What's the evidence?

[Captain03]

no evidence only accusations thats the indian policy lol

 

[roadrunner]

Come on, there must be some evidence, surely. Where's Vinod and daredevil? What were the results of the truth serum?

 

[daredevil]

or what we beleve isi not your RAW lol.your media make them superman in pakistan.

Yes, yes you should believe your ISI, they are your first line of defence.

 

[daredevil]

Come on, there must be some evidence, surely. Where's Vinod and daredevil? What were the results of the truth serum?

Looks like you are itching for some teasing session. Truth serum hasn't yet administered yet, will keep you updated.

 

[roadrunner]

Looks like you are itching for some teasing session. Truth serum hasn't yet administered yet, will keep you updated.

lol, alright, i await the conclusive results

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Looks like you are itching for some teasing session. Truth serum hasn't yet administered yet, will keep you updated.

Any chance that RAW can sell me some truth serum? I think my neighbour's dog has been shi**ing all over my property, a blatant cross border raid I may add. He categorically denies it, but every time I see that dog of his he has a smirk on his face.

 

[daredevil]

Any chance that RAW can sell me some truth serum? I think my neighbour's dog has been shi**ing all over my property, a blatant cross border raid I may add. He categorically denies it, but every time I see that dog of his he has a smirk on his face.

For you to drink?. No, I wouldn't recommend, otherwise you will start doing what that dog was doing, all over the place.

 

[haviZsultan]

Any chance that RAW can sell me some truth serum? I think my neighbour's dog has been shi**ing all over my property, a blatant cross border raid I may add. He categorically denies it, but every time I see that dog of his he has a smirk on his face.

Now that u mentioned it I've been faced with a similar situation and I may need the serum for our neighbors as well. They seem to get into our house and come inside when i go to do my laundry and break a few things and go away. Now thats obviously a cheap covert act of sabotage if u ask me and they clearly learnt it f4m sum higher figures round here... When I ask them they just shake their heads... uhun... like this:

I think i need the serum f4 em to speak the truth...

 

[haviZsultan]

What is the evidence India has so far of a Pakistani link to Mumbai?

Testimony of "Ajmal Qasab" - I'll discount that

Satellite phone calls - How strong is this link? Could it have been planted? Or was there constant communication?

If you ask me all the evidence clearly points to BJP and radical hindu groupings.

What a brilliant article here:

