming it on the public for having too many kids. It's the same BS right-wingers in Europe throw at immigrant birthrates, except in Pakistan's case, it's by an elite who doesn't give a damn about its own people and is looking for excuses to take the blame off their shoulders.

It is not like women are empowered and the economy grows overnight. you need a social/cultural environment where women feel empowered.

Most of the bullet points exist in India and Bangladesh to some degree

you left out military spending and conflict with India

 

[Black_cats]

Bangladesh tea strike spotlights poorest workers' inflation plight​

Protests resume after offer of raise to $1.50 or 128 bangladeshi taka a day - far below $3 demand

Bangladesh tea strike spotlights poorest workers' inflation plight​

Protests resume after offer of raise to $1.50 a day -- far below $3 demand

Bangladesh tea strike spotlights poorest workers' inflation plight

Protests resume after offer of raise to $1.50 a day -- far below $3 demand

asia.nikkei.com

that not make bangladesh a rich country dude please stop whining our army chief will find its ways .


please stop lying its internet era

BANGLADESH-HEALTH-VIRUS-LOCKDOWN​

Rickshaw pullers eat food distributed by the non-profit organization Mehmankhana during nationwide lockdown imposed to curb the spread the Covid-19 coronavirus in Lalmatia area of Dhaka on July 7, 2021. (Photo by Munir Uz zaman / AFP) (Photo by MUNIR UZ ZAMAN/AFP via Getty Images)

Rickshaw pullers eat food distributed by the non-profit organization...

Rickshaw pullers eat food distributed by the non-profit organization Mehmankhana during nationwide lockdown imposed to curb the spread the Covid-19 coronavirus in Lalmatia area of Dhaka on July 7,...

www.gettyimages.ae

Now you need to post from corona virus lockdown?? Lol! Accept reality. We are not bankrupt yet like Pakistan. Fix your problems.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Who claims India is among the five richest countries ? It might be among the five largest economies

Bangladeshis wage wars against numbers and logic with religious vigor. You will meet many jamaatis here who would say BAL government fudged their GDP numbers and growth rate, and in some other India related threads, these same degenerates will claim Bangladesh has higher GDP/capita than India.

 

[Imran Khan]

They are your people. Just because someone Bengali doesn’t mean they are Bangladeshi. We made Indian radicals understand the same thing.

but they claim to be bangladeshi migrated to paksitan in 70 80 90s for better life . just to remind you benagldeshis collect garbage in gulf countries even today to earn 200$ per month sir .

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

And where do people not 'looking for handouts and easy money'? My conservative friends in America lament about how so many people are collecting various benefits and how so few people, relative to the population, pay taxes. One 'disabled' lady friend collecting 'Disability' and had her college loan written off even half-jokingly said that MY taxes are subsidizing her!!


Pakistan was ahead of Bangladesh most of Pakistan's history and can be ahead again. A large part of Pakistan's lower productive might be because a large part of the country is too macho to allow women's participation in the economy. Except for urban Sindh and urban Punjab, the mindset is of from centuries ago. But I also think Bangladesh has been greatly benefiting from political stability under Hasina for many years. Continuity of policies versus the chaos of the time when Hasina and Khalida were ripping BD apart. Pakistan faced political instability in the 'Lost Decade' of the 90s, then one of the worst era of terrorism, and now again political instability since April 2022. Bangladesh also benefits from the Peace Dividends with India, on which count Pakistan is in a very different situation.

But considering overall, Pakistan not only has larger agriculture potentials but also larger industrial and manufacturing potentials. Peace, stability and right leadership is needed.

When I talk about "looking for handouts and easy money" in Pakistan, I'm not talking about the actual poor. Still, the majority of our population is unaccounted for due to longstanding feudal and tribal dynamics. Those people have zero say in their own personal lives, much less about the economy or Pakistan. I genuinely feel sorry for them and 100% believe they're entitled to public education, subsidized healthcare, and jobs. They'll be productive.

Rather, I'm referring to the so-called middle, upper-middle, and upper classes -- they're the ones "looking for handouts and easy money." They're the ones who vote, the ones who serve as foot soldiers for their political party, leverage kinship ties to get unearned positions in the state, and so on.

When Ishaq Dar took out loans to prop up the PKR, he did it because PML-N supporters wanted the 'handout' of a stronger PKR to make their imports cheaper. Why? They ran businesses driven by imports, which they sold to the local market and, in turn, gutted our domestic producers and shuttled out our foreign currency.

Those businesses weren't just run by the top-most PML-N supporters, but lower-level supporters too. Layers and layers of people across multiple socio-economic groups who didn't have the vision or drive to build things from the ground up. They wanted the easy way, and they got it, at Pakistan's expense. @SQ8

 

[Imran Khan]

Now you need to post from corona virus lockdown?? Lol! Accept reality. We are not bankrupt yet like Pakistan. Fix your problems.

but but but rickshaws were banned 10 years ago and corona was 2 years ago right ??????? liars

BANGLADESH-TRANSPORT-PEOPLE​

Commuters make their way along a street amid dusty conditions in Dhaka on January 25, 2023. (Photo by Munir uz zaman / AFP) (Photo by MUNIR UZ ZAMAN/AFP via Getty Images)]]

Commuters make their way along a street amid dusty conditions in...

Commuters make their way along a street amid dusty conditions in Dhaka on January 25, 2023.

www.gettyimages.ae

 

[ThunderCat]

They are your people. Just because someone Bengali doesn’t mean they are Bangladeshi. We made Indian radicals understand the same thing.

