When Innovation, Too, Is Made in China

[ptldM3]

Look at your own list, the space fatalities, 2 from china, how many from Russia?

More skewed statistics, how many space flights has China conducted compared to Russia? Has Russia ever asked China to help them? No, can the same be said about China? No. Now add all of the things Russia has accomplished in space, this includes undertaking risky missions such as constructing and living in space stations, space walks, being the first in space and building cutting edge rockets that even NASA uses, rocket found on LOX-rich preburner technology.

Don't insult the Russian space agency by comparing it to China, China just recently put a human in space and is country that achieved less that 1% of what Russia has achieve in space exploration and probably flew 1% of the missions Russia has flown. By the way when was Russia's last space fatalities? 40 years ago! And lets go back, just one Chinese explosion from a rocket killed 100 people and destroyed a village! That is the worst space disaster ever, and this was just in 1996.

Again your argument backfired

Proton-Electrotex, I don't know, I've never heard of them and neither have the top 18 semiconductor companies in the world, but I've heard of TSMC, UMC, SMIC, Vanguard, Grace, He Jian, HHNEC, CR Micro. The sales of the smallest top 18 semiconductor company CR Micro is bigger than the rest of the world combined, what a joke to suggest that Russia is anywhere on the map in semiconductors.

If our semiconductors are so bad stop using Russian seekers in the SD-10 and god only know what other Chinese indigenous weapons have parts of Russian origin in them.

Also, the link was to show WORLD CLASS construction equipment that was actually chosen to complete a WORLD CLASS project. The Russia Tower, is it built with RUSSIAN equipment?

TVEKS controls over 57% of all excavator sales in Russia you would be naive to think that some of Russia's latest skyscrapers were not build using them.

Don't even start with health, Chinese have a 12% higher lifespan than Russians. There is a higher absolute value of Russians with AIDS than Chinese, a SHAME for a country with 1/10th the population.

I will start will health there has been a string of diseases that has originated from China such as SARS and what about all the tanted foods from China? It got so bad that it was banned in many places.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Jeez ptldM3, you are a true comeback kid, i thought you were offline.

 

[Brotherhood]

China wows world with engineering - People's Daily Online January 04, 2011

The country surprised the world with its engineering and technical feats in 2010, when it completed several monumental projects high in the sky, deep in the seas and in-between.

China last year completed 15 successful space launches, including that of its second lunar probe, Chang'e-2, which will determine a site for the country's first unmanned moon landing around 2013.

The Long March launch vehicles also sent five Beidou navigation satellites into orbit. The launches were part of the country's plan to have 12 Beidou navigation satellites form a network covering the Asia-Pacific region before 2012. The system will have 35 navigation satellites by 2020, when it will rival the United States' Global Positioning System.

On the ground, China became a strong player in the global high-speed railway industry in 2010 by innovating upon technologies previously imported from Germany, France and Japan.

The Ministry of Railways announced the nation's high-speed railway network last year reached 7,531 km, becoming longer than any other countries'.

The network's top service speed became the world's fastest at 380 kilometers an hour since the Shanghai-Hangzhou high-speed railway opened in October.

It set new operation speed records twice in 2010.

In September, a China-made fast train reached 416.6 km an hour on the Shanghai-Hangzhou high-speed railway. Two months later, a train on the 1,318-km-long Beijing-Shanghai high-speed railway beat that record by reaching 486.1 km an hour.

Sources with CSR Corp Ltd, a major domestic train manufacturer, said in December that an experimental train is being developed that would challenge the 574.8 km an hour speed traveled by a specially configured version of France's TGV in 2007.

The domestically developed submersible Jiaolong planted a Chinese flag on the bottom of the South China Sea during a 3,759-meter-deep dive in July.

The vessel, designed to reach a depth of 7,000 meters and operate in most of the planet's oceans, is considered the world's only manned submersible that can theoretically reach those depths. Japan's Shinkai 6500 can dive for 6,500 meters. The other three countries with deep-diving technology are the United States, France and Russia.

And 2010 was the year China overtook the United States in developing the fastest supercomputer.

The Tianhe-1A can perform 2,507 trillion calculations a second and is 29 million times faster than the earliest supercomputers.

In addition, the water level of the largest hydroelectric project, the Three Gorges Dam, had increased to 175 meters as of October 2010, enabling it to generate electricity at maximum capacity.

The slew of mega-projects were made possible by the country's mammoth spending on research and development.

According to the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), China's investment in innovation nearly doubled from 34 billion euros ($44.56 billion) in 2006 to 65.7 billion euros in 2009.

By Bao Daozu, China Daily

The country's spending on innovation is now growing at 25.5 percent a year, compared to a fall of 4 percent in the US in 2009. Growth in major European economies, such as Germany and France, has remained in the single figures.

Even greater sums have been poured into infrastructure development. An estimated 700 billion yuan ($105 billion) was the budget for high-speed railway construction in 2010, Ministry of Railways Chief Engineer He Huawu said.

But the breakthroughs are not merely the result of increased funding.

