When Charlie Hebdo Denied Freedom of Expresion to its Cartoonist

[MarkusS]

Here comes the white supremacist.

It has nothing to do with race or supremacism. I´m catholic like most italians. The church is important for me. Many people make fun about jesus and the church itself. Does it anger me? Yes it does. But i learned to simply look away. Millions died in europe for freedom of speech and secularism. If you start to cater extremists where does this end? The muslim prophet means nothing for us. And he can and must be target for satricial comics like evrything else too. Learn to live with it because it will not change.

 

[Dubious]

Generally, your kind of oblique defense of this kind of atrocity is directed at the victims, not at the perpetrator(s). You do not have the courage to tell other peoples with different interpretations of 'freedom of speech' to be as understanding as you want us to be. You do not want to say to the Muslims: 'Please understand that these filthy infidels have not yet received Allah into their hearts. They are like immature children, so let us be the tolerant adults in this world.'

What I see is common...

First...There are the usual obligatory condemnations.

Then...Dragged in US involvement in the ME, support for the Joos, invasion of Iraq, etc.

Then...Historical wrongs of Christians such as the Inquisition.

Answer truthfully, were you in that war torn land and seen all those things HAPPENING TO YOUR FAMILY and offered a hand at revenge....would you take it?

If analyzing is wrong...Then how different are we from the brainwashed sheep who cant tell killing is wrong?

Then...Indirectly blaming the victims by saying they provoked the emotional response by <doing whatever>.

Only blame for cartoonists is their career...do tell me they didnt see it coming esp after the Dannish cartoons...I can say the Danes prob didnt see it coming coz that was the 1st time something like that happened...that too after a number of months of it being published (yup that is how much shit anyone gave those cartoons (the normal Muslims living in Europe saw it did nothing)...took a few months to get to the cave the extremists live)

 

[Serpentine]

It has nothing to do with race or supremacism. I´m catholic like most italians. The church is important for me. Many people make fun about jesus and the church itself. Does it anger me? Yes it does. But i learned to simply look away. Millions died in europe for freedom of speech and secularism. If you start to cater extremists where does this end? The muslim prophet means nothing for us. And he can and must be target for satricial comics like evrything else too. Learn to live with it because it will not change.

I don't care about that cartoon. I said that because your post sounded like a white supremacist. You are talking like it was an attack by whole Muslims against the 'innocent civilized Europe', that's the agenda of many anti-Muslim groups in Europe, especially the Nazi-inspired ones like Pegida. If all Muslims were terrorists, you wouldn't be alive here to write these words, perhaps killed by a suicide bomber in your doorstep. This Islamophobic insanity should stop.

 

[salarsikander]

It has nothing to do with race or supremacism. I´m catholic like most italians. The church is important for me. Many people make fun about jesus and the church itself. Does it anger me? Yes it does. But i learned to simply look away. Millions died in europe for freedom of speech and secularism. If you start to cater extremists where does this end? The muslim prophet means nothing for us. And he can and must be target for satricial comics like evrything else too. Learn to live with it because it will not change.

Then dont come crying when the whoop ur rear

 

[TurAr]

Learn the basics before jumping in...

As for judgement on Europe! Heck why should I use my country as a standard when Europe's dirty laundry are no longer a secret!

Hadn't you already 'answered' every sentence of that post of mine by multi quoting and saying things like "I don't care", "Like I give a fvck", etc...

The basics she says

Generally, your kind of oblique defense of this kind of atrocity is directed at the victims, not at the perpetrator(s). You do not have the courage to tell other peoples with different interpretations of 'freedom of speech' to be as understanding as you want us to be. You do not want to say to the Muslims: 'Please understand that these filthy infidels have not yet received Allah into their hearts. They are like immature children, so let us be the tolerant adults in this world.'

What I see is common...

First...There are the usual obligatory condemnations.

Then...Dragged in US involvement in the ME, support for the Joos, invasion of Iraq, etc.

Then...Historical wrongs of Christians such as the Inquisition.

Then...Indirectly blaming the victims by saying they provoked the emotional response by <doing whatever>.

You might want to read my posts again.

 

[MarkusS]

I don't care about that cartoon. I said that because your post sounded like a white supremacist. You are talking like it was an attack by whole Muslims against the 'innocent civilized Europe', that's the agenda of many anti-Muslim groups in Europe, especially the Nazi-inspired ones like Pegida. If all Muslims were terrorists, you wouldn't be alive here to write these words, perhaps killed by a suicide bomber in your doorstep. This Islamophobic insanity should stop.

Maybe islam should stop because as you claim...if all muslims would be terorrists...well then i assume they would be simply destroyed like any otehr danger for humanity. Islam has an internal problem. The inability for self criticism. And PEGIDA is not NAZI inspired. Infact PEGIA voices what 70% of germans believe. People see such crimes and tehy are worried.

 

[Dubious]

Yes, thats my idea... and the ideal of citizens living in democratic secular nations. If those islamists dont like them, they are free to leave to their backward dark age nations where there are religious courts and laws or the shithole called Islamic "state" itself !.
And if the resort to violence, they will be exterminated. Period.

