WHAT'S HAPPENING TO MUSLIMS IN INDIA 2020

[Sharma Ji]

Remember radio rwanda?

No, was too young at the time but have read up in bits and pieces about the whole situation there. Want to elaborate a bit more and explain what you were trying to say ?

Also, we aren't Hutu and Tutsis here.

no genocide anything is happening to Indian muslims here.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Let us take it in steps.

The start can be azaan via ( silent ) SMS and a ban on fire-crackers, especially on Diwali.

That will set up an evolved atmosphere for more advanced things like UCC.

I've been thinking about this. Everyone has a cell-phone nowadays; why not a voice message sent out to all subscribing phones? The fire-cracker ban is LONG overdue; many ecology-minded kids have started boycotting it for a few years now, and the movement is growing.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Let us take it in steps.

The start can be azaan via ( silent ) SMS and a ban on fire-crackers, especially on Diwali.

That will set up an evolved atmosphere for more advanced things like UCC.

Agree, silent message for prayer call to all who sign up.

Firecrackers are beautiful though, they should limit the decibel levels but let the light show happen, and also put some stricter pollution emission controls on the light ones. It's a once a year thing, not 5 times a day.

 

[jamahir]

I've been thinking about this. Everyone has a cell-phone nowadays; why not a voice message sent out to all subscribing phones?

Good idea.

The fire-cracker ban is LONG overdue; many ecology-minded kids have started boycotting it for a few years now, and the movement is growing.

Yes, I have definitely sensed a reduction in the last few year. And some have even approached the Supreme Court. This is an article from 2015 :

As the festival season arrives, fear of pollution reaching abysmal levels is on a rise.

In a first-of-its-kind case, parents of three toddlers, aged between six and 14 months have approached the Supreme Court seeking its intervention to stop the use of loud firecrackers during Dussehra and Diwali, asserting their children’s right to be brought up in a pollution-free environment.

According to news published by Hindustan Times, petitioners Arjun Goyal, Aarav Bhandari and Zoya Rao Bhasin – all between six to 14 months have sought the apex court’s intervention as authorities have failed to take adequate measures to curb air and noise pollution.

“They are foremost prone to lung disease, asthma, coughing, bronchitis, retarded nervous system development and cognitive impairment,” the petitioners submitted and urged the court to issue immediate orders restraining government agencies from issuing licences for sale of firecrackers in the Capital.

Vulnerable infants

The widespread use of firecrackers in Delhi – declared the most polluted city in the world by the World Health Organization – during the festive season exposes vulnerable infants to severe diseases such as asthma and worsens their lung conditions, the petition said.

Asserting their fundamental right to a clean and healthy environment under Article 21, the toddlers said, “The right to breathe clean air is essential for a conducive environment for growth and development.”

Though the Supreme Court has declared the state as the protector of natural resources, the latter has failed to perform its job effectively, the petition alleged.

Authorities haven’t laid down any guidelines to ensure that manufacturers or sellers conform to environmental norms while distributing these crackers. A look at the licences will “show that environmental and pollution concerns are furthest from the minds of the Government representatives,” the petition said.

Several reports from health journals and research papers were given to the court in support of the petition to show how pollutants released from fireworks worsen the lung conditions of children.

“The imminent advent of festivals that involve widespread fireworks are a clear and present danger to the health of the Applicants and the other children who are residents of Delhi,” the petition said.

It cited a study in Bangalore that shows how a widespread awareness campaign and enforcement mechanisms led to a sharp 32 per cent decrease in pollution levels there during Diwali time in 2013 compared to a year ago. The petition said the ruling brought some respite to Delhi residents but studies thereafter revealed that cases of wheezing, respiratory diseases, exacerbation of bronchial asthma and bronchitis increase by 40 per cent during Diwali.

Meanwhile, the National Green Tribunal on Monday sought response from the Union Government on a lawyer's plea seeking designated time and place for use of firecrackers during festivals like Diwali.

