When did Pakistan government stop collecting taxes and started to decrease exports?

[Thevilone]

Every country has two types of Loans : Domestic and External. Domestic loans are the ones taken from own citizens, banks, companies. For eg. if I put money in a govt. controlled pension fund, it is a domestic loan for the govt. The money is given by ME to the GOVT. on loan, on promise of return with interest. Increase in domestic loans mean a govt. has a taxation issue. Pakistan does have this problem, both at federal and state level. It is not considered too severe as money is to be circulated within the same country.

Then there are the external loans. Pakistan had always been struggling financially, just like all south Asian nations. Things started turning bad on a fundamental economic level during Musharraf era, especially due to increasing population. Pakistan's population started reaching levels where imports of basic food items such as pulses, tea and feed to cattle/poultry started rising. This should have been the time to start drastic action.

In mid-2010s Pakistan failed to compete with countries like India and Bangladesh in export industries like textiles, power shortages being one of the reasons. This resulted in contracting exports in the face of increasing imports. This was the last time Pakistan could save itself without major damage, but it did not happen. in 2015 Pakistan started CPEC. Do not confuse CPC with BRi, both are very different. WHile, we can debate BRI some other time, CPEC included lot of power generation plants, powered by fossil fuels. These were made with Chinese loans with RoI decied by the Chinese, built by Chinese contractors with no external competition and price and quality of work to be decided by the Chinese for work to be carried out mostly by Chinese work-force and materials. A lot of the money was siphoned back by the Chinese companies and much of the rest was smuggled abroad (Papa Johns is just one of the many examples.)

 

[Thevilone]

Every country has two types of Loans : Domestic and External. Domestic loans are the ones taken from own citizens, banks, companies. For eg. if I put money in a govt. controlled pension fund, it is a domestic loan for the govt. The money is given by ME to the GOVT. on loan, on promise of return with interest. Increase in domestic loans mean a govt. has a taxation issue. Pakistan does have this problem, both at federal and state level. It is not considered too severe as money is to be circulated within the same country.

Then there are the external loans. Pakistan had always been struggling financially, just like all south Asian nations. Things started turning bad on a fundamental economic level during Musharraf era, especially due to increasing population. Pakistan's population started reaching levels where imports of basic food items such as pulses, tea and feed to cattle/poultry started rising. This should have been the time to start drastic action.

In mid-2010s Pakistan failed to compete with countries like India and Bangladesh in export industries like textiles, power shortages being one of the reasons. This resulted in contracting exports in the face of increasing imports. This was the last time Pakistan could save itself without major damage, but it did not happen. in 2015 Pakistan started CPEC. Do not confuse CPC with BRi, both are very different. WHile, we can debate BRI some other time, CPEC included lot of power generation plants, powered by fossil fuels. These were made with Chinese loans with RoI decied by the Chinese, built by Chinese contractors with no external competition and price and quality of work to be decided by the Chinese for work to be carried out mostly by Chinese work-force and materials. A lot of the money was siphoned back by the Chinese companies and much of the rest was smuggled abroad (Papa Johns is just one of the many examples.)

This has brought Pakistan in a very unique situation. Pakistan is paying high capacity charges for electricity it does not use.

Because lesser electricity is used due to higher prices, more capacity goes to waste, resulting in higher capacity charges, resulting in higher electricity prices resulting in lesser electricity being used due to higher prices. Pakistan has managed to break the basic Supply and Demand rule of economics. Here the prices are increasing because supple is contracting and supply is contracting because prices are increasing.


Pakistan is talking about default, not keeping in mind that the Chinese won't let it default so easily. WHile the western instituions may be ready to take a haircut, Chinese will take their pound of flesh.

China’s Debt Noose Could Strangle Pakistan

The nuclear-armed South Asian nation is close to default. Whether it’s saved will depend on how willing Beijing is to work with more traditional lenders.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Olympus81]

Short term - Get balance of payment and fiscal deficit in control.

Long term - Focus on Human development, streamline bureaucracy, political stability, privatization, rule of law.

Solution is there, but difficult to implement due to vested interests and mafia.

 

[Thevilone]

Short term - Get balance of payment and fiscal deficit in control.

Long term - Focus on Human development, streamline bureaucracy, political stability, privatization, rule of law.

Solution is there, but difficult to implement due to vested interests and mafia.

Short term - Get balance of payment and fiscal deficit in control. How do you think this can happen? Pakistan can't stop importing wheat or dal. The poor will riot. Stopping industrial imports is not a good idea as it'll push Pakistan back decades. Military imports can be reduced but can't be stopped in the middle of a TTP/TTA/BLA civil war.
Long term - Human development cannot happen when your population increases by 3%. No society in the world can provide quality education, physical and mental development and skill development when third of your population is below 14 years of age.


Solution : Population control. But this will be extremely unpopular. It can be done even in Islamic societies but Pakistan is different. Bangladesh did it, that's why they're much richer than Pakistanis today. Extremely well educated and I am sure will be a major regional power in decades to come. https://www.newsecuritybeat.org/2018/10/bangladesh-pakistan-demographic-twins-grow/

 

[AA_]

Somebody explain the matter in simple non-technical language to lay people.