I am not sure what they like or not...Let us not forget what happened in Paris was done by ex criminals....Ex criminals France is keeping in its borders....

And it does not matter for me if its in my country or somewhere else like France... I stand with anyone who beliefs in these ideals.

Good to know

And I believe you are right, there are not evil people (if you look at it 100% in an objective way, which is impossible).. Hitler did not believe that what he was doing was evil... yesterdays terrorists did not believe that what they did was evil... the monsters who killed little children in Pashawar did not believe that they were the evil ones... for them, those who see them as evil are the evil ones.

Did I say that? Please stop implying! It is disgusting!

We, who live in a modern nations with the ideals of democracy, freedom and secularism are united in our beliefs in these values.

Are you so? Most of Europe doesnt like France...I have only been there once so I asked around before going to Paris...and when I said most ...I mean I asked almost ALL my colleagues in the various stations I get put in...Heck I even asked some friends in America and Germany...all they can say about France is the Eiffel tower nothing more

And we dont give a sh*t if your 1400 years old text prohibit US from doing things we like to do which are ok according to our laws made by the people !!. One is free to do follow and practice any religion as long as one does not start requiring others to live by its laws.

This isnt even about practicing a religion

And if anyone starts doing so he/she will be facing the consequences. Freedom came at a cost... and will be defended with all means if necessary.

practice what you preach! Freedom always comes at a cost...

Hadn't you already 'answered' every sentence of that post of mine by multi quoting and saying things like "I don't care", "Like I give a fvck", etc...

The basics she says
.

No one becomes a doctor without knowing the difference between a nose and the buttocks! Basics wont kill you it sure will teach you use your brain more efficiently to analyze!

 

[salarsikander]

ask questions about islam but no insulting of islam

 

[TurAr]

No one becomes a doctor without knowing the difference between a nose and the buttocks! Basics wont kill you it sure will teach you use your brain more efficiently to analyze!

Don't get personal and stop being an apologist. Embrace the simple fact that people will continue to draw as they wish, even more so after such attacks.

 

[Dubious]

Don't get personal and stop being an apologist. Embrace the simple fact that people will continue to draw as they wish, even more so after such attacks.

Then such people should also embrace the fact that their govt did some boo boo and yes there is a high alert of killings going on!

I suggest you read the definition of getting personal and apologist! Just coz 1 -2 people called me that as that is all that has been circulating doesnt make me one!

Here is the definition of apologist: a person who offers an argument in defence of something controversial.

I have not defended what they did...By pointing out how it happened or why it is happening is not a defence!

 

[TurAr]

Here is the definition of apologist: a person who offers an argument in defence of something controversial.

That's the sad part, you couldn't offer any argument. A failed apologist it is.

 

[Dubious]

That's the sad part, you couldn't offer any argument. A failed apologist it is.

good to know!

I dont see any argument on your side except thee typical hypocrisy or we can also call it psychological projection here let me help you point it out:

Don't get personal

Answer me this:
Why should I apologize for what they did?

Did they ask me before they committed their crime?

Did they ask our permission before they yelled some Muslim slogan? Do we have copyrights for such slogans?

Did they check if Islam allowed it?

Answer to all is no! THEN WHY ON EARTH am I called an apologist? Why on earth should I not tell what is YOUR bloody mistakes which caused your own pain?


I am not saying it was right for them to be killed! But why should I apologize for what some moron did when I wasnt consulted before he made his move?

Why does Islam go to trial when Islam wasnt checked if it allowed killing blindly of unarmed people?

Why is there a call for hatred against Muslims?

When your brother steals are you dragged to jail?

If these are saviors of Islam well they havent made Muslims to be liked! So why the hell am I called an apologist when ALL I AM DOING IS WRITING DOWN HOW THEIR BLOODY MIND WORKS AND WHAT SCREWED IT!


Looks like no one can answer! HENCE, why you should keep it to yourself before blindly labeling and not using your brain and keeping it as a decoration piece!

 

[Serpentine]

Maybe islam should stop because as you claim...if all muslims would be terorrists...well then i assume they would be simply destroyed like any otehr danger for humanity. Islam has an internal problem. The inability for self criticism. And PEGIDA is not NAZI inspired. Infact PEGIA voices what 70% of germans believe. People see such crimes and tehy are worried.

Angela Merkel begs to differ. And if they are 70% of Germany, then Hitler should be proud indeed of his fellow people.

 

[Areesh]

I totally agree, you must never position yourself defensively in front of bigots and hypocrites. You should go on the offensive and expose what they are. Don't follow other people's agendas, create your own agenda (based on truth and justice).

Exactly...

 

[Developereo]

I notice some people have derailed the thread once again.

No one needs to apologize for the criminals, since no one is defending the murders.

The issue is the European hypocrisy on freedom of speech.

Every time someone posts off-topic crap, they are admitting that they can't address the issue of European hypocrisy.