What twin engine Jet Fighter Suits PAF Doctrine?

[Defender@@]

W

Twin Engine Jet anyone?


Over the decades PAF has become essentially a single engine Multi role fighter Air force. either through necessity, doctrine or limitation of funds ... PAF has written off the twin engine jets.

there are compelling arguments and counter arguments both for and against the twin vs. single engine jets. while the enthusiasts try to come to terms with or try to understand the PAF doctrine both during war and peace...



a certain news about the potential interest in buying or joining the Chinese J-31 program suggested that PAF was finally going to break its self imposed ban on twin engine jets. on the side lines PAF officials were also known to have evaluated the European twin engine jets like Typhoon and Rafales but such events never went beyond evaluations.
and then there were news about the Su-35 when kept coming up repeatedly.


so lets see if PAFreally has decided to break a fast on twin engine jets then what kind or type of twin engine jet it is likely to go for? it will be most likely a multirole fighter , maybe a missile / bomb truck or a spear head net to the latest PAF F-16s

for the sake of starting a discussion I have listed few jets above.

• J-11 ? why not, specially when we are allowing ourselves to talk about Su-35s. it will be a good missile truck and if Russia approves then it might make its way into PAF.
• SU-35? well there is no harm in dreaming. if the unthinkable happens it will increase PAF potency many folds. and will form the top tier of the PAF fighter jets.
• J-31? maybe likely for the future but most is unknown about it and it might remain on PAF likely shortlist for future.
• F-A 18? again why not? if F-16 block 52 are cleared by USA and PAF, time and again goes to US because it cant get enough of the F-16s then why not another American multirole twin engine jet? if not the latest Super hornet class then maybe the earlier blocks? maybe least likely but no harm in making a guest appearance.

I could have mentioned a likely twin engine J-10 (naval version) but I am not sure if it is even developed or ditched in favour of existing Chinese J-11s or J-16s.

orld has shift to 5th Generataion. We cannot afford buying two platform at the same time. Furthermore, Rafael are of the scene for atleast three years... So best approach is to buy one or two squadorn of F16 block 60 or V and for the new platform go for fifth generations...

It has to be J31 or TFX....

So PAF it like that

Till 2022 ... F16 Air superiority ,,, JF17 is interceptor , bomber, naval defense, reconnaissance missions, Air patrol and CAS ...Mirrages for naval defence till 2020...

After 2022 ... J31, F35 or TFX (whatever the case may be) Air superiority fighters ... whereas F16 might move to interceptor, naval support if we get it integrated with harpoons or any other superrior naval weapons,, whereas JF17 block 3 will be our prime bomber, reconnaissance missions, naval operation, CAS, Patrol Air craft ...
Only possible reason we do buy another Platform is India Field something superior to Mig-29 on its carriers and our F16 do not get naval attack armour ...

 

[Maarkhoor]

Twin Engine Jet anyone?


Over the decades PAF has become essentially a single engine Multi role fighter Air force. either through necessity, doctrine or limitation of funds ... PAF has written off the twin engine jets.

there are compelling arguments and counter arguments both for and against the twin vs. single engine jets. while the enthusiasts try to come to terms with or try to understand the PAF doctrine both during war and peace...



a certain news about the potential interest in buying or joining the Chinese J-31 program suggested that PAF was finally going to break its self imposed ban on twin engine jets. on the side lines PAF officials were also known to have evaluated the European twin engine jets like Typhoon and Rafales but such events never went beyond evaluations.
and then there were news about the Su-35 when kept coming up repeatedly.


so lets see if PAFreally has decided to break a fast on twin engine jets then what kind or type of twin engine jet it is likely to go for? it will be most likely a multirole fighter , maybe a missile / bomb truck or a spear head net to the latest PAF F-16s

for the sake of starting a discussion I have listed few jets above.

• J-11 ? why not, specially when we are allowing ourselves to talk about Su-35s. it will be a good missile truck and if Russia approves then it might make its way into PAF.
• SU-35? well there is no harm in dreaming. if the unthinkable happens it will increase PAF potency many folds. and will form the top tier of the PAF fighter jets.
• J-31? maybe likely for the future but most is unknown about it and it might remain on PAF likely shortlist for future.
• F-A 18? again why not? if F-16 block 52 are cleared by USA and PAF, time and again goes to US because it cant get enough of the F-16s then why not another American multirole twin engine jet? if not the latest Super hornet class then maybe the earlier blocks? maybe least likely but no harm in making a guest appearance.