I figure out that Pakistan's economic problems - forex reserves, balance of payments - whatever it's called - are because of non-collection of taxes and decrease of exports.

But when did it all (non-collection of taxes and decrease of exports) start?

Was it all (non-collection of taxes and decrease of exports) sudden or was it gradual?

Which government was responsible?

Phuck you Hindian! Smelly ugly Ganges sewer rat!

 

[Skimming]

Phuck you Hindian! Smelly ugly Ganges sewer rat!

Abusing me won't solve your problems.

 

[Thevilone]

Abusing me won't solve your problems.

Ignore him, he is beneath you.

 

[Olympus81]

Short term - Get balance of payment and fiscal deficit in control. How do you think this can happen? Pakistan can't stop importing wheat or dal. The poor will riot. Stopping industrial imports is not a good idea as it'll push Pakistan back decades. Military imports can be reduced but can't be stopped in the middle of a TTP/TTA/BLA civil war.
Long term - Human development cannot happen when your population increases by 3%. No society in the world can provide quality education, physical and mental development and skill development when third of your population is below 14 years of age.


Solution : Population control. But this will be extremely unpopular. It can be done even in Islamic societies but Pakistan is different. Bangladesh did it, that's why they're much richer than Pakistanis today. Extremely well educated and I am sure will be a major regional power in decades to come. https://www.newsecuritybeat.org/2018/10/bangladesh-pakistan-demographic-twins-grow/

You raise good points.

Population control is an absolute must. From net exporter of wheat Pakistan has become net importer. The population growth rate should come down to 0.5% from current 2-3%.

Balance of payment can be controlled by import substitution. Food items that are an absolute must need to be home grown, while taxes on non essential items need to be rationalized.

Fiscal deficit can be controlled by controlling losses of LSEs, IPPs, debt restructuring, restructuring pensions.

At the same time improving investment climate, human development which I have identified in long term strategy. This will improve exports and investment which will improve balance of payment.

Things are achievable, but as I said, too many vested interests.

 

[Skimming]

Ignore him, he is beneath you.

He's kidding. He's a false flagger.

 

[AA_]

Abusing me won't solve your problems.

Neither would yours and others like you coming here solely for the purpose of trolling Pakistanis, on a Pakistani defense forum.

Ignore him, he is beneath you.

right okay there Raj Koomar.

He's kidding. He's a false flagger.

Nope try again, I just really have pure hatred for you guys. It borders on irrationality.

 

[Thevilone]

You raise good points.

Population control is an absolute must. From net exporter of wheat Pakistan has become net importer. The population growth rate should come down to 0.5% from current 2-3%.

Balance of payment can be controlled by import substitution. Food items that are an absolute must need to be home grown, while taxes on non essential items need to be rationalized.

Fiscal deficit can be controlled by controlling losses of LSEs, IPPs, debt restructuring, restructuring pensions.

At the same time improving investment climate, human development which I have identified in long term strategy. This will improve exports and investment which will improve balance of payment.

Things are achievable, but as I said, too many vested interests.

India has strict land laws. Most Indian citizens cannot buy agricultural land, only a farmer can. This prevents moneybags from swooping in, buying all agricultural land and running the farming sector into the ground. Also, agricultural land cannot be converted to residential or commercial use; doing so is a complicated process and rarely gets approved. This means India's old farmlands survive while new barren land is being converted into farmland.
Pakistan ahs seen it's farms and mangroves being turned into plots and housing societies. The impact will be felt long term.

Nope try again, I just really have pure hatred for you guys. It borders on irrationality.

I believe you. You seem completely irrational. You must be around 10-12 years old I guess

 

[Olympus81]

LoL why are you replying me with what happens in India.

 

[Thevilone]

LoL why are you replying me with what happens in India.

This is for reference. This is how it's supposed to be. Pakistani agricultural land has been reducing constantly, while population increases. For a country with no major export industries, this is an alarming situation.

 

[Olympus81]

Last I checked Pakistan’s agriculture land area has been gradually increasing compared to 2010 with some years in between having hiccups.

Pakistan - Agricultural Land (% Of Land Area) - 2024 Data 2025 Forecast 1961-2021 Historical

Agricultural land (% of land area) in Pakistan was reported at 47.09 % in 2021, according to the World Bank collection of development indicators, compiled from officially recognized sources. Pakistan - Agricultural land (% of land area) - actual values, historical data, forecasts and projections...

tradingeconomics.com

 

[GumNaam]

Somebody explain the matter in simple non-technical language to lay people.

I figure out that Pakistan's economic problems - forex reserves, balance of payments - whatever it's called - are because of non-collection of taxes and decrease of exports.

But when did it all (non-collection of taxes and decrease of exports) start?

Was it all (non-collection of taxes and decrease of exports) sudden or was it gradual?

Which government was responsible?

it all started when property dealer bajwa took off his khaki pantaloons and ran across the prospering dining table of the Pakistani economy full of food and made big julaabs across the table while holding the cipher letter and crying "naai naai mujhay punish na kar na donald lu bhai may abhi Imran Khan ko hata ta hoon"...

'nuf said!