China has over the past few years transformed from a country that imported technologies to one that leads in innovation. It is now competing for overseas high-speed railway projects - even in the US, which leads the world in freight railway technology but has almost no high-speed rail expertise.

"That's a mark of how well and quickly the technology has been adopted by Chinese companies, who have traditionally only been able to compete on price in bidding for railway and other basic infrastructure projects in the developing world," the Associated Press reported.

The Ministry of Railways started out with the strategy of "innovating on the basis of imported technologies to form our own system", He, with the ministry, had said earlier.

The ministry had filed 947 patent applications in the country by March 2010 and had also started filing applications for intellectual property rights abroad.


Wang Mengshu, professor at the Research Center of Tunnel and Underground Engineering at Beijing Jiaotong University and a member of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, believed: "China has the most advanced high-speed railway technology."

The ministry's plans called for the country's railways to extend for more than 120,000 km by 2020. About 16,000 km will come from new high-speed rail construction.

China has launched three manned spaceships and two unmanned lunar orbiters in recent years. It aims to build a space station by 2020, and will launch two spacecraft - Tiangong-1 and Shenzhou VIII - in 2011 to test its docking technology.

Sun Jiadong, the Beidou program's chief designer, said in an earlier interview: "The rise of China as a big economy and the advancement of technology have laid the foundation for us to pursue progress in aerospace technology... It is important to find our own exploration path based on China's own situation."

Andrew Moody and Tan Zongyang contributed to this story.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Don't insult the Russian space agency by comparing it to China, China just recently put a human in space and is country that achieved less that 1% of what Russia has achieve in space exploration and probably flew 1% of the missions Russia has flown. By the way when was Russia's last space fatalities? 40 years ago! And lets go back, just one Chinese explosion from a rocket killed 100 people and destroyed a village! That is the worst space disaster ever, and this was just in 1996.

So according to your logic even US has lesser spaceflight tech compared to Russia because they have sent the man into the space after Russia did?

Hopefully this is a joke eh?

 

[HongWu]

It is understandable that they believe that they are still a Superpower. However, these days are not with USSR anymore. It is a tough pill to swallow when you have just destroyed your own "Great Wall".

Usually I cut the Russians some slack. Soviet Union had lots of great accomplishments and Russia has been riding on that for 20 years now. It's clear that while they are standing still the rest of the world has not.

They are just very touchy about being surpassed by China in any field. There's no reason to rub their faces in it though. That's just manners.

Truth is much of China's technology base originally came from Russia. USSR-era engineering is top-notch. Chinese engineers recognize this too.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Usually I cut the Russians some slack. Soviet Union had lots of great accomplishments and Russia has been riding on that for 20 years now. It's clear that while they are standing still the rest of the world has not.

They are just very touchy about being surpassed by China in any field. There's no reason to rub their faces in it though. That's just manners.

Truth is much of China's technology base originally came from Russia. USSR-era engineering is top-notch. Chinese engineers recognize this too.

Of course, China has borrowed some good tech of the Soviet era. However, we did not just stay there, we do innovate with our own tech as well.

 

[gambit]

Research on Electromagnetic Scattering Characteristics and Radar Cross Section Reduction of Canard--?Aeronautical Computing Technique?2010?03?

Yes...Here is what that source said about canard...

The calculation results show that canard deflection angle will increase head-on RCS of aircraft apparently and affect stealth performance.

And canard's RCS was calculated when it was coated with radar absorbing materials. The result shows that this will reduce head-on RCS of aircraft dramatically.

Canards DO increase frontal RCS.

And your claim that "F-22's engines are visible, and that is why the rear part of any aircraft poses the biggest problems in terms of IR and RCS". Are you implying that merely a "visible" engine causes RCS reflection? That's incorrect.

That is very correct. A jet engine's rotating blades will produce constant 'scintillating' effects that will increase rear aspect RCS greater than frontal RCS.

Because it is geometry that reflects waves back in more directions than a flat underside like F-22, F-35 and now J-20.

Somewhat true. However, the goal is not to redirect those reflections back to source direction. So even if %100 of the impinging signal is reflected, as long as the seeking radar sees nothing or little of those reflections we are fine.

You are correct, however, when you say that stealth involves dissipating creeping waves.

Surface waves dissipates no matter what. Creeping wave is an effect of the surface when the curvature is less than 10λ (lambda) and I gave a brief explanation of that figure here...

=> http://www.defence.pk/forums/1100176-post231.html <=

 

[ptldM3]

So according to your logic even US has lesser spaceflight tech compared to Russia because they have sent the man into the space after Russia did?

Hopefully this is a joke eh?

No according to my logic China has conducted less space missions period! Also the US and Soviet space race was always close but now they work together. China sending a man into space in 2003 is not close. You also fail to recognize that Russia had space stations decades ago, conducted space walks decades ago, sent probes to Mars decades ago and did many other thing that China has only recently done or never done. The point is your brother looked foolish pointing out Russia's few space disasters compared with China especially when one failed Chinese rocket killed 100 people and destroyed a village. In other words the more space flight the higher the chances of accidents. In any case it was 40 years ago since a cosmonaut died, and in that time very few accidents occurred.