I could have mentioned a likely twin engine J-10 (naval version) but I am not sure if it is even developed or ditched in favour of existing Chinese J-11s or J-16s.


ok guys get on with it and contribute your ideas.

@MastanKhan @batmannow @Khafee got you a thread now View attachment 283837

1.J-31
2.F-18 Silent eagle
3.SU-35
4-J11

More realistically F-18 would be the best choice.

 

[Lightning Soul]

Hi,

Thank you for your post---. They heavy aircraft must have no strings attached to it---. As it must have long legs---so it must also have buddy refuelling capabilities as well---which it can perform while doing its growler type duties for JF17's and F16's.

The tankers will be taken out very quick---or will have to fly the farthest to refuel---.

SU35 is an excellent aircraft---but with the total weapons package---the price would skyrocket----. So---in my book---the JH7B is the bets buy---.

With the upgraded BLK3 JF17----the JH7B with similar technology---both the aircraft get integrated at a formidable pace---with same weapons and electronics---both will compliment each other very well.

I believe that JH-7B is the most unrestricted and affordable option too. But our Air force have i think changed its strategy after retiring Nanchang A-5 to induct and operate only Multi-role fighter jets no matter they lie in Light, Medium or Heavy Weight Category to save cost and provide best bang for the buck. So that's why i mentioned in my previous post too that we have to identify first for what role we need to require our twin-engine aircrafts. If for dedicated naval attack role than JH-7B. If more for an Air Superiority type of role then Su-35 is the best solution at hand.

 

[MastanKhan]

I believe that JH-7B is the most unrestricted and affordable option too. But our Air force have i think changed its strategy after retiring Nanchang A-5 to induct and operate only Multi-role fighter jets no matter they lie in Light, Medium or Heavy Weight Category to save cost and provide best bang for the buck. So that's why i mentioned in my previous post too that we have to identify first for what role we need to require our twin-engine aircrafts. If for dedicated naval attack role than JH-7B. If more for an Air Superiority type of role then Su-35 is the best solution at hand.

Hi,

The JH7B should be a multi purpose aircraft---a growler type---a buddy refueller---a bomber---a naval deep strike aircraft---a BVR truck---.

The A5 was an extremely poor choice of an aircraft---could barely target 300 miles radius and lesser load carrying capacity than that of the JF17---.

That poor thing could not take off on a single engine.

You are correct---the JH7B is the most un-restricted aircraft---most bang for the buck---30-35 million for a mach 2 strike aircraft that can carry loads of upto 9000kg with aesa---air to air refuelling ability---a formidable electronics package installed for the paf.

 

[Pulsar]

Twin Engine Jet anyone?

Over the decades PAF has become essentially a single engine Multi role fighter Air force. either through necessity, doctrine or limitation of funds ... PAF has written off the twin engine jets.

there are compelling arguments and counter arguments both for and against the twin vs. single engine jets. while the enthusiasts try to come to terms with or try to understand the PAF doctrine both during war and peace...

You rightly mentioned the word 'doctrine', but paid scant regard to it! So what is PAF's doctrine against its adversaries especially India? Only with knowledhe of the doctrine, can you equip the airforce with weapon platforms which comform to that doctrine. So just making a list of single or twin jets is just kite flying.

PAF Doctrine

The PAF has, since inception, espoused a doctrine of fighting outnumbered and, in order to overcome its numerical inferiority against India, made its doctrine one of ‘Offensive Defence’. In Offensive Defence, the PAF is likely to try its utmost to carry the war deep into Indian territory while maintaining its traditional emphasis on Air Defence.

Considering the above, the J-11D would provide deep strike capability, greater range and air combat capabilities to PAF, conforming to PAF's doctrine. This variant with fixed electronically scanned array radar, IRST, will have the capability to fire heavier imaging/infrared (IIR) air-to-air missiles. The airframe makes greater use of composite materials, especially in the engine intakes for lower radar observability. Unconfirmed reports claim it has a fly-by-wire control system, glass cockpit, improved EW systems, and an improved version of the WS-10A engine.

Induction of up to 50 J-11D will complement the JF-17, F-16 MLU and F-16 Block 52 fleet. The deployment of IL-78 Airborne Aerial Refuelling (AAR) platform will enhance range and strike radius of both JF-17 and J-11D aircraft.

Conclusion

The J-11D twin engine fighter is the way to go!

 

[Lightning Soul]

Hi,

The JH7B should be a multi purpose aircraft---a growler type---a buddy refueller---a bomber---a naval deep strike aircraft---a BVR truck---.