A bench headed by Justice U D Salvi issued notice to Union Ministry of Environment Forests and Climate Change (MoEFCC), Ministry of Commerce and Industry, Petroleum and Explosives Safety Organisation and others while seeking their reply by October 12.

According to Economic Times, the plea moved by advocate Piyush Singh says there is severe impact of firecrackers on the environment and causes air and noise pollution. Singh had contended in his plea that the chemicals released into the environment due to bursting of crackers caused negative effects on the health and "every individual especially children, pregnant women and old people are at an increased risk of suffering health complications due to it".

The petition has also referred to a Supreme Court judgement that said, "In no religious text book it is written that Diwali has to be celebrated by bursting crackers. Diwali is considered as a festival of lights, not of noise."

Earlier in 2005, the Supreme Court had issued directions to restrict the use of fireworks and fixed 10 pm deadline for their use. It also changed the basis for evaluating fireworks from the noise level to its chemical composition

Agree, silent message for prayer call to all who sign up.

Firecrackers are beautiful though, they should limit the decibel levels but let the light show happen, and also put some stricter pollution emission controls on the light ones. It's a once a year thing, not 5 times a day.

Can you tell me how fire-crackers are beautiful ??

Azaan on mosque loudspeaker and Diwali fire-crackers - both are unnecessary sounds. People should become more sensitive.

Please the the above linked article and this post of mine from a few days ago. Start there and follow the discussion.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Azaan on mosque loudspeaker and Diwali fire-crackers, both are unnecessary sounds.

I agree. My main problem is with loud noises and explosions because it's very cruel to stray cats and dogs and I imagine the birds have a terrible time of it too when it comes to Diwali.

The Azan is just pure annoying, there is no reason why non muslims or even non religious muslims should be subject to it 5 times a day, every day. It gets particularly annoying in the winters in a lot of north Indian cities when you don't use an AC or a fan and some mullah starts with that crap 4 - 5 am. Cell phone penetration is huge in India, everyone has one, the govt. could come up with some some of app or SMS or auto recorded call facility to subscribers, problem solved.

For Diwali, put a cap on the decibel level, no more "atom" and "hydro" crackers etc

and enforce strict environment friendly emissions norms on the rest but not an outright ban on light shows.. nothing wrong with 'anars' and fuljhadis, pencils, chakris, and rockets that light things up once a year.

Please the the above linked article and this post of mine from a few days ago. Start there and follow the discussion.

Looks like another one of those messy unpleasant trolly Hindu vs Muslim threads, no thanks.

 

[jamahir]

I agree. My main problem is with loud noises and explosions because it's very cruel to stray cats and dogs and I imagine the birds have a terrible time of it too when it comes to Diwali.

Dogs revel in noise but cats, birds and many humans are troubled.

For Diwali, put a cap on the decibel level, no more "atom" and "hydro" crackers etc

A total ban would be better and simpler. Other than noise and smoke there are lot of injuries, including blinding.

And I am talking about a ban for all time, including for wedding and election-victory celebrations. A more silent India.

but not an outright ban on light shows.. nothing wrong with 'anars' and fuljhadis, pencils, chakris, and rockets that light things up once a year.

Don't anars, phooljhadis and chakris make smoke and startling noise ??

And don't rockets make noise ??

Looks like another one of those messy unpleasant trolly Hindu vs Muslim threads, no thanks.

Among the discussion in that thread I proved that originally Diwali ( Deepavali ) meant "Festival of lights" and involved lighting of deep which is a small clay oil-lamp. The fire-crackers came in later, from China. So why can't you go back to the deeps ??

 

[lightoftruth]

Let us take it in steps.

The start can be azaan via ( silent ) SMS and a ban on fire-crackers, especially on Diwali.

That will set up an evolved atmosphere for more advanced things like UCC.