Karkare investigations into army-terrorist nexus caused Mumbai carnage

Islamabad- Saffron terrorist groups belonging to Sangh Parivar were behind the recent Mumbai Carnage and several suicidal attacks and assassinations in Pakistan and India reveal the latest findings of Daily Mail. According to these findings Indian terrorist setup Atma Ghataki Pathak (Hindu Suicide Squad), established by General ® Premnath Hoon founder of Shiv Sena’s Military Wing and his disciple Colonel ® Jayant Chitale, was responsible for planning and execution of this operation. AGP because of its close linkages with the Indian military has succeeded in forming an unholy nexus between the serving Indian military personnel and the Hindu extremist-terrorist groups. Lt Col Shrikant Purohit, alias 'Mithun Chakraborty' who was arrested in connection with the Malegaon blast and 2007 Samjhauta Express blaze ( killing 69 Pakistani passengers returning from India) was also working for General ® Hoon and Colonel ® Chitale’s Atma Ghataki Pathak (AGP). AGP was also responsible for Godhra train fire leading to Gujarat carnage against Muslims in 2002 and attack on Akshardham temple in Gujarat also in 2002. Colonel ® Jayant Chitale and his associate Sanjeev Atre, were arrested in November 2002 for running a suicide training camp on the outskirts of Mumbai and but were later released at the intervention of RAW. It is no coincidence that Col ® Chitale is now the next door neighbour of Col Purohit, the main accused in Samjhauta Express blaze and Malegaon blasts.
The Daily Mail investigations indicate multiple objectives of the recent Mumbai carnage. Firstly, it aimed at eliminating Hemant Karkare who had uncovered AGP’s invovement in the serial bomb blasts in Thane, Vashi and Panvel and the 29 September 2008 blast in Malegaon and Sumjhauta Express inferno in 2007. In Malegaon incident three bombs had exploded in Gujarat and Maharashtra of India, killing eight people and injuring 80 (two bombs were detonated in Malegaon, Maharashtra, killing seven). Karkare had earlier in his carrer also worked for RAW, the India's external intelligence agency and remained on an undercover diplomatic assignment in the Indian Embassy in Austria for seven years.Being thus aware of this unholy nexus, Karakare was able to nab some of its key culprits including Lt Col Shrikant Purohit. Secondly the Mumbai bloodbath was aimed at diverting the attention of the media and international community from the home spun Indian terrorist networks that were causing grave doubts on Indian claims of being a victim of foregn sponsored terrorism.
Daily Mail’s investigations into the encounter leading to the cold blooded assasination of Karakare and his team investgating the terrorism perpetrated by Indian home grown terrorists reveals that the terrorist were staking out for Karkare and that Karkare also had revealed threats to his life to his wife, because of which, she refused to accept compensation from Indian government. According to Constable Arun Jadhav, who was with the officers Hemant Karkare, Vijay Salaskar and Ashok Kamte when they were assasinated, the three officers and four constables had received information that their collegue Sadanand Dutt had been injured in the gunfire at the Cama and Albless Hospital for women and children. They took a Toyota Qualis which was being driven by Salaskar while Kamte was in the passenger seat, Karkare in the second row, and the four Constables, including Jadhav, were in the back row of seating. According to Jadhav, five minutes later two terrorists stepped out from behind a tree and opened fire with automatic rifles. The six policemen, other than Jadhav, were all killed quickly in the gunfire. The two terrorists approached the vehicle, dumped the bodies of the three officers on the road and, leaving the constables for dead. They proceeded to Metro Junction where they aimed three bursts of automatic fire at police and journalist vehicles drawn up at that location, then drove off towards the government offices (Vidhan Bhawan) in South Mumbai. Here again they fired several times. While attempting to leave the area, one of the tires of the vehicle burst, so the terrorists departed to obtain another vehicle. At this point, Jadhav emerged from the heap of dead bodies of his collegue constables and was able to contact headquarters.
Findings of Daily Mail on the background of these saffron terror networks further reveal that Shiv Sena’s Bal Thakeray publicly pronounced in the past to setup Hindu suicide squads to target Muslims in India and Pakistan which, was actually an admittance of a longstanding policy of Saffron terrorist groups in India. The terrorist activities and training needs of these groups are closely coordinated by the Indian intelligence agencies particularly RAW, which often relies on Saffron volunteers of these groups to carry out missions with high risk of life.
There is a long-standing internal feud amongst Hindutva groups vying for ascendancy with each other. Although Bal Thackeray is probably the most popular icon with cultist following amongst the Hindu fanatics yet at times he has shown signs of frustration that this popularity has not translated in electoral successes outside his home state of Maharashtra. Much to Thackeray’s annoyance when it comes to votes, BJP through a broader and more organized supporting network of RSS, VHP and Bajrang Dal managed to steel electoral success at the cost of Sena. Although his Shiv Sena (Hindu God Shiv’s Army) was in coalition with BJP in the Union Government and in the state of Maharashtra, Thakeray was not happy with the portfolios allotted to his party.
Thakeray who has always maintained big political ambitions now wants to assume the image of militant Hindutva’s sole champion in a bid to woo many elements in the ranks and file RSS, VHP and Bajrang Dal that are disillusioned with the BJP. These disgruntled elements regard top leadership of BJP, all of whom incidentally are concurrent members of RSS and VHP, to be “soft paddling” on converting India into a Hindu Rashstra (Hindu State) denouncing secular character of its constitution. A former Minister belonging to Shiv Sena in Indian Cabinet reflected these sentiments in 2003 stating that “everyone living in India must either be a Hindu or subservient to Hindus”. Nonetheless, the core supporters of militant Hindutva feel that time is ripe to make this declaration and the doctrine of Hindu Rashstra to become a state policy by formally ending the secular constitutional status of India. Sensing the infuriation of these elements Thackeray finally let the cat out the bag in a further recruitment drive of Hindu fanatics to his camp by giving an open call for Hindu suicide squads.