I know the difference between ethnic Bengali and Bangladeshi citizen. Biharis who have Bangladeshi citizenship are Bangladeshis but not ethnic Bengalis.

However, I find it hard to believe Indian Bengalis will immigrate to Pakistan by the millions. All the Bengalis I knew in Karachi were Bangladeshis, even though only about a dozen people or so.

Most of them have gone because there were no job spaces for them and Pakistani immigration officials had been cracking down on them during the last ten years or so.

Also this is a Bangladeshi students association of Pakistan, not Indian students association: https://bsapk.tripod.com/

 

[Imran Khan]

Bangladeshis wage wars against numbers and logic with religious vigor. You will meet many jamaatis here who would say BAL government fudged their GDP numbers and growth rate, and in some other India related threads, these same degenerates will claim Bangladesh has higher GDP/capita than India.

well i have qestion here

if its middle income country why hundreds of thousands bangladeshis still work as garbage collectors in all gulf countries . why not poor indians and paksitanis replaced this job yet ? it is major source of income for bangladesh . each worker collect garbage on trucks or by walk to earn 200 -220 $ per month

 

[nahtanbob]

I'm definitely not claiming that. I am drawing the argument that economic growth does not necessarily translate to prosperity and Bangladesh is no exception. It's an impoverished country with one of the largest poor populations. Your people live in our country by the millions.

So don't embarrass yourselves by claiming false superiority over us.

Look at post # 24
"Larger economy does not translate to prosperity. Otherwise India is amongst the world's five "richest" countries, when the opposite is true."

And where do people not 'looking for handouts and easy money'? My conservative friends in America lament about how so many people are collecting various benefits and how so few people, relative to the population, pay taxes. One 'disabled' lady friend collecting 'Disability' and had her college loan written off even half-jokingly said that MY taxes are subsidizing her!!

As Mitt Romney put it - 47% do live off the other 47%

 

[ThunderCat]

but they claim to be bangladeshi migrated to paksitan in 70 80 90s for better life . just to remind you benagldeshis collect garbage in gulf countries even today to earn 200$ per month sir .

All while Bangladesh has a larger GDP than all these countries individually. Unless I am missing something.

Look at post # 24
"Larger economy does not translate to prosperity. Otherwise India is amongst the world's five "richest" countries, when the opposite is true."

I accidently skipped the word necesserily. I'll go ahead and fix it. But my argument still stands as valid.

If you are kid of rich father,you will not be worried of tomorrow.But if your father is poor ,and worried about your future, you study or work hard to earn some money or make your life and future better

Pakistan ,got hand outs and aid from US all these years and every thing was going smooth and the rulers became laid back and didnt felt motivated enough to lay developmental plans for future as they may have thought the aid (geographical rental) from US is perpetual !

If IK had not said absolutely not and said OK to US to have their bases,rentals would have poured..

Pakistan administrators /Generals,who got used easy money..instead of exploring ways to find a sustainable economy have decided to status quo and go back to US

Yeah we also got lots of bomb blasts and all sorts of terror attacks. Our economic losses were far more than gains. All this left out to prove the "self-sufficiency" of an agricultural & textile based economy.

 

[Tom-tom]

Fundamentally, the countries that economically succeed do so by having productive labour.

This often does involve adding women to the workforce, and that does help in making labour (for FDI, exports, etc) more attractive from a cost standpoint. But that in itself isn't the cause for economic success. It's a huge correlative factor, and I think a supporting factor, but not the cause.

The U.S., for example, was also an economic powerhouse prior to adding women to the workforce. Why? Because the U.S. had tuned its economy to produce things of value both domestically and for the world market. It had used its labour force (which was mostly males) in an efficient manner. Even as their population grew, they still managed to channel that labour growth in an efficient way.

However, in Pakistan, our society fell into the trap of "easy money."

From 1947, we had a creeping culture of giving 'supporters' easy jobs and access to resources. This culture was amplified manifold from the time of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto via the nationalization scheme that gave a lot of people easy wealth. In the following decades, programs like quota programs, income grants (BISP), etc, all compounded to get money into the hands of people who didn't earn it productively.

So, when the population grew, it grew in a cultural environment that didn't understand or value productivity. Worse, we never invested in education and skills training to put that population to work in an effective way. As a result, we ended up with a lot of people looking for handouts and easy money.

To prevent this inept population segment from revolting, our governments kept the easy ride system, but financed it through aid and, later loans. This, in turn, borked our ability to fund public programs (like education) by diverting more of our fiscal means to repaying debt and interest.

Anyways, if we had built a culture of 'earning your keep' instead of 'sticking your hand out,' then I think the population growth would've stabilized naturally (even in a conservative climate). But too many people got too much money too easily for decades, and that opened the floodgates to population growth, and we didn't have any plan to harness that labour pool productively.

The thing your not taking into account about u.s (although your points about pak society is also fair.) The u.s had black Americans to use and expolit in what ever means they wished, that were paid far less for similar manual skilled/semi - skilled/ unskilled work. Its deep and complex though

 

[Imran Khan]

All while Bangladesh has a larger GDP than all these countries individually. Unless I am missing something.



I accidently skipped the word necesserily. I'll go ahead and fix it. Buy my argument still stands as valid.

no sir its not

KSA is now 833BN$
UAE is 503bn$
qatar 285bn$
kuwait 220bn$
iman 16bn$
bhrain 75 bn$

 

[Hamza913]

I still don't understand why they keep migrating to Pakistan given all their economic success

 

[ThunderCat]

no sir its not

It's still above Oman & Bahrain. And even New Zealand the last time I checked.