When will the F-7s be replaced?

[nightrider_saulat]

by 2015 my final statement

 

[Sapper]

by 2015 my final statement

I think FT-7 will remain as primary advanced trainer for PAF.

Also the new F7PGs still have lots of hours left so they can keep going on for another decade or so.

Rest will be out as soon as JF-17s are in good enough numbers.

 

[PakShaheen79]

by 2015 my final statement

I don't think PAF can give any dead line for that matter as yet.

 

[TOPGUN]

I wonder these f-7's go ? sold to third world airforces or sold & used as scrap?

 

[PakShaheen79]

I wonder these f-7's go ? sold to third world airforces or sold & used as scrap?

Gave some of these to Engineering universities

 

[F111]

With indians upgrading their 21s, F-7s are in a serious disadvantage. Also I saw F-7s have lesser engine power than migs. After all this time the chinese can't provide a better engine for their reverse engineered mig-21s. No wonder they are having trouble with su-27 engines. I think i have the twr list from ats forum. I'll post it.

 

[Sapper]

With indians upgrading their 21s, F-7s are in a serious disadvantage. Also I saw F-7s have lesser engine power than migs. After all this time the chinese can't provide a better engine for their reverse engineered mig-21s. No wonder they are having trouble with su-27 engines. I think i have the twr list from ats forum. I'll post it.

I would like to bring another view point in this debate.

I don't know if everyone here knows this or not, but PAF has a serious deficiency of fighter pilots. I would prefer if the risky airframes of F-7s are retired, and rest converted to FT-7s if possible. This will allow a larger number of Pilots to undergo operational training and conversion, and hence would reflect in a good enough number of GDP pilots to equip PAF fleet on the whole.

 

[Wingman]

Perhaps F-7 PGs will remain there.

Yes PAF cannot give a clear dead line!!!

 

[ice_man]

well see all we need is an upgraded F7PG radar and avionics suit!! as well as a BVR capability!!! once we get that i think the F7PG is a great fighter.....

the indians did exactly the same with their Migs "Bison".....so yes BVR capability and good radar that can track multiplie targets as well as a whole upgraded pacakge of HUDs and we are good for atleast anotherdecade with the fast & nimble F7PGs!!

 

[nightrider_saulat]

well see all we need is an upgraded F7PG radar and avionics suit!! as well as a BVR capability!!! once we get that i think the F7PG is a great fighter.....

the indians did exactly the same with their Migs "Bison".....so yes BVR capability and good radar that can track multiplie targets as well as a whole upgraded pacakge of HUDs and we are good for atleast anotherdecade with the fast & nimble F7PGs!!

obviously not because indians have placed r-77 in their bisons
which have operational range is above 100 kmp/h
and our PGs radars can hardly have the radar contact up to 100 km
so there is no longer any means to place a BVR missile on our pgS

 

[ice_man]

well fine we don't need a big radar upgrade......something that is capable of a BVR of 60 km is good enough.... in a war scenario our F7s will take off from PESHAWAR and the enemy will be moving towards our border from adampur or halwara....meaning that 60 kms range of a BVR is good enough for us!!!

besides a BVR fired from 100 kms is less likely to reach its target so no big issues....

one you get a BVR for the F7s trust me it will be as good as a 4th generation fighter.....

 

[nightrider_saulat]

well fine we don't need a big radar upgrade......something that is capable of a BVR of 60 km is good enough.... in a war scenario our F7s will take off from PESHAWAR and the enemy will be moving towards our border from adampur or halwara....meaning that 60 kms range of a BVR is good enough for us!!!

besides a BVR fired from 100 kms is less likely to reach its target so no big issues....

one you get a BVR for the F7s trust me it will be as good as a 4th generation fighter.....

yeas in that scenario PGs will be very suitable
BVRs of 60 km range can surely be very be lethal in that case
but i don't think that our PGs will perform better then J-8 in close air combat

 

[ice_man]

obviously not because indians have placed r-77 in their bisons
which have operational range is above 100 kmp/h
and our PGs radars can hardly have the radar contact up to 100 km
so there is no longer any means to place a BVR missile on our pgS

what does india putting R-77 on their Bisons got to do with our own F7 avionics or fighters....fine they gt a good radar that and a good AAM good for them we can atleast try getting a BVR that can track targets 60 KMs out...hell any BVR is better than waiting for enemy having 3 or 4 gos with his BVR salvos from 100 kms out and closing....while you wait for your WVR shot!!!

 

[Taha Samad]

by 2015 my final statement

May be numbers would help.

PAF got around 120 F-7P
60 F-7PG
around 100-150 Mirages
40 odd A-5's
45 F-16's
i.e we need to replace around 260-320 aircrafts

PG's would be the last ones to go out

Now as most reports suggest we would have first 50 JF-17's by 2011.After 2011 if we assume a rate of 25 planes per year as suggested by ACM in his interview that means by 2015 we would have 150 JF-17's.
add to them 63 F-16's(45 MLU+ 36 blk 52+) +36 FC-20's+60 F-7pG's that makes a total of 310 fighters.So we still would be operating around 100 old fighters.

One scenerio is that PAF may be willing to reduce the total number of aircrafts which in my opinion will not be the case cause just across the border IAF would also have got a lot of new fighters(230 or more MKI's,depending on how LCA tuns out +126 MRCA's).

Hence in post 2015 scenerio if we give follow up orders of FC-20(50 or so) we would still need around 100 JF-17's to replace all our remaining mirages+pg's that means another 4 years so not before 2019

I would say inshah-allah on 23rd March 2020 national day parade we will only see FC-20's F-16's and JF-17's flying for PAF.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

what does india putting R-77 on their Bisons got to do with our own F7 avionics or fighters....fine they gt a good radar that and a good AAM good for them we can atleast try getting a BVR that can track targets 60 KMs out...hell any BVR is better than waiting for enemy having 3 or 4 gos with his BVR salvos from 100 kms out and closing....while you wait for your WVR shot!!!

AIM-phoenix used on F-14 can be a very good choice
we must need to negotiate with iranians on this matter
they surely would have this thing with them