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What's up with some Afghanis hate against Pakistan and ISI?

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Umm, you tell me one thing, who taught you history? It was not the rejection of the "supposed" Indian-ness that led to Pakistan coming into being in 1947, but the insecurity that led to a demand that there should be parity in electoral representation between Muslims and Hindus. There was not much left to be done after that demand was made. Jinnah's inspired and truly innovative idea of three homelands was at the end a veneer of civilisation over this atavistic and fearful reaction.

It is still the self-willed separation out of the north-western states, and nothing to do with Indian rejection of supposed Indian-ness.

There is nothing to say that the India of today will not take on new form in the years to come. There have been massive internal adjustments, some minor external ones, so, yes, the shape of India may change. Now, consider the fact that a strong and stable, economically growing and militarily powerful state abuts a weak and unstable, economically stagnating and militarily stressed state, which do you think will survive?

Many Pashtun reject being Pakistani, agreed , you people support that
Yet when there is "IN YOUR FACE" rejection of this "indianness" that you talk of in the form of countless Pakistanis telling you go F yourself, Sikhs wanting Khalistan , Kashmirs chanting "FREEDOM" , you deny it and and say no , its got nothing to do with "indian" "rejection of supposed Indian-ness"

Do you get the drift ? Does eating prasad make you a hypocrite ?
 
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The biggest fear of Punjabi dominated Pakistan is the emergence of Pashtun nationalism. If Afghanistan stabilizes, there is a good chance that Pashtuns on either side of Durrand line will focus their attention towards Pashtunistan and demand inclusion of Pashtun dominated areas of Pakistan into Afghanistan. So, its in the interests of Pakistan to keep Afghanistan weak and in perpetual instability.

Lol Man that's why Afghanistan should join us and liberate Pakistan from Punjabi domination.
 
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Many Pashtun reject being Pakistani, agreed , you people support that
Yet when there is "IN YOUR FACE" rejection of this "indianness" that you talk of in the form of countless Pakistanis telling you go F yourself, Sikhs wanting Khalistan , Kashmirs chanting "FREEDOM" , you deny it and and say no , its got nothing to do with "indian" "rejection of supposed Indian-ness"

Do you get the drift ? Does eating prasad make you a hypocrite ?

"You people support that"? What is that supposed to mean? We have a government, an elected one (an election is a process whereby people select their leader according to whoever gets the most support), a civilian one (a civilian government is one where the ministers are not kicked daily by people in uniform, and told what to do, or to say, by those people).

Where did you hear this "support" from the government of India? Did they come and whisper these great mysteries into your ear as you lay asleep?

As for eating prasad making me a hypocrite, it doesn't make me one, but it does earn you a negative rating for using religious insults. Enjoy.
 
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What a tangle.

Your eastern Iranian language dates from antiquity, but it was the language of a fugitive people, driven from disaster to disaster, until at last, a mongrelised collection of ethnicity occupied some parts of southern Afghanistan.

The Kushans were a central Asian tribe driven out by the Hiung Nu, who then occupied the Ferghana Valley. This drove out the previous occupants, the Sakas, or Scythians, who then descended on the cities of Bactria, centred around Balkh, which were Greek cities, peopled by the remnants of the Alexandrine invasion and the wars of the Diadochi. The Kushan language was an Indo-European language of the Centum division, not the Satam division.

The Scythians, whom you forgot to mention, or perhaps never knew about, first occupied Bactria, or Balkh, and then, in the second phase, decades later, when the Yueh-chi or Kushans attacked again, descended into Arachosia, some part of which was renamed Sakasthan after them; currently it is known as Seistan. They were tribesmen and nomads who spoke an east Iranian dialect. This is where the east Iranian dialect connection began and ended, for the time being.

They, and allied tribes known as the Pahlavas, ruled southern Afghanistan for a brief period, until the Kushan Empire overwhelmed all local resistance.

