"What the hell is going on in this country?" : Supreme Court

[justanobserver]

Not with ethnicity. everything else sure

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Ever read report that conclusively said all poeple in India are essentially India thru genetic testing?

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No problems with Arabs I brought it up coz of the posters here who always relate to the Arab invasions and such BS.

Race issues come in where people don't look the same. You can't deny that we have people of all shades of colour

 

[shaktiman2010]

Shakti, the judicial system is more fair in Western Countries my Uncle was CI of Cochin, Kerala. Though its not supposed to happen, illegal stuff does happen from time to time. It is inevitable, but justice prevails when such actions are brought forth and action is taken to correct it.

India doesn't truly suffer from race issues because its population is not as diverse as America. But India does have issues with caste, religion and folks from the North east and as a citizen of the USA, I see first hand how foreigners who come here act. Believe me, it is far from perfect.

I believe you need to take a closer look at justice in Kashmir, Orissa, Bengal. I am not saying steps aren't being taken to ensure justice but there are incidents just like anywhere else. Look at how women are treated in your country. Quite frankly, i would never ever let any female members of my family visit India alone. Ever. Look at the justice melted out to MAoists while some of it may be due to foreign influence, you cannot deny there genuine problems that need to be resolved. I agree taking the violent route is not he answer but when corruption is bad, it may be the only option for a person who has no other option. I can go on and on, but the degree of safety and security in America is unparalell to many countries. My main point to you and others was that corruption is really holding India BIGTIME. YOu cannot argue with that point, al you have to do is look at your neighbor to the north China, sure there is communism and maybe some lack of freedom but they are are still held accountable to the ppl of CHina. The China gov't fears lack of control of the citizens, thus they ensure to make the right decisions and guide the country with a long term vision. India has lots to learn and gain. But my key advice was to really get up and protest, make your voices heard. Its a problem that the US is suffering from. Our politicians aren't listening to the public, so we have all gone out to the streets to protest and demand to let our voices be heard.

As for your argument on Muslims prefer staying in India is simple, india politics play into religious sentiments and it is not helping India. India accommodates all religions but sometimes a lest at the federal level, state level politics, education, and healthcare these are areas that should be free from religion. Religion and its practices should be practiced at home or at places of worship. This constant battle for accommodation is not food for India. The age of consent and the age to go to school are two examples where religion plays a role. It should;t, only the rule of the land should dictate that and no other authority has that right.

Another point many folks who come to the West would anther live in India is true because you wouldn;t get away with a fraction of the "crimes" you commit here as you would in India. I used to think justice is bad in America but its a lot worse in india. But one common thing justice shares in both countries is that money determines how innocent you are and it also influences your sentencing.

LOL.

I can see what propaganda has done to you. Most NRI's(specially those who haven't spend much time in India) speak and think like that.

India is far far different than you can imagine.

Also, that's one of the reason why most Indians don't like NRI's. Because they are too naive and gullible(in the sense they rely on western media to make their image of India, not to say as if Indian media projects any better ground image).

First, they know nothing about real grassroot situation in India and second, they lecture Indians as if they know everything with arrogance, which only further reduces their credibility.

 

[misterme2]

Funny let me explain to how when I actually visited Bangalore and studied and lived there for 3 years I met a lot of people from all over India . Trust me, they thought the same Americans are so dumb and there are dumb Americans who cant tell them apart. But when you look at the news what is the difference between a sikh who wears a Turban and an Afghan who wears a Turban is it the beard or the mustache? Is it the way they smell? Do you see my point? Iraq and Afghanistan well listen here bud, India could've came along and help the situation but it didn't Sure half the public knows Bush is greedy corrupt bastard but that is democracy. People suffered but not so much in our hands as much as they did in under Saddam, under Sunni and Shite militias. Those militias committed some of the most brutal acts I have ever seen. Who ever said War is clean cut. War has causalities and he innocent civilians die. Don;t kid yourself. As for the folks I met in bangalore, some were brilliant and some were so dub its not funny but sad. At least America provides meals and an education, india cant even do that for half its population. And that is what angers me tremendously. The future is India's youth with out helping them it only compounds he problems. These uneducated will commit crimes or pick up the gun. Do you get it? When Sibal came out with the Handheld computer, it should have been pushed thru so that India could change the world. Wanna know why, coz the higher powers don't watt that. India is perfect for those who got it good. If you educate everyone who will do all manual labor? Who? The births used to educate some kiss till 4th grade then stopped there. Those educated adult 4th graders would manage an entire plantation. This mentality has not changed. Instead, it has continued and it is all about control, power, and money. Thanks to the British they left us with a legacy and a battle that continues to this day. For those of you who say the Brits did great things, please smack yourself. The trains/railroads, postal office, teaching English to some kids, roads, etc for the benefit an complete benefit of the British only. Maybe India should've remained part of tier empire. What do you think? Because if you don;t agree with that then prove to them India is capable, otherwise the Brits and the rest of the world will always have the least laugh.