The A5 was an extremely poor choice of an aircraft---could barely target 300 miles radius and lesser load carrying capacity than that of the JF17---.

That poor thing could not take off on a single engine.

You are correct---the JH7B is the most un-restricted aircraft---most bang for the buck---30-35 million for a mach 2 strike aircraft that can carry loads of upto 9000kg with aesa---air to air refuelling ability---a formidable electronics package installed for the paf.

Yeah but in order to make that configuration work JH-7B minimum order requirement must be at least 4-6 squadrons. And how procurements go these days for our Air force, the biggest latest (external) procurement for PAF was 18 Block 52s.

 

[Papa Dragon]

You rightly mentioned the word 'doctrine', but paid scant regard to it! So what is PAF's doctrine against its adversaries especially India? Only with knowledhe of the doctrine, can you equip the airforce with weapon platforms which comform to that doctrine. So just making a list of single or twin jets is just kite flying.

PAF Doctrine

The PAF has, since inception, espoused a doctrine of fighting outnumbered and, in order to overcome its numerical inferiority against India, made its doctrine one of ‘Offensive Defence’. In Offensive Defence, the PAF is likely to try its utmost to carry the war deep into Indian territory while maintaining its traditional emphasis on Air Defence.

Considering the above, the J-11D would provide deep strike capability, greater range and air combat capabilities to PAF, conforming to PAF's doctrine. This variant with fixed electronically scanned array radar, IRST, will have the capability to fire heavier imaging/infrared (IIR) air-to-air missiles. The airframe makes greater use of composite materials, especially in the engine intakes for lower radar observability. Unconfirmed reports claim it has a fly-by-wire control system, glass cockpit, improved EW systems, and an improved version of the WS-10A engine.

Induction of up to 50 J-11D will complement the JF-17, F-16 MLU and F-16 Block 52 fleet. The deployment of IL-78 Airborne Aerial Refuelling (AAR) platform will enhance range and strike radius of both JF-17 and J-11D aircraft.

Conclusion

The J-11D twin engine fighter is the way to go!

But J-11 is not allowed for export right!

 

[MastanKhan]

Yeah but in order to make that configuration work JH-7B minimum order requirement must be at least 4-6 squadrons. And how procurements go these days for our Air force, the biggest latest (external) procurement for PAF was 18 Block 52s.

Hi,

To get the Paf's mind working back to strike aircraft / bombers---a smaller number needs to be procured first---20 to begin with and the option for 20 more---and when they see the comparison of the difference in fire power and other capabilities---they will be sold themseleves---.

So---like what Musharraf did with the awacs----the military chief needs to order that at his own discretion and tell the air force that here it is---now go and fly---.

 

[AliWaqar]

sir g F16 he bohat ha hamrey liye Hamrey cheif sahib hain na best sochny k liye wo soch aur done b kar chkay hun gay bus 25 jan ka wait karain indo-french deal done honay dain hamray cards b show ho jayn gay

 

[SirHatesALot]

F-18 is possible but then Pakistan will have to downgrade its relations with China.

 

[Zarvan]

Twin Engine Jet anyone?


Over the decades PAF has become essentially a single engine Multi role fighter Air force. either through necessity, doctrine or limitation of funds ... PAF has written off the twin engine jets.

there are compelling arguments and counter arguments both for and against the twin vs. single engine jets. while the enthusiasts try to come to terms with or try to understand the PAF doctrine both during war and peace...



a certain news about the potential interest in buying or joining the Chinese J-31 program suggested that PAF was finally going to break its self imposed ban on twin engine jets. on the side lines PAF officials were also known to have evaluated the European twin engine jets like Typhoon and Rafales but such events never went beyond evaluations.
and then there were news about the Su-35 when kept coming up repeatedly.


so lets see if PAFreally has decided to break a fast on twin engine jets then what kind or type of twin engine jet it is likely to go for? it will be most likely a multirole fighter , maybe a missile / bomb truck or a spear head net to the latest PAF F-16s

for the sake of starting a discussion I have listed few jets above.

• J-11 ? why not, specially when we are allowing ourselves to talk about Su-35s. it will be a good missile truck and if Russia approves then it might make its way into PAF.
• SU-35? well there is no harm in dreaming. if the unthinkable happens it will increase PAF potency many folds. and will form the top tier of the PAF fighter jets.
• J-31? maybe likely for the future but most is unknown about it and it might remain on PAF likely shortlist for future.
• F-A 18? again why not? if F-16 block 52 are cleared by USA and PAF, time and again goes to US because it cant get enough of the F-16s then why not another American multirole twin engine jet? if not the latest Super hornet class then maybe the earlier blocks? maybe least likely but no harm in making a guest appearance.

