What will a secular pakistan look like?

[Owl of Abott]

probably better then the pakistan we now have

 

[Bouncer]

Reading from this I believe you yourself are not sure what the Hudood laws is:

Thank you, but I do know what hudood laws are and how they are being used. You just gave your opinion on using DNA as an evidence. But their are many groups who do not accept it and they justify it from Islam.

When was the last time the people of Pakistan agreed on 1 thing? For heavens sake we cant even have Ramadan or Eid together and you want these very undecisive people to decide laws and fate of people?

We can't agree on Eid and Ramazan because every molvi thinks he has authority. Please read more about the groups in KPK, Karachi, Lahore etc. They just play politics. Only Federal gov should have authority in these matters.

We have NS back on the throne...who learned what? We have people questioning a man who wants to bring in change...people are afraid of change! In any form!

Exactly my point, my friend. We have NS now, NOT Zardari again. System corrected itself to some extent. Future elections will keep purifying our system.

 

[Dubious]

Thank you, but I do know what hudood laws are and how they are being used. You just gave your opinion on using DNA as an evidence. But their are many groups who do not accept it and they justify it from Islam.

I dont agree with those cavemen....

However their ignorance led to 2 things:
1) If witness and confession is all/ only prove they are relying on then according to Hudood laws (the new versions) a lady can say she got raped (without needing witnesses) and if she is proven wrong she cant be punished as stated by

Qazaf Ordinance, Clause no. 3, Exemption no. 2 clearly states that if someone approaches the legal authorities with a rape complaint, she cannot be punished in case she is unable to present 4 witnesses. No court of law can be in its right mind to award such a punishment

So rape victims are fine...sadly even the lawyers cant seem to use this for unknown reasons and judges who make life tough for women should just be prosecuted ...

2) Under the same laws zina (fornication or adultery) which is kind of protected by the same law ...and since only verbal confession is all these cavemen are after, then fornicators and adulterates are free to walk around coz they will not utter it and def wont be doing it in open street to have witnesses!

No matter how much they deny it...they kind of sided with Western laws!

We can't agree on Eid and Ramazan because every molvi thinks he has authority. Please read more about the groups in KPK, Karachi, Lahore etc. They just play politics. Only Federal gov should have authority in these matters.

Hence, unislamic! Nothing happening in Pakistan is in par with Islam....

Exactly my point, my friend. We have NS now, NOT Zardari again. System corrected itself to some extent. Future elections will keep purifying our system.

We have him...but we kind of have him back and he seems to be paving the way for PPP....why doesnt NS just prosecute that blodd sucking corrupt?

 

[RAMPAGE]

Sir,

By religion if you meant Islam---the you have absolutely no clue what you just stated----you just committed " BLSPHEMY ".

What will a secular pakistan look like? | Page 6

 

[Chak Bamu]

Actually, it does not. The opposite infact. If the army had decided that East Pakistan had to be let go, then there was no reason to do things that would damage relations with the people of that part and damage West Pakistan in the process. Your uncle might have held that opinion but I'm afraid that it is not backed by logic.

I was aware of such a view being expressed. All one needs to do is to look at Yahya Khan's total lack of interest in military affairs of East Paksitan. The conduct of GHQ was similar too. One needs to see the requirements vs resources allocated to fight a war. Apart from ignoring sane people like Gen. Yaqub Khan, Yahya Khan thought that he could pressurize Sheikh Mujibur-Rehman, AL, and general Bengali populace with appointing strong-men like Tikka Khan and Gen. Niazi.

The very fact that West Pakistan's bureaucratic and military elites saw East Pakistani Bengalis as somehow inferior shows how they ignored basic teachings of Islam in their decision-making. Had there been any semblance of Equality, Justice, Fraternity, and a bit of Humility & Honesty, East Pakistan debacle would not have happened.

Any reading of history of Paksitan, esp. East Pakistan shows how the British colonial administrative practices were continued with bureaucracy hailing from West Pakistan treating fellow-Muslim Bengalis as their subjects, instead of equals.

On the flip side, Bengalis thought that their language and culture was something more important than common religion, the raison d'etre of Pakistan.

 

[Chak Bamu]

And How dare you insult PA ??? Your uncle was a liar if he told you such a thing .. Or may be you are lying yourself (and you do that quite consistently) ... In any case , the stupid version of history you are peddling here , on the basis "My uncle in ISI told me so and so" is total BS ...... And I don`t expect any better from a chronic hater of PA like yourself ....

Put this flag waving aside for a moment and tell me when have I been hateful of Army?

I could just as easily call you Islam-hater. How would that sound?

My uncle was a valued member of PA. You can go on believing what ever you wish. You can call him or me whatever. All you really prove is your worth. Calling something BS does not make it so.

Suppose I am wrong. How would you explain anomalous attitude of GHQ and Yahya Khan when it came to decision making for East Pakistan? For days on end, Yahya Khan would not communicate regarding East Pakistan. The senior officers kept begging for men and equipment to no avail. They wanted Yahya's input on serious and critical issues, but he did nothing. Absolutely nothing at those critical junctures. How can one explain any of this? There is only one explanation for the lack of interest and lack of equipment - a basic 'giving up' on East Pakistan. I am not the first or last to come to this conclusion. I find is strange that you have never noticed this yourself, seeing that you have such a high opinion of yourself.