You proved my point you get all offensive because I criticize India. but whatever I criticize is for India's good. I bring the issue out so that we can all help solve it. So that this issue doesn;t get swept on the carpet.

 

[shaktiman2010]

misterme2,

Come to India and live near Char-minar or Jama Masjid. You will get nice education of what "multi-ethnic" society is.

India is far far better than rotten cities of USA where anyone wearing turban or having a beard is seen with contempt and hate. India is a beautiful place and I love my India.

Tell me one thing, how many rich businessmen or traders or even common white people in USA, goto Masjid with their muslim friends? Well, in India I have seen almost every friend goes. And some even go inside hand-in-hand with muslim friend.

Everytime your president obama talks about human values, I laugh as if I heard a joke. lol

 

[justanobserver]

@shaktiman cool down man. misterme2 means well.

 

[shaktiman2010]

As for the folks I met in bangalore, some were brilliant and some were so dub its not funny but sad. At least America provides meals and an education, india cant even do that for half its population. And that is what angers me tremendously. The future is India's youth with out helping them it only compounds he problems.

I never expected my India to feed me. If Indian govt. doesn't put food in my mouth, I have no complaints. This country has given me shelter and everything I am today is because of India. Offer me any amount of money, I will work for India and not USA.

Good luck with your new country.

 

[shaktiman2010]

You proved my point you get all offensive because I criticize India. but whatever I criticize is for India's good. I bring the issue out so that we can all help solve it. So that this issue doesn;t get swept on the carpet.

That's what all NRI's do. Sit and eat in USA and lecture Indians on how corrupt they are, how incompetent your leaders are and blah blah.

If you care so much about India, then first come here and then talk. We would love to listen and learn from your american experience. Otherwise, its useless to just lecture.

 

[misterme2]

Not at all, I visit India every year and stay 2-3 months. I can assure India has taught me a lot. I am lot better person now than I was before growing up as a youth over there. it really opened my eyes and made me greatful for everything I have. You can anyway you wish but I am trying to help India and Indians. Believe I have those arrogant NRIs who think having a green card or being abroad makes them all high and mighty. I am nothing like that. I can rub shoulders with the poorest of the poor and the rich. I have no problems eating with my hand on a dirt floor or on a table with a fork. I can bath from a well. I have lived in India long enough to relate to the grass root situation and the reality it is changing but it is not taking all the factors in to consideration. Every 5 years India is unrecognizable. But this rapid change is not taking account all the problems suffered in the West. For example, plastic bags are a hazard to the environment and ppl in America are turning to non Disposable bags like jute. In India the opposite is happening, and they are destroying an industry that employs folks. They don;t see the environmental damage done by these actions. The rush to modernize is happening at the expense of the people. There are many more examples. I have a family priest who asked my father to purchase land so that could sell it to the Church and make a profit. Unreal right. Corruption is everywhere and unless we do something about, india will be doomed. I had friends who thought like you but once they went abroad, their perception totally changed. The majority of folks lack exposure to ideas. What makes you think I get my news from Western media only. I have a variety of sources at my fingertips for free.
The first friends I made In India wer Muslims and they were from kerala and the Northeast. I learned so ouch from them. They were very rich which showed to me first hand that Muslims can make a damn good living. If I had it my way, i would settle in India for good. But there are problems and I am merely trying to point it out. Its call constructive criticism, where there is a problem there is an opportunity. If some one who loves india can help and try to give some advice, then India is hopeless. It will take longer for progress. Just like there are Chinese Americans who want China to be No.1 there are Indians who wish the same. But there are problems that need to be addressed. Instead of absorbing what I am saying you are acting like those Indian fools I have encountered, headstrong, patriotic but can't take any criticism. Open your eyes the problems are in front of you. But you choose to turn a blind eye. Let me ask you what have you done to stop corruption. I have donated to the 5th Pillar in Chennai. Step up and put your money where your mouth is!



