When Islamic atheism thrived

[Hyde]

that was not a joke that was a serious question first of all sparkling has already debunked the pseudo scientific claims & secondly i just said that if God can split moons into two halves then he can certainly get it one piece with perfection

Of course God can certainly get it into one piece with perfection. But whether he did make it as one piece once again or left a visible mark should not be a matter of concern. Either ways i find his wisdom

The perfection in the roles & deeds of Muslims s very clear to everyone

Allama Iqbal says

Ho agar aaj bhi Ibrahim ka eeman paida
Aag kar sakti hai Andaz-e-Gulastan paida

Who exactly is a Muslim here? The Mullah's of TTP imposing their decisions on womens? A bunch of free thinkers challenging the existance of God? or a guy sitting in Norway paying INTEREST (the most disliked thing in Islam), or the Mullah's in the streets of Pakistan calling each other infidels and shouting like donkeys (as Qur'an says keep thy voice low; surely the most repulsive of voices is the voice of the A S S) or those young generation of brain washed peoples holding banners of "beheading and killing" forgetting this religion teaches peace.

I find no practicing Muslims around

whats silly? depends on how you define silly & BTW if would have been offended by a few bigots then i must have not been posting here

The definition of Silly is those who ask too many Y's. 1-2, 10 or 100 Y's in one topic are ok but leaving a question mark on each and everything is nothing but stupid and dumb thinking and not Free thinking.

Glad to hear that you are not offended

Bye

btw about Miracles please do read this post - believe or not thats upto you

http://www.defence.pk/forums/875020-post183.html

 

[DaRk WaVe]

the funny thing is some theists are doing all over the world is that they are condemning this artificial life as an act to challenge god & playing with God

AFP: Italian bishops concerned by synthetic life cell

& BTW here is Press Conference Craig Venter

 

[MilesTogo]

Anyway, the very first post of this thread was an expression of great confusion on part of its author. Human mind is capable of distinguishing between good and bad hence needs no guidance.... Correct, very correct.... is that why people lie? commit homicides? destroy livelihoods? do corruption? So those who came up with the idea of law and order were idiots? the folks who wrote down constitutions were fool? the birth of religions was useless ?

Because human mind is capable of distinguishing between good and bad, "lie", "murder", "curruprion" etc. are percieved negatively universaly.

Because human mind is capable of distinguishing between good and bad, people came up with the idea of law, order and constitution.

 

[qsaark]

& BTW here is Press Conference Craig Venter

He is misleading public by using the notion "synthetic life". However, during his conference he has also used the notion "synthetic chromosome" which is correct and that is exactly what he and his team has done. If you listen to his conference carefully, he is not telling any thing different than what I have written in my reply.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Of course God can certainly get it into one piece with perfection. But whether he did make it as one piece once again or left a visible mark should not be a matter of concern. Either ways i find his wisdom

you wre somehow unable to get the joke
so just simply turn the pages & read Sparkling's post about the pseudo scientific Islmaic Blogs

Who exactly is a Muslim here? The Mullah's of TTP imposing their decisions on womens? A bunch of free thinkers challenging the existance of God? or a guy sitting in Norway paying INTEREST (the most disliked thing in Islam), or the Mullah's in the streets of Pakistan calling each other infidels and shouting like donkeys (as Qur'an says keep thy voice low; surely the most repulsive of voices is the voice of the A S S) or those young generation of brain washed peoples holding banners of "beheading and killing" forgetting this religion teaches peace.
I find no practicing Muslims around

they are all part of the same religious identity, which you people proudly present as the cohesive force
now you are going to deny their assimilation in the very Islmic society because according to you they are not following the divine book, if there is no practicing Muslim around then why do we see such a response from the Muslims whose faith get disturbed & deluded by a few caricatures , if they have such a strong belief in God & Prophet & their goodness they must not be offended by what other or to be precise infidels says about them

The definition of Silly is those who ask too many Y's. 1-2, 10 or 100 Y's in one topic are ok but leaving a question mark on each and everything is nothing but stupid and dumb thinking and not Free thinking.

if you don't have an asnwer you can walk away

 

[qsaark]

Because human mind is capable of distinguishing between good and bad, "lie", "murder", "curruprion" etc. are percieved negatively universaly.

Because human mind is capable of distinguishing between good and bad, people came up with the idea of law, order and constitution.