An anonymous "Chak Bamu" making stupid claims on the basis of what some unknown person allegedly told him is no "reliable" source. . ... You talk about authenticity ??? The sole reason you don`t "engage" is that you don`t have the ability and knowledge required to carry out academic discussions .... You are good at one thing only .. i.e rhetoric

So which one among these are you: Facebook ? If Chak Bamu is anonymous (and it is) then what is Azlan Haider? How can you prove that you ARE Azlan Haider and not some one else? Picking on a user name needlessly just to score a point is just so like you. You can not bring yourself to come to terms with an argument and you have to abuse the source, abuse the person who brings it up, and make fun of a username. That is just so like you. Tell me, is this not worse than rhetoric that you so despise?

The sole reason I do not engage with you is because of the person that you are. If I get worked up enough, I could spend a couple of days reading to poke holes in your narrative. Should not be difficult at all, since what your put up on the forum is pretty routine liberal stuff that one has read a rejected about a million times. For each of your points, there exists a counter-point from the other side. But why on Earth would I want to waste my time on someone like you, when others have done so well-enough already. There are tons of academics out there who have punctured narratives like yours well enough already. Why should I spend time re-inventing the wheel? You can have the last word. Its not that important. Its not as though the reality would change or anything.

BTW, at least one person among title holders knows my identity. They can reveal it if they so choose. I wouldn't mind.

See ...Mere rhetoric once again ... You weren`t there in 1954 either ... Your stupid rants prove nothing

And your stupid rants do prove something? Just look at your statement about 1954 elections and come back to tell me, if that is not a rant. You use such absolute and authoritative language in putting your point across that it seems as though you are an eye-witness. THAT is why I asked if you were around in 1954. I know you weren't, but at least my Uncle was.... and I have had the benefit of his company and his incisive analyses.

Why did`t you reply then ?? Read it full (not half) and then come back for a discussion

So if I find that you have been misquoting some of its contents, I should not say anything and still read it to the end? I am not a nut like you. I actually have a life. 'Lal batti' type tactics do not work on me.

 

[Jaanbaz]

i request indians to not vote in this poll

They can't resist. Their obsession/love with Pakistanis is sometimes disturbing.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

extract from Nadeem F Paracha' Also Pakistan
the one we lost forever to wahabis

(Legendary jazz saxophonist and trumpeter Dizzy Gillespie, visited Pakistan during his whirlwind tour of Asia and the Middle East in the early 1950s. Here, he is seen playing his sax with a Sindhi snake charmer at a public park in Karachi in 1954.)

(Crowds gather at a runaway at the Karachi Airport to witness a ‘flying parade’ and joint military exercises of American and Pakistani armed forces (1953).)

(The charismatic Jacqueline Kennedy, wife of the popular US President, J. F. Kennedy, visited Pakistan in 1962. Here she is seen riding in an open-top limo with the then ruler of Pakistan, Ayub Khan, in the Saddar area of Karachi jam-packed by young men and women who had gathered on both sides of the road to greet her.)

(
Moonwalkers in Karachi, 1973: How many of you know or remember that the entire crew of NASA’s Apollo 17 flight to the moon visited Pakistan? In July 1973, astronauts of the United State’s last mission to the moon arrived in Karachi.

Their visit was widely covered by the press and Pakistan Television (PTV). The astronauts were also honoured by a ‘welcome motorcade procession’ that travelled from Clifton Road till Tower area.)

Also Pakistan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Also Pakistan-IIAlso Pakistan-III & Also Pakistan-IV
eat my heart out

@VCheng @Hyperion @AgNoStiC MuSliM

 

[VCheng]

eat my heart out
@VCheng @Hyperion @AgNoStiC MuSliM

Those days are long gone and never coming back. This is the present and the future is even more enforced piety:

Islamabad’s only cinema sealed for screening movies at ‘Iftar time’ - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Those days are long gone and never coming back. This is the present and the future is even more enforced piety:

Islamabad’s only cinema sealed for screening movies at ‘Iftar time’ - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

bitter sweet .. your comment made me laugh in a dark way

 

[jaunty]

extract from Nadeem F Paracha' Also Pakistan
the one we lost forever to wahabis

(Legendary jazz saxophonist and trumpeter Dizzy Gillespie, visited Pakistan during his whirlwind tour of Asia and the Middle East in the early 1950s. Here, he is seen playing his sax with a Sindhi snake charmer at a public park in Karachi in 1954.)

(Crowds gather at a runaway at the Karachi Airport to witness a ‘flying parade’ and joint military exercises of American and Pakistani armed forces (1953).)

(The charismatic Jacqueline Kennedy, wife of the popular US President, J. F. Kennedy, visited Pakistan in 1962. Here she is seen riding in an open-top limo with the then ruler of Pakistan, Ayub Khan, in the Saddar area of Karachi jam-packed by young men and women who had gathered on both sides of the road to greet her.)

(
Moonwalkers in Karachi, 1973: How many of you know or remember that the entire crew of NASA’s Apollo 17 flight to the moon visited Pakistan? In July 1973, astronauts of the United State’s last mission to the moon arrived in Karachi.

Their visit was widely covered by the press and Pakistan Television (PTV). The astronauts were also honoured by a ‘welcome motorcade procession’ that travelled from Clifton Road till Tower area.)

Also Pakistan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Also Pakistan-IIAlso Pakistan-III & Also Pakistan-IV
eat my heart out

@VCheng @Hyperion @AgNoStiC MuSliM

Nadeem F Paracha does not have a good image on PDF though. He is too liberal for most people's liking.

 

[VCheng]

Nadeem F Paracha does not have a good image on PDF though. He is too liberal for most people's liking.

PDF is a microcosm of Pakistani society, and therefore subject to the same close-minded "militariness" as pervades the country.

 

[VCheng]

bitter sweet .. your comment made me laugh in a dark way

That comment may have made you laugh, darkly, but this program might make you cry, seeing what Pakistan has become from what it once was:

Murder in God's name - 101 East - Al Jazeera English