What would India do if Soviet Union was at its gates?

[Kompromat]

They would have done exactly what they are doing against China, pretend its not there.

 

[Hellfire]

@Syama Ayas we were willing to move in to create a buffer in case of a possible soviet invasion of Pakistan. We just didn't think the idea of USSR on our borders was a comfortable one.

 

[barbarosa]

Where was India when USSR take over on Afghanistan on 27 November 1979?
India was the complete ally of USSR against Afghanistan and its people.

 

[dadeechi]

Not really, Pakistan wanted to keep a neutral stance against alignment to either ideology, but that was not to be as the US was looked at in better light to the godless Muslim oppressing Soviets.

Did you apply the same godless yardstick to China?

Didn't Pakistan facilitate the detente between US & China in 1972, both of which were opposed to USSR?

For the folks who say Pakistan had good relations with USSR should first understand that was primarily due the left leaning Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. The day he was executed, Soviet-Pak relations started to take a downward turn. Bhutto was executed on April 4th, 1979 and USSR invaded Afghanistan on December 24th, 1979 .

 

[punit]

Indian often poking nose on Pakistan joining the anti-soviet war in Afghanistan..lets turn the table and see how India would react under such situation..The scenario assume asymmetric disparity between Red army and those of Indian republic in both - conventional and non-conventional weapons, machinery and war fighting abilities...

WHY u gave Base to USAF in 60 s to operate U2 planes !

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

What reference? Didn't get you.

Something I can read.

Did you apply the same godless yardstick to China?

Didn't Pakistan facilitate the detente between US & China in 1972, both of which are opposed to USSR?

For the folks who say Pakistan had good relations with USSR should first understand that that was primarily due the left leaning Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. The day he was executed, Soviet-Pak relations started to take a downward turn. Bhutto was executed on April 4th, 1979 and USSR invaded Afghanistan on December 24th, 1979 .

After the '62 war no. Pakistan realized in the future it couldn't beat India conventionally. The flux with China only happened because Nehru wasn't committed to fully wage war against the Chinese, as he would against Pakistan.

Pakistan did offer itself as the mediator to a potential ice breaking in US-China relations. Henry Kissinger was present in Pakistan multiple times, officially and unofficially.

It was after a meeting with Henry Kissinger, after the Smiling Buddha, that he threatened Pakistan with consequences if they decided to go nuclear. That Bhutto began looking elsewhere for a better ally.

Bhutto visited the Soviet Union to agree to MOUs across a variety of fields, while he was President Ayub's aide, and continued to talk with the Soviets when he was Foreign Minister.

He continued to support the communist Chinese over Taiwan earning him praise from them, when the rest of the world considered Taiwan the representatives of China. This was around the same time the Soviet and Chinese had their border skirmishes and decline in relations, Bhutto was able to manage this efficiently and enhanced ties with both nations. Even after the US threatened him, he went to China to sign military, economic, and political treaties. When the Chinese got pissed off at India over their claim to Aksai and the eastern portions of India, they invited Pakistan for a joint operations. But Ayub refused instead offering a joint defense pact with India, when he was sweet talked by the Americans into resolving he Kashmir debacle in favor of Pakistan.

Bhutto again visited the SU in 1975, this time as the PM, wanting to develop greater ties since they helped make the Steel Mills. Bhutto's cozyness with the Soviets pissed off President Carter, who embargoed Pakistan in response to Pakistan willing to create transport between itself and the Soviets to offer them a year round warm water port into the Indian Ocean.

What Bhutto lacked as PM, he made greater as FM.

 

[NALANDA]

I highly doubt india has the resilience and a agency like ISI to deal with a arrogant nuclear armed superpower .We sacrificed a lot but at the same we got plenty of experience in covert warfare which india definitely lacks today.
"Wo kehtay hai na jo hota hai ache ke liye hota hai" Sahi kehtay hain

Covert warfare = exploding bombs and suicide bombs in busy market.

Your army became a willing pone . That's the character of your Army. Yesterday against USSR.. later against your own creation Taliban and future anything that would appear on the horizon.

