What will the Thyphoon and The J-17 blk III add to the Egyptian air force

[The SC]

Eurofighter Typhoon

JF-17Blk III Thunder

 

[volatile]

Egypt joining the programe will be huge boost easily 100 examples TOT ,WOW

 

[Gomig-21]

Eurofighter Typhoon

It's too bad that many here don't understand Arabic as what this guy basically said -- besides describing all the functions and equipment and features of the Rafale but mostly the Typhoon -- is that the Typhoon will essentially be an addition to the Rafale aircraft, which is what we've been saying since the news of the possible mega deal came out and many were freaking out about "oh my God, what a logistical nightmare." But in fact, it's not out of the realm of possibility that both delta/canard platforms are maintained by the same crews and even flown by the same pilots or, they can specialize the pilots. Either would be fine, but I would think that training the pilots to fly both platforms isn't as difficult as many would think because of the incredible similarities between the two birds would make that process much easier. Either way, the maintenance crew can easily manage both aircraft and they can essentially combine them into the same squadrons. So there would be roughly 48 aircraft between the two brands making 4 squadrons that function under one tactical fighter wing.

 

[dbc]

It's too bad that many here don't understand Arabic as what this guy basically said -- besides describing all the functions and equipment and features of the Rafale but mostly the Typhoon -- is that the Typhoon will essentially be an addition to the Rafale aircraft, which is what we've been saying since the news of the possible mega deal came out and many were freaking out about "oh my God, what a logistical nightmare." But in fact, it's not out of the realm of possibility that both delta/canard platforms are maintained by the same crews and even flown by the same pilots or, they can specialize the pilots. Either would be fine, but I would think that training the pilots to fly both platforms isn't as difficult as many would think because of the incredible similarities between the two birds would make that process much easier. Either way, the maintenance crew can easily manage both aircraft and they can essentially combine them into the same squadrons. So there would be roughly 48 aircraft between the two brands making 4 squadrons that function under one tactical fighter wing.

Sorry this is an unrealistic expectation. There is no similarity between the Rafale and Typhoon inside the cockpit never mind the flight characteristics and weapons.

 

[The SC]

Sorry this is an unrealistic expectation. There is no similarity between the Rafale and Typhoon inside the cockpit never mind the flight characteristics and weapons.

Here is a good read about both:

Typhoon versus Rafale: The final word

....."In conclusions: both are fantastic fighter aircraft of which European defence communities should be proud. Rafale currently has the edge over Typhoon in terms of ground-attack versatility, radar modernisation and manoeuvrability at high-loads. Equally, Typhoon has the edge in the air-superiority role due to its superior high altitude performance and thrust to weight ratio, as well as long-range armament. The advantages in maturity for Rafale are more to do with failures in the Eurofighter consortium to invest and coordinate upgrades in the way that Dassault and the French government have managed, than any inherent limitation in the Typhoon itself. Indeed, with its larger radar aperture, power generation capabilities, engine power and growth potential Typhoon has more development potential than Rafale – if it can survive in production long enough. A hypothetical air force which operated both types, whilst that would be expensive, would enjoy phenomenal complementary capabilities and would arguably be stronger than a similarly sized force comprised only of one type."

https://hushkit.net/2015/12/18/typhoon-versus-rafale-the-final-word/

 

[khanmubashir]

Here is a good read about both:

Typhoon versus Rafale: The final word

....."In conclusions: both are fantastic fighter aircraft of which European defence communities should be proud. Rafale currently has the edge over Typhoon in terms of ground-attack versatility, radar modernisation and manoeuvrability at high-loads. Equally, Typhoon has the edge in the air-superiority role due to its superior high altitude performance and thrust to weight ratio, as well as long-range armament. The advantages in maturity for Rafale are more to do with failures in the Eurofighter consortium to invest and coordinate upgrades in the way that Dassault and the French government have managed, than any inherent limitation in the Typhoon itself. Indeed, with its larger radar aperture, power generation capabilities, engine power and growth potential Typhoon has more development potential than Rafale – if it can survive in production long enough. A hypothetical air force which operated both types, whilst that would be expensive, would enjoy phenomenal complementary capabilities and would arguably be stronger than a similarly sized force comprised only of one type."

https://hushkit.net/2015/12/18/typhoon-versus-rafale-the-final-word/

Similar capabilities doesn't mean they gave same internal systems
Different engine radar and components
All needing separate maintenance

 

[The SC]

Similar capabilities doesn't mean they gave same internal systems
Different engine radar and components
All needing separate maintenance

That is the easiest part nowadays..With sophisticated diagnostic tools both on the ground in the Shop and on the Aircraft's computer..