I could have mentioned a likely twin engine J-10 (naval version) but I am not sure if it is even developed or ditched in favour of existing Chinese J-11s or J-16s.


ok guys get on with it and contribute your ideas.

@MastanKhan @batmannow @Khafee got you a thread now View attachment 283837

I would prefer J-11 D or upcoming J-16 and than go for J-31. We need a third 4.5th Generation platform before moving to 5th Generation

 

[Manidabest]

SU 35 so it will cement ties with russia & J31 so we get stealth technology and 5th generation aircraft in our fleet....and both are good for PAF and they should look to procure them in future....

 

[somebozo]

Headline says F18...it is actually a deal for F16.

Super Hornet is the best....it knock down every single one leaves the ground


PAKISTAN/PORTUGAL - Pakistan interested in Portuguese F18 fighter jets for sale
Released on 2013-03-11 00:00 GMT

ets for sale


Pakistan interested in Portuguese F18 fighter jets for sale

Excerpt from report by Portuguese newspaper Publico website on 12 July

[Lusa report: "Pakistan Interested in Acquiring Country's F18 Fighter
Jets"]

Portugal is selling 10 F16 fighter jets and Pakistan's Air Force
"requested information" about these aircraft, says the Report on the
Implementation of the 2010 Military Planning Law.

Portugal made "contacts with several international entities that are
potentially interested," and Pakistan's Air Force "showed interest in
visiting" Portugal to assess the F16 fighter jets that are on sale,
according to the report to which Lusa had access.

The document also mentions that Pakistan "had requested information
about the structural configuration and the aircraft upgrades," and so
the Portuguese state sent "the information requested" and suggested
"possible dates for the visit to OGMA (Aeronautics Industry of
Portugal)."

As well as the 10 F16 fighter jets, Portugal is also aiming to sell
eight Puma helicopters and 10 C212 Aviocar planes, "which are about to
be or have already been withdrawn from service," according to the
report.

According to that same report, the rate of financial compliance with the
Military Planning Law (LPM) last year was 88.6 per cent, corresponding
to 288 million euros, according to the implementation report of 2010
that Lusa had access to.

The Navy spent the most, 103 million euros. It was followed by the
Central Support Services (74.1 million euros), the Army (60.4 million),
the Air Force (45.7 million), and the General Staff of the Armed Forces
(4.8 million). [Passage omitted: on compliance with military planning
law, covered by referent item]

Lack of Revenues Stops Modernization of C130

The modernization of six Air Force military transport aircraft has been
on hold for over two years "due to lack of funding," and it is dependent
on the sale of the PUMA helicopters, the report said. The request for
the modernization of the planes, which already suffer flight limitations
in European air space and which is expected to cost 45 million euros at
the most, was presented in April 2009 to then National Defence Minister
Nuno Severiano Teixeira.

The execution of this project "depends on the sale of the PUMA
helicopters" (SA-330 PUMA), which were taken out of service after the
purchase of the new helicopters, currently in service at the Air Force
EH-101.

Source: Publico website, Lisbon, in Portuguese 12 Jul 11

BBC Mon EU1 EuroPol SA1 SAsPol kk

 

[HariPrasad]

India has a very strong air defense. It is very unlikely that Pakistan can penetrate very deep inside India and attack. S 400, LRSAM and Akash shall shoot down anything coming close to India border. On other hand india will try to penetrate into pakistan. Therefore I recommend a plane with very good interception ability. My first choice for PAF is Mig 29/35. They are very affordable too. Su 35 shall really give PAF a true multirole capability. EUROFIGHTER and RAFALE are really good but too expensive.

 

[wiseone2]

India has a very strong air defense. It is very unlikely that Pakistan can penetrate very deep inside India and attack. S 400, LRSAM and Akash shall shoot down anything coming close to India border. On other hand india will try to penetrate into pakistan. Therefore I recommend a plane with very good interception ability. My first choice for PAF is Mig 29/35. They are very affordable too. Su 35 shall really give PAF a true multirole capability. EUROFIGHTER and RAFALE are really good but too expensive.

while Indian air defense is better than Pakistan's it is not strong. Five S-400 batteries are not enough to protect the entire airspace