So what that suggests? That there are humans and lots of human who would do whatever they like in the absence of law and order and they would do it not because they don't recognize good or bad, but because they do not value that recognition. Smoking is harmful to health, this is a common knowledge, yet many smoke, falsely believing that smoking wont hurt them. So the guidance is not always to guide one between good or bad, but to guide about the value of this recognition. The Prophets or saints or good people do not bring something new with them, they do not teach something not already known, they only reiterate the forgotten message. The heavenly books are not fundamentally different in their message, they were bestowed upon at different time periods, in times when the message of the earlier scriptures were ignored and forgotten.

 

[Hyde]

you wre somehow unable to get the joke
so just simply turn the pages & read Sparkling's post about the pseudo scientific Islmaic Blogs

Ok thanks, i will - and sorry i misunderstsood your last post

they are all part of the same religious identity, which you people proudly present as the cohesive force
now you are going to deny their assimilation in the very Islmic society because according to you they are not following the divine book, if there is no practicing Muslim around then why do we see such a response from the Muslims whose faith get disturbed & deluded by a few caricatures , if they have such a strong belief in God & Prophet & their goodness they must not be offended by what other or to be precise infidels says about them

Well thats because of high level of illeteracy in our country. Peoples are inclined towards Ullema and those Ullema themselves know nothing about Islam so they give verdicts based on their poor knowledge. Just pick any Pakistani for example take your own example, Have you ever read the translation of Holy Quran? i don't think so......... similar is the case for rest of the 95% - 99% Pakistanis

and same applies for other Muslim nations. We do not know anything about Islam and on top of that we have high illeteracy in our countries thanks to the poverty and lack of interest by the governments. Until this education problem is not resolved we cannot prosper neither can represent like an Ideal Muslim

At the moment we are lacking both worldy as well as religious education

if you don't have an asnwer you can walk away

Well there was no question uptil now for which i was lacking an answer. That would be another thing if i deliberately ignored it

 

[Durran3]

Please post those 'old Greek pages' or appropriate references that you claim to be included in Quran. I never knew that Muhammed (PBUH) committed this kind of plagiarism. My understanding is he (Muhammed) was not literate, and Macca was nothing like a city of Scholars. Where did Muhammed get his hands on the Greek material to include in Quran?

I am a career Scientist and have met dozens of prominent Biologists but never once I heard from them or read in the literature that Greeks had made these kind of strides and leaps in Anatomy.

It's called Google Mr. Qsaark something i am assuming your fairly qualified at. All you have to do is type in History of Human Anatomy.

Here is a well researched journal PDF Link for science buffs like you
http://www.scielo.cl/pdf/ijmorphol/v24n1/art18.pdf

Further Contradictions in the Quran

Which one would you choose Qsaark?

- Quran 22: 47 -A day in the sight of the Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.

- Quran-32:5: To Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be a thousands years of your rekoning

-Quran 70: 4 The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a day the measure whereof is Fifty thousands years.

So which one is it? One day equals to fifty thousand or one thousand?

Would a science buff like you agree that the sun sets on muddy waters?

Koran teaches us that the Sun sets in a muddy spring:

Quran 18: 86 Till, when he (the traveller Zul-qarnain(btw referring to Alexender the Great) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring…

Quran 18: 90 Till, when he reached the rising-place of the Sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter from it.

Muddy spring? seriously? i'd like to see how religious people twist and turn words to justify this statement to their liking. Anyone with a half a brain can see it's saying that the world is flat

-Quran 36: 38 And the sun runneth on unto a resting place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.

I dont recall the sun ever Moving in the first place? Its the earth that revolves around the sun and rotates on an axis. The sun doesn't NEED a Resting place its already stationary.

So Qsaark are stars created as missiles to shoot satan? The Absurdity just doesn't end.

- Quran 67: 5 And We have (from of old) adorned the lowest heaven (sky) with lamps, and We have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans…

- Quran 37: 6-8 We have indeed decorated the lower heaven (sky) with beauty (in) the stars, (for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious Satans. So they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side.

Here is one of the most erroneous claims

- Quran 2: 22: Who has made the earth your couch, And the heavens (Sky) your canopy

The sky as a canopy really? Last time i remembered the Sky is nothing but Space and space has no bounderies even billions of light years away.