Daily Mail findings further reveal that concept of suicide squads was introduced in South Asia for the first time by the Indian intelligence agency RAW when it trained the Tamil separatists groups of Sri Lanka such as the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Elam (LTTE) to start militant secessionist movement based on terrorism in the Sri Lanka’s Jaffna peninsula. Daily Mail has learned that two names that surfaced in press in November 2002, in connection with Hindu Atma Ghataki Pathak (Hindu Suicide Squad), General ® Premnath Hoon former Chief of Western Command and who after retirement became Chief of Shiv Sena’s Military Wing and Colonel ® Jayant Chitale, had served on deputation with RAW imparting training on the Sri Lankan Tamil militants. Col ® Jayant Chitale also headed the Army Services Selection Board Centre in Pune for several years, where he was able to select Hindutva militant sympathizers for regular commission in the army. Col ® Chitale kept a contact with these recruits who through normal and sponsored progression in their careers went on to assume many responsible and important posts in the Indian army.
Daily Mail finding further disclose that Justice (Retd.) Jain, commissioned to investigate and report on the murder of late Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi’s assassination by an LTTE suicide killer, documented the existence of ‘militant’ training camps for LTTE and other Sri Lankan Tamil secessionist groups through out India, under the aegis of RAW and other Indian intelligence and security agencies. Former Indian Prime Minister V.P. Singh disclosed during his in camera hearing before the Jain Commission on 5th November 1996 that the first batch of training of Sri Lankan Tamil militants was done by India in 1983 under the orders of then Prime Minister (Late) Mrs. Indira Gandhi. The camp was located at Chakrata, Tamil Nadu. Singh, however, declined to disclose exact location citing national security reasons. According to him all militants were also provided with weapons and monetary backup to carryout activities inside of Sri Lanka. He further disclosed that ironically late Rajiv Gandhi also encouraged and supported training of LTTE and other Tamil militant groups.
Former Indian Foreign Secretary Salman Haider also provided a very incisive insight to the Commission in his affidavit number 343/96-JCI. Haider who was liaising between the LTTE terrorist maestro leader Prabharkaran and Indian intelligence agencies at one time disclosed that “in the beginning Mrs. Indira Gandhi entrusted full responsibility of providing military training to Sri Lankan Tamil militants to RAW”. Prabharkaran was however, not pleased with the share of spoils that local RAW operatives were giving to LTTE in comparison with its rival militant terrorist groups TELO, EROS, EPRLF, and TEA. He thus asked for Haider’s intervention, upon which the former arranged a meeting of Prabharkran with the officials of Indian Intelligence Bureau (IIB). Thus training of LTTE was shifted to IIB from RAW. This created an inter intelligence agency rivalry and according to Haider, RAW was behind attacks by Tamil Elam Liberation Organization (TELO) and Elam Peoples Revolutionary Liberation Front (EPRLF) on LTTE.
Former Advisor (to Mrs. Gandhi) K. Mohandas in his affidavit number 64/92-JCI disclosed to the Jain Commission that different intelligence agencies and Prime Minister’s advisors were vying with each other to provide training and facilitating the Lankan Tamil militants due to big money involved. Military training was provided by central agencies in Union government controlled camps in the states of Tamil Nadu, Karnatka, Uttar Pardesh, Kerala, New Delhi and elsewhere. According to Mohandas militants were trained, armed and launched into Sri Lanka to carry out subversion and attacks. Perhaps his most shocking revelation was that the LTTE and other militant groups were also provided training in the Indian Military Academy Dehra Dun, which incidentally is the basic military training institution for officers of Indian army.
In the meanwhile RAW started a parallel terrorist training programme targeted against Pakistan. It encouraged fanatic Hindu groups such as Shiv Sena, RSS, Bajrang Dal, Durga Vahini, Saffron Tigers, Soldiers of Hindutva, Hindu Jagran Munch and others to maintain their own trained militant squads. These militants are trained in rioting and indiscriminate killing of minority communities in mob attacks, particularly Muslims and Christians, where simple small arms such as machetes, trishols, and staffs prove lethal owing to the sheer numbers of attackers and the impunity with which they operate owing to state backing. Diehard volunteers are picked for elite squad from these disciples who are then trained for more sophisticated targeted assassinations and terrorist acts. These RAW trained terrorist groups have carried out several attacks inside Pakistan, which have also been reported by international media and think-tanks such as Federation of American Scientists (FAS).
According to Daily Mail’s findings the fanaticism of these Hindu suicide squads took a spine shuddering concept of ‘target reverse’ suicide attacks in early 2000s as witnessed in the reverse suicidal attacks against Hindu temples and government installations to blame Pakistan and Muslims. The attacks on Indian parliament in 2001, Godhra train fire in Gujarat and attack on Akshardham temple in Gujarat.
It may be recalled that the official findings of Forensic Science Laboratory of Ahmedabad, revealed that the fire in the Sabarmati Express at Godhra, in 2002 which became Casus belli for Muslim mayhem in Gujrat, was set from within the train compartment all filled with Hindu passengers and not from any outside pouring of gasoline by Muslim vendors on the train station, as alleged by Hindu fanatics. According to, Forensic Science Laboratory’s Assistant Director M J Dahiya about 60 litres of highly inflammable material inside the train, probably petrol, was responsible for the fire in the S-6 coach of Sabarmati Express. Giving evidence before the Justice G T Nanavati and Justice Shah Commission of Inquiry, Dahiya had ruled out the possibility of the coach catching fire from outside as that would have left its effect on the outside of the coach. Besides, the quantity of fuel required to set it on fire could not have been poured from outside. He said that a large number or quantity of burning objects or liquids could not have been thrown inside and neither would burning rags alone result in such a big fire that burnt the entire coach in just 40 minutes. It is pertinent that all the passengers inside the compartment comprised Hindu Kersevaks, as it was a train especially reserved for them and the group members knew each other. There was no chance for an outsider to get in to set fire as he or she would have immediately spotted. Thus it was a clear act of a Hindu suicide volunteer carrying large quality of inflammable liquid, who self immolated to create raison d’ etre for carrying out Gujarat carnage.
In light of these facts that speak loudly, the analysts believe that Mumbai carnage is another act of India’s home spun and nurtured saffron terrorists with the main objective of eliminating Mumbai anti-terrorist squad Chief Hemant Karkare and his colleagues to sabotage the on going investigations into the unholy nexus between Indian military and terrorist networks with gratuitous benefit of maligning Pakistan.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Abnormal death of Karkare (shot in the back) within the first few minutes of this tragedy points a finger at deeper involvement than just a few retards who came on fishing boats to wage war on Mumbai.