A welcome start,
But comparison is wrong, Diwali is celebrated once a year and firecrackers are banned, infact many people got arrested last diwali because their children were bursting crackers whereas azaan is done 5 times a day throughout the year it's a regular nuisance with no arrests or checks from the courts.
More appropriate would be that all loudspeakers are banned be it for azaan or jagrata or Mandirs or Gurdwaras.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Dogs revel in noise but cats, birds and many humans are troubled.

no they don't, they are among the worst affected and become very disoriented and run away from their neighborhoods, a lot of them get injured from the fire hazard too.

A total ban would be better and simpler. Other than noise and smoke there are lot of injuries, including blinding.

And I am talking about a ban for all time, including for wedding and election-victory celebrations. A more silent India.

A more silent India can be achieved by capping the Db levels.

Also more strict regulations to improve safety + awareness campaigns could help alleviate a lot of the bad injuries.

Among the discussion in that thread I proved that originally Diwali ( Deepavali ) meant "Celebration of light" and involved lighting of deep which is a small clay oil-lamp. The fire-crackers came in later, from China. So why can't you go back to the deeps ??

I love the simplicity of the deeps.

Chinese crackers only appeared in the market these past few years, we've been manufacturing our own for forever.

 

[jamahir]

A welcome start,
But comparison is wrong, Diwali is celebrated once a year and firecrackers are banned, infact many people got arrested last diwali because their children were bursting crackers whereas azaan is done 5 times a day throughout the year it's a regular nuisance with no arrests or checks from the courts.

Since you are defending fire-crackers let me also defend azaan just to let you know the incorrectness of your logic.

Azaan, called for 3 to 4 minutes, and at a lower sound level to those not in the immediate vicinity of the mosque. And most people not even waking up from sleep by the call for the early morning prayer. Versus Diwali fire-crackers starting at 8 AM to 11 PM for five days, the crackers ranging from tap-tap of the pistol-caps to the buzz of the anar to the ten-thousand ladi which can be heard kilometers away to the regular thunderclap of the multi-rocket. Five days of constant noise. And all this one hears while sitting at home. Add the acrid smoke wafting in from the windows. If one ventures out, one risks being hit by a bursting ladi or a horizontally-flying rocket. Add to this the fire-cracker celebration for another festival, Dussehra, in some regions. Add to all this fire-crackers being used in wedding celebrations and political rallies.

Makes sense ?? Is your demand valid ??

That is why I provided the compromise.

More appropriate would be that all loudspeakers are banned be it for azaan or jagrata or Mandirs or Gurdwaras.

Agreed.

A more silent India can be achieved by capping the Db levels.

Also more strict regulations to improve safety + awareness campaigns could help alleviate a lot of the bad injuries.

If we take the Indian membership of PDF, most of them are unthinking drones who wouldn't bother following rules for this. And please read my reply to lightoftruth above.

A simple ban would be the first step towards a more silent India. And there are things in other fields that we can discuss another day.

I love the simplicity of the deeps.

Agreed.

Chinese crackers only appeared in the market these past few years, we've been manufacturing our own for forever.

I am not speaking of the recent bloom in Chinese fire-crackers replacing the older Sivakasi fire-crackers.

If you read the link to my post ( from another thread ) that I provided in post# 124, there is info in that thread on fire-crackers in India being used hundreds of years ago but origining in China. There would have been transfer of technology.

 

[The_Showstopper]

Agree, silent message for prayer call to all who sign up.

Firecrackers are beautiful though, they should limit the decibel levels but let the light show happen, and also put some stricter pollution emission controls on the light ones. It's a once a year thing, not 5 times a day.

Then in that case, even Azaan is also beautiful unlike the dorky Bhajan keertans that run for hours every day annoying everyone. We should also ban Gandpathi visarjan, Durga visarjan, holi and Diwali crackers as all cause pollution and permanently scar the atmosphere...