Numerical contradictions

There are many numerical contradictions in the Quran. God cannot make an error in doing simple calculations.
How many days did it take to create Heavens and Earth?

- Your guardian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days [Quran 7:54]

- Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days [Quran 10:3]

- He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days [Quran 11:7]

-He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days [Quran 25:59]


The above verses clearly state that God (Allah) created the heaven and the Earth in 6 days. But the verses below stated:

- Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ? [Quran-41:9]

- He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS… [(Quran- 41:10]

- So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and… [Quran-41:12]

Now do the math: 2 (for earth) + 4 (for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days.

Pretty bad mathematics..

And We have set on earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with them. [Quran- 21:31]

And he has cast the earth firm mountains lest it shake with you… [Quran-16:15]

Obviously the person who wrote the Quran had not an ounce of knowledge on the geological reason on how Mountains are Created. Mountains are not there to prevent shaking as in Earthquakes. Infact its quiet the opposite. Collision of tectonic plates creates earthquakes which in return tends to create hills and mountains

There are tons and tons of contradictions that one only needs to find..

 

[qsaark]

So all that what you have posted above is the Greek literature and references quoted in Quran? I guess I did not ask you to present me with the list of contradictions in Quran (as per your limited knowledge of it in the total absence of the understanding of Arabic) but the plagiarized Greek medical knowledge given in Quran?

Please post those 'old Greek pages' or appropriate references that you claim to be included in Quran. I never knew that Muhammed (PBUH) committed this kind of plagiarism. My understanding is he (Muhammed) was not literate, and Macca was nothing like a city of Scholars. Where did Muhammed get his hands on the Greek material to include in Quran?

I am a career Scientist and have met dozens of prominent Biologists but never once I heard from them or read in the literature that Greeks had made these kind of strides and
leaps in Anatomy.

Where is your answer to all this? You seem to have some serious trouble understanding simple questions, and you are trying to find contradicions in Quran? That is pretty scary I must say.

 

[Hyde]

I answered this question back in 2005 when one of the idiot Athiest was arguing with me.

This is a height of stupidity now let me answer it one by one - basically the critic has just twisted the verses of the Holy Qur'an for his own purposes and picked verses out of context to suit his own needs. It is just like i say I DON'T LOVE YOU and you cut DON'T in between and show to others saying "I love you" instead.

and these critics were created by an anti-islam fanboy and no sane non-Muslim ever mentions these critics in his debates as he know he will be trapped badly. These questions has been answered millions of times before and i am just countering the easiest one that is coming in my mind for now - will reply to other questions later if you are still interested

Further Contradictions in the Quran

Which one would you choose Qsaark?

- Quran 22: 47 -A day in the sight of the Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.

- Quran-32:5: To Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be a thousands years of your rekoning

-Quran 70: 4 The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a day the measure whereof is Fifty thousands years.

So which one is it? One day equals to fifty thousand or one thousand?

If you read both chapters from where these verses have been quoted at one place the Holy Qur'an is talking about the day of Judgement that is equivalent to 50,000 Years and on another verse the Holy Quran is talking about the day in Paradise that is equivalent to 1000 years.

Understood Mr Dumb?

Koran teaches us that the Sun sets in a muddy spring:

Quran 18: 86 Till, when he (the traveller Zul-qarnain(btw referring to Alexender the Great) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring…

Quran 18: 90 Till, when he reached the rising-place of the Sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter from it.

Muddy spring? seriously? i'd like to see how religious people twist and turn words to justify this statement to their liking. Anyone with a half a brain can see it's saying that the world is flat

will counter this part later and there is no Alexandra - it is just used by the Scholar "Yousuf Ali" as he believed the qur'an talking about Alexandra. In Arabic there is no such thing.

So Qsaark are stars created as missiles to shoot satan? The Absurdity just doesn't end.

- Quran 67: 5 And We have (from of old) adorned the lowest heaven (sky) with lamps, and We have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans…

- Quran 37: 6-8 We have indeed decorated the lower heaven (sky) with beauty (in) the stars, (for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious Satans. So they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side.

I once answered this question in detail - will try to dig those threads once again - and there is a long story behind this. You don't know anything wha you are talking about so all i can say is "Ignorance is a bliss"

Here is one of the most erroneous claims

- Quran 2: 22: Who has made the earth your couch, And the heavens (Sky) your canopy

The sky as a canopy really? Last time i remembered the Sky is nothing but Space and space has no bounderies even billions of light years away.

