Where are the boats?

[Solomon2]

Where are the Indus-capable patrol boats the U.S. and Germany delivered to Pakistan's MSF years ago? (I think Turkey supplied some, too.) Why were they not employed in the Choto Gang clean-up operation? Many policemen dead and injured.

At 40-50 feet, powerful engines, quarters for 6-10, and air-conditioning, these boats could have been re-purposed as pleasure motor yachts for corrupt officials. Is that what has happened? Why is there no hue and cry about this?

 

[RAMPAGE]

Why is there no hue and cry about this?

Don't know what boats you're talking about but there is no shortage of boats. The police suffered because of its own incompetence.

 

[Solomon2]

Don't know what boats you're talking about but there is no shortage of boats. The police suffered because of its own incompetence.

They were sent out in paddle boats. Where were the proper boats? How do you shoot and paddle at the same time? You can't, your group has to be trained for it. From the accounts I read the police tried to beg off, knowing they were inadequate...indeed, a riverine branch of the police was supposed to be trained and deployed in the area by February, but there's no record of its presence.

 

[RAMPAGE]

They were sent out in paddle boats. Where were the proper boats? How do you shoot and paddle at the same time? You can't, your group has to be trained for it. From the accounts I read the police tried to beg off, knowing they were inadequate...indeed, a riverine branch of the police was supposed to be trained and deployed in the area by February, but there's no record of its presence.

And who's fault is that?

 

[Solomon2]

And who's fault is that?

Exactly.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Exactly.

Not the Navy's, Surely?

 

[Solomon2]

Not the Navy's, Surely?

Boats given to the Navy's Maritime Security Force, which is supposed to train and make available its assets with police.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Boats given to the Navy's Maritime Security Force, which is supposed to train and make available its assets with police.

I didn't know that Katcha came under PN's jurisdiction.

which is supposed to train and make available its assets with police.

Says who? Even if it is, How do you know that the police requested those boats?

 

[Solomon2]

I didn't know that Katcha came under PN's jurisdiction.

Read carefully. It doesn't have to be for the PN to make MSF units available to law enforcement.

Says who? Even if it is, How do you know that the police requested those boats?

I bet you can find the answers as well as or better than I.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Read carefully. It doesn't have to be for the PN to make MSF units available to law enforcement.

I bet you can find the answers as well as or better than I.

So whose job is it?

 

[Gufi]

Boats given to the Navy's Maritime Security Force, which is supposed to train and make available its assets with police.

The police did not ask for the Army's help. They fudged up the report to make it seem that they had enough fire power while they were not even equipped properly. It was more of an egotistic issue which got them into this situation.

 

[risingsinga]

A typical third world problem, most of the aid never reaches the deserving people or the use for the right purpose. Corrupt govt officials and politicians usurp it right away. Pakistan is also one of the third world countries mired into corruption at all levels.

 

[Paksanity]

Where are the Indus-capable patrol boats the U.S. and Germany delivered to Pakistan's MSF years ago? (I think Turkey supplied some, too.) Why were they not employed in the Choto Gang clean-up operation? Many policemen dead and injured.

At 40-50 feet, powerful engines, quarters for 6-10, and air-conditioning, these boats could have been re-purposed as pleasure motor yachts for corrupt officials. Is that what has happened? Why is there no hue and cry about this?

Boats should be with Maritime Security Agency patrolling coasts of Pakistan. You are talking about these boats.

Those will be waayyyy down south as you can see.

In order to use them up north in Rajanpur area, Punjab government should have approached Federal government who would order Navy to position those boats in that specific area. To position them they could either be transported by road (best way) or sail upstream in Indus crossing three major barrages (not so good option). Navy does however keeps some boats which could be quickly deployed and would be more than sufficient for the job. Here is an example.

However what really happened is beyond incompetence of civilian agencies. Under strict instructions not to even inform military, Police chief orders district police to launch the operation. True to traditions of civilian institutions of Pakistan, he makes no arrangements to provide or arrange for the policemen what they need. He just threatens them and makes them launch the operation within two days. They beg for time and resources to prepare. Local police asks for a plan to gradually squeeze the outlaws into a pocket and then launch the attack. A fair plan in my assessment. Police chief who takes direct orders from brother of prime minister, scolds them, calls them cowards and pushes them into operation. And then he flies back to mega city of Lahore.

With meagre resources and foolish order to just charge in, what district police came up with, is this.

They hire fishermen boats in haste. Policemen volunteer to go on this fatal trip. Rest is history!

You can blame military all you want, they were never asked to do anything. Under the constitution, military can be ordered to assist civilian government. But military can not just barge in on its own. People cry foul then, you know.

 

[Solomon2]

You can blame military all you want, they were never asked to do anything. Under the constitution, military can be ordered to assist civilian government. But military can not just barge in on its own. People cry foul then, you know.

Sure - for the operation. But what about the training? Did the MSF & police get to train together with these boats or not? Responsibility for training is shared - and since in Pakistan the military has the lion's share in these matters, seeing it through is the PN's duty, yes?

 

[Paksanity]

But what about the training? Did the MSF & police get to train together with these boats or not?

No, they did not. At least police force which took part had no such training. As for those boats, I can say with certainty that those boats would not be used in police training. Maritime agency would be using these boats to guard coasts. Rivers are not their jurisdiction.

Responsibility for training is shared

No. MSF or navy is not responsible for training police. Police is a provincial department and military is federal. Training of police is responsibility of provincial government. In this case Shahbaz Sharif (younger brother of Nawaz Sharif) was responsible to train and equipment police force via Inspector General Punjab Police. Military has no role in this. Provincial government can ask military to assist in training in which case Provincial government is responsible to make arrangements for training while military can impart the training. KPK government requested such training from army which was given to them by army. Punjab government did not request such training except for some elite units of police. Those units are deployed on security details of politicians, their families and clergy (take that!).

Army can not impart Naval assault training. Navy was never asked to impart any training of this sort. Navy divers do perform duties in search and rescue if there is boat accident in rivers. Civilian government never developed such capacity.

- and since in Pakistan the military has the lion's share in these matters

It doesn’t. Army has actually been urging government to increase police capability to fight terrorism and has offered training. This only relieves military some pressure. But it did not happen except few cases. Police is used as personal militia of local politician. Politicians enroll their men from their clan and appoint them at key positions. This gives them the power to maintain control over their respective area. Some however do get selected on merit.

, seeing it through is the PN's duty, yes?

Absolutely not. PN will be stepping outside its constitutional domains if it tries to impart any training on its own.