 

[Sharma Ji]

Then in that case, even Azaan is also beautiful unlike the dorky Bhajan keertans that run for hours every day annoying everyone. We should also ban Gandpathi visarjan, Durga visarjan, holi and Diwali crackers as all cause pollution and permanently scar the atmosphere...

A beautiful fireworks display in the sky once a year vs having to hear some arab bs 5 times a day are not the same thing.

I'm ok with banning loud bhajan keertans.

Keep your loud noise inside your religious complexes and make sure entire neighbourhoods aren't disturbed by this Azan and Bhajan nonsense.

Visarjans definitely need to be regulated because of all the pollution and damaging water bodies, aquatic life.

 

[Zibago]

No, was too young at the time but have read up in bits and pieces about the whole situation there. Want to elaborate a bit more and explain what you were trying to say ?

Also, we aren't Hutu and Tutsis here.

no genocide anything is happening to Indian muslims here.

Thereare steps to everything but you are rught its ill my imagination they srent building camps for Muslim nor are the demonizing them on media and blaming them for the coronavirus you keep taking the blue pill

 

[Sharma Ji]

Thereare steps to everything but you are rught its ill my imagination they srent building camps for Muslim nor are the demonizing them on media and blaming them for the coronavirus you keep taking the blue pill

Detention centers for illegal aliens are even found in the US, they're not planning to kill anyone there.

The rest is just media noise, and there too they went after the TJ guys because they're leader, Maulana Saad and some others are on audio calling the whole thing an anti muslim hoax etc, nobody blamed all muslims.

They'll be fine, no genocide or anything of the sort is on the books.

 

[lightoftruth]

Since you are defending fire-crackers let me also defend azaan just to let you know the incorrectness of your logic.

Azaan, called for 3 to 4 minutes, and at a lower sound level to those not in the immediate vicinity of the mosque. And most people not even waking up from sleep by the call for the early morning prayer. Versus Diwali fire-crackers starting at 8 AM to 11 PM for five days, the crackers ranging from tap-tap of the pistol-caps to the buzz of the anar to the ten-thousand ladi which can be heard kilometers away to the regular thunderclap of the multi-rocket. Five days of constant noise. And all this one hears while sitting at home. Add the acrid smoke wafting in from the windows. If one ventures out, one risks being hit by a bursting ladi or a horizontally-flying rocket. Add to this the fire-cracker celebration for another festival, Dussehra, in some regions. Add to all this fire-crackers being used in wedding celebrations and political rallies.

Makes sense ?? Is your demand valid ??

That is why I provided the compromise.

Your initial premise is incorrect ,i am not defending firecrackers (Diwali is much more than firecrackers for me),besides the debate on them is meaningless after the courts intervened.
You are again going on & on over an invalid comparison.
You may feel azaan is the most melodious sound their is but for me its nothing more than nuisance thus why should i and similarly millions of other suffer from the same 5 times a day is the question i am interested in knowing, the case is similar for jagratas , Mandir, bhajans ,Gurudwara etc

Thus i feel their should be a blanket ban on use of loudspeakers.

Agreed.

Glad you agreed.

 

[jamahir]

i am not defending firecrackers (Diwali is much more than firecrackers for me),besides the debate on them is meaningless after the courts intervened.

Then do I take it to mean your acceptance of the idea that fire-crackers should be banned, totally ??

You are again going on & on over an invalid comparison.
You may feel azaan is the most melodious sound their is but for me its nothing more than nuisance thus why should i and similarly millions of other suffer from the same 5 times a day is the question i am interested in knowing,

My previous post was just to show the incorrectness of the argument you made priorly.

As I have written before, I too desire the azaan to be not delivered over the mosque loudspeaker but by some other means such as a cell phone app or special voice message.

the case is similar for jagratas , Mandir, bhajans ,Gurudwara etc

Good to know that.

Thus i feel their should be a blanket ban on use of loudspeakers.

Agreed.