Bad example, its 06:04AM when i wake up i will show you documentary accepting this as a miracle of the Quran.

Numerical contradictions

There are many numerical contradictions in the Quran. God cannot make an error in doing simple calculations.
How many days did it take to create Heavens and Earth?

- Your guardian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days [Quran 7:54]

- Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days [Quran 10:3]

- He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days [Quran 11:7]

-He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days [Quran 25:59]


The above verses clearly state that God (Allah) created the heaven and the Earth in 6 days. But the verses below stated:

Here God is talking about the Heavens and the Earth (together)

- Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ? [Quran-41:9]

Here talking about the Earth Only

- He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS… [(Quran- 41:10]

Here talking about the earth as well as Mountains and other nourishments

- So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and… [Quran-41:12]

Now do the math: 2 (for earth) + 4 (for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days.

Pretty bad mathematics..

Bad maths again - he is talking about different things - you are calculating it wrongly

I build a PC in 4 days, i build a laptop in 3 days and i designed a mobile phone in 2 day does not mean i worked for 9 days all-together. I build everything in 4 days as i was working on different things all together

And We have set on earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with them. [Quran- 21:31]

And he has cast the earth firm mountains lest it shake with you… [Quran-16:15]

Obviously the person who wrote the Quran had not an ounce of knowledge on the geological reason on how Mountains are Created. Mountains are not there to prevent shaking as in Earthquakes. Infact its quiet the opposite. Collision of tectonic plates creates earthquakes which in return tends to create hills and mountains

There are tons and tons of contradictions that one only needs to find..

Last time i read in my science class they said Mountains are to keep the balance of earth

These are just plain stupid fanboy crticis and even the Non-Muslim (mainly Christian scholars) does not use these critics in debates

Get back to topic now boy - this is nothing but a propaganda of a fanboy - no sane person takes these twisted verses as a matter of debate

 

[SekrutYakhni]

It's called Google Mr. Qsaark something i am assuming your fairly qualified at. All you have to do is type in History of Human Anatomy.

Here is a well researched journal PDF Link for science buffs like you
http://www.scielo.cl/pdf/ijmorphol/v24n1/art18.pdf

Further Contradictions in the Quran

Which one would you choose Qsaark?

- Quran 22: 47 -A day in the sight of the Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.

- Quran-32:5: To Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be a thousands years of your rekoning

-Quran 70: 4 The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a day the measure whereof is Fifty thousands years.

So which one is it? One day equals to fifty thousand or one thousand?

Would a science buff like you agree that the sun sets on muddy waters?

Koran teaches us that the Sun sets in a muddy spring:

Quran 18: 86 Till, when he (the traveller Zul-qarnain(btw referring to Alexender the Great) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring…

Quran 18: 90 Till, when he reached the rising-place of the Sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter from it.

Muddy spring? seriously? i'd like to see how religious people twist and turn words to justify this statement to their liking. Anyone with a half a brain can see it's saying that the world is flat

-Quran 36: 38 And the sun runneth on unto a resting place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.

I dont recall the sun ever Moving in the first place? Its the earth that revolves around the sun and rotates on an axis. The sun doesn't NEED a Resting place its already stationary.

So Qsaark are stars created as missiles to shoot satan? The Absurdity just doesn't end.

- Quran 67: 5 And We have (from of old) adorned the lowest heaven (sky) with lamps, and We have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans…

- Quran 37: 6-8 We have indeed decorated the lower heaven (sky) with beauty (in) the stars, (for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious Satans. So they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side.

Here is one of the most erroneous claims

- Quran 2: 22: Who has made the earth your couch, And the heavens (Sky) your canopy

The sky as a canopy really? Last time i remembered the Sky is nothing but Space and space has no bounderies even billions of light years away.

Numerical contradictions

There are many numerical contradictions in the Quran. God cannot make an error in doing simple calculations.
How many days did it take to create Heavens and Earth?