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Egypt is buying JF 17?

 

[Gentelman]

Egypt is buying JF 17?

No...

 

[Gomig-21]

A hypothetical air force which operated both types, whilst that would be expensive, would enjoy phenomenal complementary capabilities and would arguably be stronger than a similarly sized force comprised only of one type."

And there in lies exactly what we've been saying which in turn, makes the compatibility of both aircraft much easier to absorb for a single crew and pilot than any other combination aircraft of different makes out there.

Sorry this is an unrealistic expectation. There is no similarity between the Rafale and Typhoon inside the cockpit never mind the flight characteristics and weapons.

Quite the contrary. There are a lot more similarities than differences and even the differences are marginal at best which don't suggest that any competent airforce (which already operates one of the aircraft quite fluently) could not easily absorb the other one using the same crews.

The cockpit ergonomics are almost identical. The only differences in the flying characteristics are in the canards where on the Typhoon, they operate more as horizontal stabilizers being pushed a lot more forward on the nose and fuselage so they catch and influence the air a lot more than the canards on the Rafale where they were purposely placed closer to the wings to allow them to manipulate the airflow over the wings and increase the flight characteristic of the main wings themselves. All that said, that bit of detail is merely informational since it doesn't even matter to any pilot learning to fly either aircraft because the FBW system controls all those aspects and all the pilots need to do is move the stick and the computer does the rest. So that aspect becomes moot, really. So flight characteristics are almost a nothing, with minimal differences and mostly in the slow-speed envelope where each has its own benefits and flaws. But who's to say that can never be taught or learned by the same pilots?

The other differences that would take a little longer to learn (which is really not a big deal) is the ECM packages on each aircraft with SPECTRA on the Rafale and DASS on Eurofighter and the latter is more conventional while SPECTRA is a bit unique, but it isn't a deal breaker by any means. When the EAF purchased the Rafale, the training and handing over the aircraft to Egyptian pilots was very short-lived. It happened very quickly from when the deal was struck and the first few aircraft showed up and fluently absorbed in Egypt. This is actually a testament to both, the ease of learning the aircraft for pilots and crew as well as the men themselves. Nothing that wouldn't take a little bit more time for the men to train on and get used to. Oh and one more thing, both have the option of operating towed decoys which is another similarity.

Weapons. If there is ever a pair of aircraft that share more commonality in weapons other than US & Russian jets of different models, it's the pair of these.

Both operate:
1) AIM-120
2) AIM-9
3) AIM-132 ASRAAM
4) Meteor

Different weapons:
EFT
1) AIM-2000 IRST
Rafale
1) MICA IR/IM/NG

Air to ground:
Both operate almost every type of GBU in identical ways
The only difference that I see is the Brimstone on the EFT
while the Rafale uses HAMMERs.

Air to sea
1) Both MBDA MARTE
2) Both fire the Harpoon
3) There are several other similar ones I can't find ATM.

Cruise Missiles
1) Both use the same cruise missile it's just named differently with the French SCALP and the EFT's Storm Shadow. So those are practically the same exact CMs.

PODS:
1) Both are set up to operate the LIGHNING II and the Damocles pods.
But since the Israelis have a lot in the designing and fabricating of the Lightning pods, we won't see that in Egypt but the EAF already operates the Damocles on their Rafales and so that makes it even more interoperable between both aircraft as a Rafale carrying a Damocles pod can share its info with a Typhoon and vice versa.

There's probably so much more I can't think of right now. Oh, Engines. Both are Turbofans that drop down the same way and if EAF engine crews are already playing with the Rafale's SNECMA M88, it won't take them much at all to learn the ins and outs of the Eurojet EJ200

Both use an IRST that works almost identically. So it's not really that big of an ordeal to incorporate both fighters under one fighter wing.