 

[Flintlock]

Abnormal death of Karkare (shot in the back) within the first few minutes of this tragedy points a finger at deeper involvement than just a few retards who came on fishing boats to wage war on Mumbai.

Wonder where you got that - from what I saw he was shot in the chest through a defective bulltproof vest.

Maybe the bureaucrats who supply bulletproof vests deliberately provided a defective batch

Gosh, there's no end to what you can dream up, given the inclination and the time.

 

[daredevil]

What is the evidence India has so far of a Pakistani link to Mumbai?

Here you go, something for you to chew on.

Revealed: home of Mumbai's gunman in Pakistan village (UK Guardian)


Since the terrorist attacks in Mumbai 10 days ago, speculation has been rife about the birthplace of the lone surviving gunman, Ajmal Amir Kasab. India and Pakistan have clashed over reports that he came from the Punjab. Saeed Shah, after spending days travelling throughout the region, tracked down the killer's home - and his grandfather - and found conclusive proof of his identity

* Saeed Shah
* The Observer, Sunday December 7 2008

--------------------------------------------------------------

The little house was certainly that of a poor family, with a courtyard to one side and a small cart propped up in one corner. The old man and middle-aged woman who answered the door were not the owners. No, they insisted, the owners were away.

'They've gone to a wedding,' said the old man, identifying himself as Sultan. He was, he said, Amir's father-in-law. So, that would make him Ajmal's grandfather? At last, it seemed, this was the right place.