- Your guardian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days [Quran 7:54]

- Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days [Quran 10:3]

- He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days [Quran 11:7]

-He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days [Quran 25:59]


The above verses clearly state that God (Allah) created the heaven and the Earth in 6 days. But the verses below stated:

- Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ? [Quran-41:9]

- He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS… [(Quran- 41:10]

- So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and… [Quran-41:12]

Now do the math: 2 (for earth) + 4 (for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days.

Pretty bad mathematics..

And We have set on earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with them. [Quran- 21:31]

And he has cast the earth firm mountains lest it shake with you… [Quran-16:15]

Obviously the person who wrote the Quran had not an ounce of knowledge on the geological reason on how Mountains are Created. Mountains are not there to prevent shaking as in Earthquakes. Infact its quiet the opposite. Collision of tectonic plates creates earthquakes which in return tends to create hills and mountains

There are tons and tons of contradictions that one only needs to find..

I am a retired member of this forum. Anyways, you should talk about the things of which you are master of.

About Sunset

Heavens and the earth

 

[Hyde]

So all that what you have posted above is the Greek literature and references quoted in Quran? I guess I did not ask you to present me with the list of contradictions in Quran (as per your limited knowledge of it in the total absence of the understanding of Arabic) but the plagiarized Greek medical knowledge given in Quran?

Where is your answer to all this? You seem to have some serious trouble understanding simple questions, and you are trying to find contradicions in Quran? That is pretty scary I must say.

well said once again,

he is like "Claimed Afghanistan is part of Pakistan" and showing proof as "Mexico is part of America"

both wrong

running away from his own statement

btw EmO kitni khush hoti hai Anti-Islam posts pe chalo thori gossip mil jaati hai isi bahane

 

[qsaark]

well said once again,

he is like "Claimed Afghanistan is part of Pakistan" and showing proof as "Mexico is part of America"

both wrong

running away his own statement

If you ask me, there is nothing wrong to be an atheist. This is one's own choice and I for one have no interest in changing one's opinion. My problem starts when certain people try to justify their beliefs (or no beliefs) while declaring others lairs. I am not proselytizing, than leave me and my belief alone. Here are some 'Scholars' who are trying to prove that the God I believe in does not exist, that my Prophet was a plagiarizer, that the book I follow is full of wrongs that is why they are atheists. Whereas fact of the matter is, they are atheist because they do not want to follow rules and regulations. Why they do not declare the God of Moses and the God of Jesus non-existent? Why they do not condemn Moses and Jesus for plagiarizing? Why cant they find illogicals in Torah and Bible? This all suggests that they are not merely defending their non-belief, but they are selectively targeting and slinging mud on one religion, Islam.

It is so painful and regrettable that any thread that is started (lately so many are started) to target Islam is allowed to let go in the name of freedom of speech, and the threads that are started to highlight the teachings of Islam are closed down in the name of "proselytizing is not allowed on PDF". No, if it comes to that than as Allama Iqbal has said "Razm e Haq o Baatil tou Faulad Hai Momin".

 

[Hyde]

If you ask me, there is nothing wrong to be an atheist. This is one's own choice and I for one have no interest in changing one's opinion. My problem starts when certain people try to justify their beliefs (or no beliefs) while declaring others lairs. I am not proselytizing, than leave me and my belief alone. Here are some 'Scholars' who are trying to prove that the God I believe in does not exist, that my Prophet was a plagiarizer, that the book I follow is full of wrongs. No, if it comes to that than as Allama Iqbal has said "Razm e Haq o Baatil tou Faulad Hai Momin".

i second that,

i too have no problem if one is Athiest. It is entirely his/her own choice and if he is happy to choose this path who are we to stop them? Allah has given free will to everybody as per Muslims belief so it is entirely upto to them whatever they feel best for them.

Me too only have problems with them when they start criticizing my faith with almost 0 education. All they have done is visited some fanboy's website to find criticism about Islam and everybody start talking about same old questions again and again.

Be happy and let others live happily - thats all my ideology is

 

[SekrutYakhni]

i second that,

i too have no problem if one is Athiest. It is entirely his/her own choice and if he is happy to choose this path who are we to stop them? Allah has given free will to everybody as per Muslims belief so it is entirely upto to them whatever they feel best for them.

Me too only have problems with them when they start criticizing my faith with almost 0 education. All they have done is visited some fanboy's website to find criticism about Islam and everybody start talking about same old questions again and again.

Be happy and let others live happily - thats all my ideology is

There is no free will.

Bye