EDIT: There is one good difference in that the Rafale has the RBE2 AESA radar while the Rafale has the Captor with most likely the E-SCAN. So that little bit will take a little adjusting but once a pilot is familiar with the use of any military radar, it shouldn't be a huge ordeal to learn a different system. This happens with airforces all the time just with upgrades within the same aircraft through time.

 

[The SC]

Egypt joining the programe will be huge boost easily 100 examples TOT ,WOW

Yes..I guess more numbers when you are manufacturing your own version.. it can have the Selex AESA radar, some Russian IRST and a European Engine.. or just as it is from China-Pakistan.. It is all good..

No...

What do you know?
Enlighten us....please, please, please!

 

[Signalian]

Yes..I guess more numbers when you are manufacturing your own version.. it can have the Selex AESA radar, some Russian IRST and a European Engine.. or just as it is from China-Pakistan.. It is all good..


What do you know?
Enlighten us....please, please, please!

any official report or document regarding JF-17 for EAF apart from video you posted?

 

[FuturePAF]

The JF-17 Block III opens up modern 4th gen capabilities, and relatively modest costs, as well as provides an alternative supplier to western countries, which could embargo spares or weapons in the event of a conflict.

DCS has been a boost to marketing this jet, but I hope the PAF shoots many videos with the Block III during overseas exercises. Showing off its capabilities with recognizable landmarks like a long range SAR map of the Pyramids and objects around it. Locking up targets; i.e. other Egyptian aircraft with its IRST and not its radar, allowing a long range PL-15 shot in radio silence. Using a HMS and the PL-10E to lock up an Egyptian F-16 in a mock dogfight, and holding lock.

If the JF-17 can carry a Supersonic Antiship cruise missile, it could be a big marketing plus.

 

[The SC]

any official report or document regarding JF-17 for EAF apart from video you posted?

Yes.. a few threads too.. on the same section.. Arab Defence Forum..

The JF-17 Block III opens up modern 4th gen capabilities, and relatively modest costs, as well as provides an alternative supplier to western countries, which could embargo spares or weapons in the event of a conflict.

DCS has been a boost to marketing this jet, but I hope the PAF shoots many videos with the Block III during overseas exercises. Showing off its capabilities with recognizable landmarks like a long range SAR map of the Pyramids and objects around it. Locking up targets; i.e. other Egyptian aircraft with its IRST and not its radar, allowing a long range PL-15 shot in radio silence. Using a HMS and the PL-10E to lock up an Egyptian F-16 in a mock dogfight, and holding lock.

If the JF-17 can carry a Supersonic Antiship cruise missile, it could be a big marketing plus.

I can tell you there is a long waiting list for the JF-17 blk III in the Arab world.. but don't want you to get too enthusiastic too soon.. It is all positive but it will take the necessary time to test and induct the Blk III in Pakistan first.. also to fill its own needs first.. Arabs will get it with ToT from China and Pakistan as soon as it matures..and even Iranians if there is no sanctions' extensions on them.. these are the principal ones that have shown genuine interest.. mostly the Arabs, namely KSA and Egypt..but there might be others from all quarters of earth..

 

[FuturePAF]

Yes.. a few threads too.. on the same section.. Arab Defence Forum..


I can tell you there is a long waiting list for the JF-17 blk III in the Arab world.. but don't want you to get too enthusiastic too soon.. It is all positive but it will take the necessary time to test and induct the Blk III in Pakistan first.. also to fill its own needs first.. Arabs will get it with ToT from China and Pakistan as soon as it matures..and even Iranians if there is no sanctions' extensions on them.. these are the principal ones that have shown genuine interest.. mostly the Arabs, namely KSA and Egypt..but there might be others from all quarters of earth..

Not overly enthusiastic, just pointing out the need to spend more on marketing. A picture is worth a thousand words, and a video more so. If More high quality videos are shot at exercises and mixed in with DCS footage, it can really bring hike the idea. Similar to what Saab does in its marketing.