HongWU

You misunderstood me and were wrong on a number of things, I will be busy for the next several day, so I don't know when I can answer your questions. However, Gambit's reply is adequate enough.

I do however, have time to point out those saw tooth like edges, look at the ridged shapes and sharp corners around and behind the wings as well as the rear boom:

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

No according to my logic China has conducted less space missions period! Also the US and Soviet space race was always close but now they work together. China sending a man into space in 2003 is not close. You also fail to recognize that Russia had space stations decades ago, conducted space walks decades ago, sent probes to Mars decades ago and did many other thing that China has only recently done or never done. The point is your brother looked foolish pointing out Russia's few space disasters compared with China especially when one failed Chinese rocket killed 100 people and destroyed a village. In other words the more space flight the higher the chances of accidents. In any case it was 40 years ago since a cosmonaut died, and in that time very few accidents occurred.

Yeah, you should realize this is not Cold War's space racing anymore. USSR is no more and Russia cannot maintain the glory of USSR.

Today's Russia is lagging decades behind USA in the space tech, it is not like USSR, which was on par with USA, anymore.

China is managing to catch up in 2000s in the manned mission, but you cannot compare China's 2000s spaceflight with 1960s of USSR. They were done by different era with different standard and measurement.

Even the WWII Imperial Japan has AC, yet today's PLAN has no AC, so this means PLAN is weaker than the Imperial Japanese Navy?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

And in the 1990s China did fail to launch rocket, but i don't think there is any incident of killing hundred villagers.

You know some vids on YouTube are not credible, they are exclusive anti-communist propagandas, nothing more.

And you should know this right?

Nedelin catastrophe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ptldM3]

Today's Russia is lagging decades behind USA in the space tech, it is not like USSR, which was on par with USA, anymore.

Before I go I will say this, stop this nonsense with vague language such as decades behind. Decades behind in what? If you knew anything you would know both agencies share technology and even NASA decided to purchase RD-180 engines for their Atlas programs, the Soyuz capsules are also highly regarded by NASA so much so that Astronauts regularly us them. Russia contributed largely to the international space station, like I mentioned earlier there are certain requirements that need to be met in order to be apart of the international space station, Russia has met those requirements, so when you say they are decades behind you are technically wrong because one the United States would not purchase outdated rocket engines and two the United States and all other countries would not except Russian technology into the international space station if it was so outdated, for fear of endangering crews.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Before i go i will say this, stop this nonsense with vague language such as decades behine. Decades behind in what? If you knew anything you would know both agancies share technology and even NASA decided to perchase RD-180 engines for their Atlas programs, the Soyuz capsuls are also highly regarded by NASA. Russia contributed largely to the international space station, like i mentioned earlier there are certain requirments that need to be met in order to be apart of the international space station, Russia has met those requirments, so when you say they are decades behind you are technically wrong because one the United States would not purchase outdated rocket engines and two the United States and all other countries would not except Russian technology into the international space station if it was so outdated.

This is because the concept of the space shuttle is an utter failure, it doesn't mean that US cannot build some mega sophiscated rocket.

They have the plan to build the Ares type rockets.

 

[ptldM3]

This is because the concept of the space shuttle is an utter failure, it doesn't mean that US cannot build some mega sophiscated rocket.

They have the plan to build the Ares type rockets.

Just because there has been several shuttle accidents doesn't mean it's a failure. Back to engines the US always had good engines, but the RD-180 was the pintacle of engines atleast when it was discovered, in any case the RD-180 is now getting old but the concept of an LOX-rich preburner is still somewhat of a revolution compared to previous methods. Also the US can build mega sophiscated rockets like the Ares but what's your point? NASA wants the Russian space angency to do well and Russia wants the same for NASA because they both benifit from each other. Both NASA and Russia can built much more advanced systems with cooperation, case in point neither side would want the other to fall behind and certainly this has been proven when NASA transfered technology to Russia and Russia did the same for NASA.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Just because there has been several shuttle accidents doesn't mean it's a failure. Back to engines the US always had good engines, but the RD-180 was the pintacle of engines atleast when it was discover, in any case the RD-180 is now getting old but the concept of an LOX-rich preburner is still somewhat of a revolution compared to previous methods. Also the US can build mega sophiscated rockets like the Ares but what's your point? NASA wants the Russian space angency to do well and Russia wants the same for NASA because they both benifit from each other. Both NASA and Russia can built much more advanced systems with cooperation, case in point neither side would want the other to fall behind and certainly this has been proven when NASA transfered technology to Russia and Russia did the same.

So do you mean that NASA needs Russia's help to re-activate their plan for switching back to traditional spacecraft?

 

[ptldM3]

So do you mean that NASA needs Russia's help to re-activate their plan for switching back to traditional spacecraft?

NASA can build everything it needs on its own but they may choose to use proven Russian technology instead of wasting money on trying to construct something new, either way its up to NASA they can build it alone or work with Russia, something that they have done in the past.