It had taken days to get to Faridkot, a small, dirt-poor village in Pakistan's Punjab province. More than a week after the arrest of the only Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorist taken alive during the terror strike on Mumbai, so little was still known about him. His name, for instance. Was he Mohammed Amin Kasab, Azam Amir Kasav? Or was he Mohammed Ajmal Amir? The name Kasai in fact means he would hail from a butcher community - that would be his caste. But it was recorded as Kasav, then later Kasab. The discrepancies reportedly stemmed from the fact that the Mumbai police officers who first questioned him were Marathi speakers and unable to communicate with the south Punjab resident in anything other than Hindi patois.

And where exactly was he from? Faridkot is what he told his interrogators, but this is a common village name. There were four candidates in the Punjab region.

Days of trying to establish which was the right one had led to a Faridkot near the Indian border, outside a town called Depalpur. The nearest city was Okara. It seemed to fit. And it was at this Faridkot that Ajmal's father was believed to live.

Initially villagers were unhelpful. No, said those approached, there was no one known here of that name. Even shown a photograph of Ajmal taken during the Mumbai siege, all swore they did not recognise him. The mayor was clear. 'There is a man who came to see me called Amir Kasab, who was worried,' said Ghulam Mustafa Wattoo. 'He told me that the Ajmal on the news was not his boy. That boy's gone away to work. There's no extremist network here.'

Was this another dead end?

As the villagers were questioned, the confusions appeared to multiply. Finally the name Mohammed Ajmal Amir, son of Mohammed Amir Iman, who ran a food stall, emerged.

At other Faridkots, including one near the town of Khanewal, villagers had been friendly and helpful, proffering tea as they shook their heads. 'No. Not from here,' they said. For a while, it appeared that this Faridkot would also prove a wasted journey. The mayor said there had been no local police investigation, suggesting that the authorities did not view this place with suspicion. But, over time, inconsistencies in the villagers' accounts heightened suspicion that this was the place. 'He [Amir] has lived here for a few years,' said one villager, Mohammad Taj. 'He has three sons and three daughters.'

Noor Ahmed, a local farmer, said: 'Amir had a stall he pushed around, sometimes here, sometimes elsewhere. He was a meek man, he wasn't particularly religious. He just made ends meet and didn't quarrel with anyone.'

Still the picture was confusing. While sometimes confirming that Amir did live in the village, and had a son called Ajmal, on other occasions locals claimed to know nothing.

Finally one villager confirmed what was going on: 'You're being given misinformation. We've all known from the first day [of the news of the terrorist attack] that it was him, Ajmal Amir Kasab. His mother started crying when she saw his picture on the television.'

Attempts to meet Amir, the father, however, were not to be successful. Villagers eventually told us that he and his wife, Noor, had been mysteriously spirited away earlier in the week.

'Ajmal used to go to Lahore for work, as a labourer,' continued the villager who feared being named. 'He's been away for maybe four years. When he came back once a year, he would say things like, "We are going to free Kashmir."'

Wresting the whole of Kashmir from Indian rule is Lashkar-e-Taiba's aim. Ajmal had little education, according to locals. But it is still unclear whether he was radicalised in the village or once he had left to work elsewhere.

It is said that from the age of 13 he was shuttled between his parents' house and that of a brother in Lahore. If he did indeed speak fluent English, as claimed in Indian press reports, he would have had to have learnt that after he left the village.

But the villager who turned whistleblower said that local religious clerics were brainwashing youths in the area and that Lashkar-e-Taiba's founder, Hafiz Sayeed, had visited nearby Depalpur, where there were 'hundreds' of supporters. There was a Lashkar-e-Taiba office in Depalpur, but that had been hurriedly closed in the past few days. The Lashkar-e-Taiba newspaper is distributed in Depalpur and Faridkot. Depalpur lies in the south of Punjab province, an economically backward area long known for producing jihadists.

Shown a picture of Ajmal, the villager confirmed that he was the former Faridkot resident, who had last visited the village a couple of months ago at the last festival of Eid.