The Huns, so-called, were not Attila's Huns, but a completely different tribe known as the Ephthalites, probably of mixed ethnicity, including Scythian and Iranian, and attacked and over-ran parts of the Kushan Empire, including their holdings in Afghanistan. It is thought that they were a mixture of Sogdian (one of the Saka provinces under the Achaemenids) with two or three or more other tribes, including proto-Turkish tribes. Turk + Saka, more or less.
  1. Persians, under the Achaemenid Empire;
  2. Greeks and Macedonians, under the Alexandrine Empire;
  3. Greeks under the Diadochi, in this case, under Seleukos Nikator;
  4. Greeks from the cities of the north;
  5. Scythians, or Saka, later the Saka-Pahlava from Ferghana, later Balkh, later Seistan;
  6. Kushan from Takla Makan, then Ferghana, then the whole of north-west India and Afghanistan;
  7. Ephthalites;
These were the peoples and kingdoms and empires who conquered Afghanistan and ruled without local resistance, none at all, during the period 580 BC to 552 AD. The Ephthalites gave their name, in altered form, to the Abdali, so now you know when you can start bragging: after 552 AD, before that, you were cannon fodder, in a manner of speaking, since one never knows, you may start arguing that there was no cannon then.

You mentioned Ghurids, and Ghaznavids, and Lodhis, Khiljis, Tughlaqs and Mughals. Probably in an attempt to capture the flavour of the successive dynasties that ruled Afghanistan, and then moved into north India at the turn of the millennium. Ghurids and Ghaznavids were dynasties, not people; Khiljis were hybrids with a lot of Turkic blood, and so were Tughlaqs. Lodhis were Pushto, the Mughals were Persianised Turks, who called themselves Mongol to gain the prestige of the Mongols by association; this was a conceit begun by Timur.

What of them? What was common to them, or what was their common link to you? Since you disclaim the brotherhood of Islam. That was the only link, and hardly a link, considering the constant warfare between each and every faction.



They were greater warriors and adventurers than anybody else, so that line of yours sounds singularly unconvincing.



Very true.

Still not certain either way.

We must take refuge in some certainties, therefore. These are easy to pick out. These are all of them concerning Pakistan, not one concerning India. All concern the sub-national feelings of Pakistan.

Good luck with your efforts.

Bhainson ke saamne been Sir Bhainson ke saamne been. You are way above all this. Don't waste your time.
 
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The Taliban and Pashtun Nationalism
Pakistan is looking more dangerous and precarious by the week. The only Muslim country in the world with an arsenal of nuclear weapons is now threatened by a ferocious and rapidly expanding Taliban insurgency. The most retrograde Islamist army on earth has conquered territory just a few hours’ drive from the capital. Though this discouraging outcome wasn’t inevitable, it was at least likely. As Robert Kaplan pointed out in an insightful essay in the current issue of Foreign Policy magazine, “the Taliban constitute merely the latest incarnation of Pashtun nationalism.” And ethnic Pashtuns live on both sides of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. “Indeed,” Kaplan adds, “much of the fighting in Afghanistan today occurs in Pashtunistan: southern and eastern Afghanistan and the tribal areas of Pakistan.”
Pakistan_ethnic_1973.jpg

Take a look at two maps. The first shows the geographic breakdown of Pakistan’s patchwork of ethnicities. You’ll notice that ethnic Pashtuns live in the notoriously backward and violent northwestern frontier provinces. Their region extends deep into Afghanistan and covers the southeastern part of that country. These two regions – which are actually a single region with a somewhat arbitrary national border between them – are where most Taliban activity has been concentrated since the United States destroyed their regime in Afghanistan. A second map shows the breakdown of areas in Pakistan currently under Taliban control. You’ll see, when you compare the maps carefully, that almost all areas that are either Taliban-controlled or Taliban-influenced, are Pashtun.
NWFP24APR09.jpg

The Taliban are more than an expression of Pashtun nationalism, of course. They represent a reactionary movement that idealizes the simplicity and extreme conservatism of 7th century Islam. By burnishing this ideology, the Taliban is able, absurdly, to attract support beyond its Pashtun base.

The ethnic component, though, is a formidable one. It all but guaranteed a certain degree of success by the Taliban in all of “Pashtunistan,” in Pakistan as well as in Afghanistan. Yet all the while, the ethnic map imposes constraints, if not limits, on how far the Taliban can expand.