China too a communist country..has been our neighbour for ages..We are least bothered. Democracy and true democracy at grass root levels kills all soviet kinds of forces.

The only resilience Pakistan has shown is to fight others war for money like a mercenary. To give land to China to appease them...to allow the country to be used as bases for other country be it USA or Saudi Arabia....

India dealt it by spearheading non alignment. No doles from USA or USSR but things at own terms.

Pakistan has been and is for hire bro....ISI acts like the Dalal at best.

 

[Hellfire]

Something I can read.

Try PG Wodehouse for humor

Sowing the Wind: The Seeds of Conflict in the Middle East by John Keay
Good read.

Still didn't get your first quote and this one.

Please elaborate what do you want to read????

 

[SQ8]

Actually, may not be so, as the resultant demographic disbalance will be a nonstarter as I pointed out was in the case of Bangladesh to @That Guy. If a pragmatic view of the Indian Military's strategic thinking (and minor convergence of the civil thinking by mistake to it) is taken, the primary objective remains Sindh/Baluchistan as a source of trouble/disbalance. Gujral's singular act of dismantling all RAW networks and winding up the various projects there followed by Vajpayee's direction to close down all Pakistan oriented black ops was and is a disaster for which we are still paying.

However, in light of the effects of your Afghan policy, the Pakistani policy makers have done the job for us.

You are referring to a current scenario whereas the timeline for the topic is 1979-1988. There is no interesting in annexing Pakistan, occupation and annexation is different.

Annexation means you are eventually bound to offer them similar human rights and privileges since you take the area as part of India. Occupation means just sitting on the land and oppressing the population whilst usurping any national resources.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Try PG Wodehouse for humor

Sowing the Wind: The Seeds of Conflict in the Middle East by John Keay
Good read.

Still didn't get your first quote and this one.

Please elaborate what do you want to read????

A reference to where you got this:

An amendment. If you recall, at one time there was indeed a thought under consideration by Soviets of a full scale invasion of Pakistan. Had that occurred we would have moved in to create a buffer against them.

 

[That Guy]

You expect ppl to travel in time to know things ? I dint tell you that I am an expert only quoted the facts.
None of us are experts here. If you want to have a discussion do it with facts. Being a TTA does not give you license to impose your views on others. If you cant disagree amicably dont bother quoting me.

Nixons hatred for India & Indira is well known. Calling her names (bitch) and supporting genocide in bangladesh ignoring blood telegram must be one of his notable achievements.

Your jealousy & hatred for India shows up in your closeted thinking. Dont quote me again. I am not interested in a discussion having no facts but vile hatred filled with baseless personal opinion.

First of all YOU quoted ME. You wanna be a dick when replying to me? I can be a dick replying to you, and that is exactly what I did. Don't insult others, if you can't handle taking it yourself.

I said nothing that was out of the ordinary, and in fact @hellfire and @Syama Ayas even provided references to most of what we were talking about, so it isn't like what I said was imaginary, which you claimed it was.

I have no jealousy or hatred for India, I live in Canada, and this is where I'll live for the rest of my life. What the hell do I have to be jealous about? My free healthcare? The two houses my family owns? The car I own? The free high quality education I received? Tell me, what in the hell do I have to be jealous about?

As for my "google quip", if you just learned about the topic a few minutes before hand, don't pretend that makes you an expert. You're right, none of us are experts, and I have never claimed to be, but we clearly knew more about this subject than you did, you pretending otherwise doesn't change reality.

 

[That Guy]

I was right,you are a highly disturbed person.

No, you're just a troll.

 

[dadeechi]

Something I can read.



After the '62 war no. Pakistan realized in the future it couldn't beat India conventionally. The flux with China only happened because Nehru wasn't committed to fully wage war against the Chinese, as he would against Pakistan.

Pakistan did offer itself as the mediator to a potential ice breaking in US-China relations. Henry Kissinger was present in Pakistan multiple times, officially and unofficially.

It was after a meeting with Henry Kissinger, after the Smiling Buddha, that he threatened Pakistan with consequences if they decided to go nuclear. That Bhutto began looking elsewhere for a better ally.