Some locals have claimed that this Faridkot, and another poor village nearby called Tara Singh, are a recruitment hotbed for Lashkar-e-Taiba, the militant group accused of carrying out the Mumbai attack. On the side of a building, just outside Faridkot, is graffiti that says: 'Go for jihad. Go for jihad. Markaz Dawat ul-Irshad.' MDI is the parent organisation of Lashkar-e-Taiba. In Depalpur, a banner on the side of the main street asks people to devote goatskins to Jamaat ud Dawa, another MDI offshoot.

Tara Singh is home to a radical madrasa - Islamic school - and there is another hardline seminary in nearby Depalpur. The nazim (mayor) of Tara Singh, Rao Zaeem Haider, said: 'There is a religious trend here. Some go for jihad, but not too many.'

Some reports emerging in India suggest that Ajmal may have joined Lashkar -e-Taiba less because of his Islamist convictions but in the hope that the jihad training he would receive would help to further the life of crime upon which he had already embarked. But once inside Lashkar's base, his world-view began to change.

Here, films on India's purported atrocities in Kashmir and heated lectures by fiery preachers led him to believe in Lashkar's cause. It has also been said that, when he was chosen for the Lashkar basic combat training, he performed so well that he was among a group of 32 men selected to undergo advanced training at a camp near Manshera, a course the organisation calls the Duara Khaas.

And finally, it seems, he was among an even smaller group selected for specialised commando and navigation training given to the fedayeen unit selected to attack Mumbai.

The authorities may now attempt to deny that Ajmal's parents live in Faridkot, but, according to some locals, they have been there for some 20 years. But by the end of our visit, a crucial piece of evidence had been gained. The Observer has managed to obtain an electoral roll for Faridkot, which falls under union council number 5, tehsil (area) Depalpur, district Okara. The list of 478 registered voters shows a 'Mohammed Amir', married to Noor Elahi, living in Faridkot. Amir's national identity card number is given as 3530121767339, and Noor's is 3530157035058.

That appears to be the last piece of the jigsaw. A man called Amir and his wife, Noor, do live in Faridkot, official records show. They have a son called Ajmal.

Following our last visit to Faridkot, the mayor, Wattoo, announced via the loudspeaker at the mosque that no one was to speak to any outsiders. By yesterday, Pakistani intelligence officials had descended in force on Faridkot. Locals, speaking by telephone, said a Pakistani TV crew and an American journalist had been roughed up and run out of town. It appeared that the backlash had begun.

 

[Vinod2070]

Come on, there must be some evidence, surely. Where's Vinod and daredevil? What were the results of the truth serum?

Finally one villager confirmed what was going on: 'You're being given misinformation. We've all known from the first day [of the news of the terrorist attack] that it was him, Ajmal Amir Kasab. His mother started crying when she saw his picture on the television.'

Attempts to meet Amir, the father, however, were not to be successful. Villagers eventually told us that he and his wife, Noor, had been mysteriously spirited away earlier in the week.

So where are your kalava theories Mr. RR.

He is indeed from Faridkot and is not a Hindu. There is no longer a doubt about that.

So what next!

 

[Flintlock]

Following our last visit to Faridkot, the mayor, Wattoo, announced via the loudspeaker at the mosque that no one was to speak to any outsiders. By yesterday, Pakistani intelligence officials had descended in force on Faridkot. Locals, speaking by telephone, said a Pakistani TV crew and an American journalist had been roughed up and run out of town. It appeared that the backlash had begun.

This is troubling. They are trying to hide it rather than fight it.

 

[Vinod2070]

Following our last visit to Faridkot, the mayor, Wattoo, announced via the loudspeaker at the mosque that no one was to speak to any outsiders. By yesterday, Pakistani intelligence officials had descended in force on Faridkot. Locals, speaking by telephone, said a Pakistani TV crew and an American journalist had been roughed up and run out of town. It appeared that the backlash had begun.

This is troubling. They are trying to hide it rather than fight it.

Exactly. This sort of thing will make Pakistan a complicit rather than the non state Pakistanis that are the focus now.

Incompetent fools. The horse has bolted. They may try what they want. The truth is out.