They were able to seize power in most of Afghanistan before 2001, although the “Northern Alliance” — made up primarily of ethnic Tajiks – managed to hold out until Americans arrived and smashed the regime in Kabul. Since then, the Taliban have had a harder time operating outside “Pashtunistan.” “The north of Afghanistan,” Kaplan writes, “beyond the Hindu Kush, has seen less fighting and is in the midst of reconstruction and the forging of closer links to the former Soviet republics in Central Asia, inhabited by the same ethnic groups that populate northern Afghanistan.”
 
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The Taliban and Pashtun Nationalism
Pakistan is looking more dangerous and precarious by the week. The only Muslim country in the world with an arsenal of nuclear weapons is now threatened by a ferocious and rapidly expanding Taliban insurgency. The most retrograde Islamist army on earth has conquered territory just a few hours’ drive from the capital. Though this discouraging outcome wasn’t inevitable, it was at least likely. As Robert Kaplan pointed out in an insightful essay in the current issue of Foreign Policy magazine, “the Taliban constitute merely the latest incarnation of Pashtun nationalism.” And ethnic Pashtuns live on both sides of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. “Indeed,” Kaplan adds, “much of the fighting in Afghanistan today occurs in Pashtunistan: southern and eastern Afghanistan and the tribal areas of Pakistan.”
Pakistan_ethnic_1973.jpg

Take a look at two maps. The first shows the geographic breakdown of Pakistan’s patchwork of ethnicities. You’ll notice that ethnic Pashtuns live in the notoriously backward and violent northwestern frontier provinces. Their region extends deep into Afghanistan and covers the southeastern part of that country. These two regions – which are actually a single region with a somewhat arbitrary national border between them – are where most Taliban activity has been concentrated since the United States destroyed their regime in Afghanistan. A second map shows the breakdown of areas in Pakistan currently under Taliban control. You’ll see, when you compare the maps carefully, that almost all areas that are either Taliban-controlled or Taliban-influenced, are Pashtun.
NWFP24APR09.jpg

The Taliban are more than an expression of Pashtun nationalism, of course. They represent a reactionary movement that idealizes the simplicity and extreme conservatism of 7th century Islam. By burnishing this ideology, the Taliban is able, absurdly, to attract support beyond its Pashtun base.

The ethnic component, though, is a formidable one. It all but guaranteed a certain degree of success by the Taliban in all of “Pashtunistan,” in Pakistan as well as in Afghanistan. Yet all the while, the ethnic map imposes constraints, if not limits, on how far the Taliban can expand.

They were able to seize power in most of Afghanistan before 2001, although the “Northern Alliance” — made up primarily of ethnic Tajiks – managed to hold out until Americans arrived and smashed the regime in Kabul. Since then, the Taliban have had a harder time operating outside “Pashtunistan.” “The north of Afghanistan,” Kaplan writes, “beyond the Hindu Kush, has seen less fighting and is in the midst of reconstruction and the forging of closer links to the former Soviet republics in Central Asia, inhabited by the same ethnic groups that populate northern Afghanistan.”

Sir don't worry even if tomorrow only Punjab remain Pakistan, we Punjabis alone are more then enough to give good danda to Bharotis ugly a**.
 
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Sir don't worry even if tomorrow only Punjab remain Pakistan, we Punjabis alone are more then enough to give good danda to Bharotis ugly a**.

May I request you most humbly to start your danda-bazi with your counterpart Punjabis? Those Ranjit Singh types who ruled the Punjab? That would give those of us who are so inclined and who possess a lungi to emigrate to Bangladesh. The border guards will be so shocked that they will not be able to stop us in time.
 
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May I request you most humbly to start your danda-bazi with your counterpart Punjabis? Those Ranjit Singh types who ruled the Punjab? That would give those of us who are so inclined and who possess a lungi to emigrate to Bangladesh. The border guards will be so shocked that they will not be able to stop us in time.

Sir danda is for every Bharoti, lungi walas or not. But we will make special arrangment for Bengali intellectuals, sir you will be spared.
 
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Pakistan Afghanistan Afghanistan Pakistan. Same people. So why all the hate?
 
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