Bhutto visited the Soviet Union to agree to MOUs across a variety of fields, while he was President Ayub's aide, and continued to talk with the Soviets when he was Foreign Minister.

He continued to support the communist Chinese over Taiwan earning him praise from them, when the rest of the world considered Taiwan the representatives of China. This was around the same time the Soviet and Chinese had their border skirmishes and decline in relations, Bhutto was able to manage this efficiently and enhanced ties with both nations. Even after the US threatened him, he went to China to sign military, economic, and political treaties. When the Chinese got pissed off at India over their claim to Aksai and the eastern portions of India, they invited Pakistan for a joint operations. But Ayub refused instead offering a joint defense pact with India, when he was sweet talked by the Americans into resolving he Kashmir debacle in favor of Pakistan.

Bhutto again visited the SU in 1975, this time as the PM, wanting to develop greater ties since they helped make the Steel Mills. Bhutto's cozyness with the Soviets pissed off President Carter, who embargoed Pakistan in response to Pakistan willing to create transport between itself and the Soviets to offer them a year round warm water port into the Indian Ocean.

What Bhutto lacked as PM, he made greater as FM.

 

[somebozo]

Something I can read.



After the '62 war no. Pakistan realized in the future it couldn't beat India conventionally. The flux with China only happened because Nehru wasn't committed to fully wage war against the Chinese, as he would against Pakistan.

Pakistan did offer itself as the mediator to a potential ice breaking in US-China relations. Henry Kissinger was present in Pakistan multiple times, officially and unofficially.

It was after a meeting with Henry Kissinger, after the Smiling Buddha, that he threatened Pakistan with consequences if they decided to go nuclear. That Bhutto began looking elsewhere for a better ally.

Bhutto visited the Soviet Union to agree to MOUs across a variety of fields, while he was President Ayub's aide, and continued to talk with the Soviets when he was Foreign Minister.

He continued to support the communist Chinese over Taiwan earning him praise from them, when the rest of the world considered Taiwan the representatives of China. This was around the same time the Soviet and Chinese had their border skirmishes and decline in relations, Bhutto was able to manage this efficiently and enhanced ties with both nations. Even after the US threatened him, he went to China to sign military, economic, and political treaties. When the Chinese got pissed off at India over their claim to Aksai and the eastern portions of India, they invited Pakistan for a joint operations. But Ayub refused instead offering a joint defense pact with India, when he was sweet talked by the Americans into resolving he Kashmir debacle in favor of Pakistan.

Bhutto again visited the SU in 1975, this time as the PM, wanting to develop greater ties since they helped make the Steel Mills. Bhutto's cozyness with the Soviets pissed off President Carter, who embargoed Pakistan in response to Pakistan willing to create transport between itself and the Soviets to offer them a year round warm water port into the Indian Ocean.

What Bhutto lacked as PM, he made greater as FM.

Superb post dude!

 

[Hellfire]

You are referring to a current scenario whereas the timeline for the topic is 1979-1988. There is no interesting in annexing Pakistan, occupation and annexation is different.

Annexation means you are eventually bound to offer them similar human rights and privileges since you take the area as part of India. Occupation means just sitting on the land and oppressing the population whilst usurping any national resources.

Indeed not. It was assessment of US that there was an understanding between RAW & KGB to support Baluchis during the quoted period also. The active intervention by Indians in Sindh in black ops in this period is something even you are aware of, indeed the nexus of MQM-India is not a new concept.

The remaining part, thanks. However I do understand the difference, unlike some, am sure, over here.

My contention was that occupation was never an Indian objective, ever. Reason being the demographic balance resulting thereof.

Something I can read.

South Asian Insecurity & The Great Powers - Barry Buzan et al.

Sorry for the brevity. Suggest read this as it highlights the Indian insecurity over loss of Afghanistan as a buffer state against USSR which historically eyed subcontinent and also apprehensions of loss of Pakistan as a buffer for India in a possible Soviet invasion. India was not keen on having USSR on its border.

Been quite long back since I read it hence can't quote anything of it.

Thanks