Let me ask you something if I come to India next year....you make it a point to meet me and we will find out some ways to help India together. This is open invitation not just for you but to anyone else on this forum who interested. The further you live, the better coz then you can take those ideas and implement any change quickly. Come on....I trying to make some attempt. Lets see what can you guys do.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

@shaktiman2010
How about you chill out?

 

[Spitfighter]

You made your point. Fair enough. So, let me correct you in few areas.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how you could have reached any of your conclusions.

If you are talking about Indian public or system and comparing them to western(british, american) systems, then I would say Indian system is far better than those. Indians might be corrupt but we never send Muslims to jail based on religion(under silly national security laws, racial profiling) for torture, like american courts do.

That's utter nonsense. American courts have NEVER sentenced anyone without indisputable evidence. They've even gone so far as to appoint lawyers to Guantanamo inmates. India on the other hand has used POTA and AFSPA to arrest and trash minorities in places like Kashmir and the NE.

Over a hundred people were shot dead just last summer, so what are you talking about?

American human rights record and race crimes in USA after 9/11 are well known. Not to mention Britain, its even worse. Though, I am not sure about Arabs. They have different system for judicial processes so I won't comment on them.

I really doubt it. What incidents are you referring to specifically? How many communal riots have taken place in the states over the last decade?

The bottomline is, if I am a muslim then I would feel more safe to be in India than in USA, even after Gujarat riots of 2003. Because there is atleast hope of justice. Its not like USA where whole system is botched up with racist incidents. 9/11 is a silly excuse to justify "terror for terror" as answer.

Once again, I don't see how. Cases linger on for decades. I've read stories where judgments were passed after the defendants had already died.

I would never know when some d*ckheaded american custom officer will take me into detention because I have urdu tattoo or big beard or my name is synonymous to some terrorist leader. Heck, I will prefer China to USA.

Have you ever been to the states? They can't just arrest people and throw them in jail here.

I would say, American public lack simple maturity to differentiate between a normal Muslim and a terrorist. They are behaving like racist fools since 9/11. Its been 10 years now since 9/11, so how many more years Americans in their so-called democratic system will continue to treat Muslims like Dogs?

After all the terrorist attacks you think custom officials in India simply smile and wave at Pakistanis?

Far, far, far too many generalizations.

 

[Spitfighter]

That's what all NRI's do. Sit and eat in USA and lecture Indians on how corrupt they are, how incompetent your leaders are and blah blah.

If you care so much about India, then first come here and then talk. We would love to listen and learn from your american experience. Otherwise, its useless to just lecture.

Stop being so defensive. There's no need to throw tantrums buddy, no one's lecturing you. People have their opinions, if you think there's no truth to what they say then simply ignore them.

 

[justanobserver]

I'm sorry, but I don't see how you could have reached any of your conclusions.



That's utter nonsense. American courts have NEVER sentenced anyone without indisputable evidence. They've even gone so far as to appoint lawyers to Guantanamo inmates. India on the other hand has used POTA and AFSPA to arrest and trash minorities in places like Kashmir and the NE.

Over a hundred people were shot dead just last summer, so what are you talking about?



I really doubt it. What incidents are you referring to specifically? How many communal riots have taken place in the states over the last decade?


Once again, I don't see how. Cases linger on for decades. I've read stories where judgments were passed after the defendants had already died.



Have you ever been to the states? They can't just arrest people and throw them in jail here.



After all the terrorist attacks you think custom officials in India simply smile and wave at Pakistanis?

Far, far, far too many generalizations

This is exactly the kind of arrogance shaktiman is talking about

 

[Spitfighter]

This is exactly the kind of arrogance shaktiman is talking about

What arrogance? You expect me to apologize for all that's wrong with India?

Just because I'm critical doesn't mean I'm being arrogant. I'm sorry if Shaktiman is insecure. I don't need him to tell me where my loyalties lie.

 

[misterme2]

Where is the arrogance spit? Come on, he is telling the truth. We all know such action has to be taken when terrorist are involved. No body is defending it but the double standard is not going anywhere.

 

[misterme2]

You see an AMerican flag, but you fail to see Im as Indian as the paddy fields, the coconuts, the kappa and meen curry! YOu forget the NRIs in the West have made Desi culture popular.