What The Atlantic Gets Dangerously Wrong About ISIS And Islam

[he-man]

The market reacts like this because there is one of these everyday and almost all of them are by you. Here's what's really going on. Maybe this will help you get your obsession of posting these thread daily.

WE DON'T LIKE YOU. And no, I don't mean we're gonna run over you with our cars if we see on a side walk but rather we don't like you as a community. Our image of you is very different from your self-image. We see a backward community that obsesses over things we've gotten over a century ago. We like to make jokes about religion. You kill over those jokes. We think cartoons are funny. You think it's a matter of life and death. People like you are actually what I fear more than the terrorists themselves. The terrorists, we can handle. You, on the other hand, are poisoning the proverbial well from within. You're more concerned about the image of your religion than what's actually happening. That's really our worst suspicion and fear. We think, given a choice between our necks and your religion, you're gonna choose your religion. Now that might be good thing from your perspective, but for us, its a pretty big problem.

Last month, 3 kids were shot in Chapel Hill by an atheist. Atheists didn't jump in and post expert opinions on atheism to prove that it had nothing to do with the shootings. Nobody said a "real" atheist would never do that. Or that he did it because atheists are being persecuted in Pakistan. In fact, the prosecutor is asking for the death penalty. Now go compare that any of the shootings by Islamists. There are a lot of "They shouldn't have done that but....". That "But" is what separates us from you.

Finally, you need it realize that this isn't about Islam but rather about Muslims. People didn't look up websites about Islam and then come to the conclusion that Islam preaches violence. But rather they saw the real world actions of real world Muslims and then decided to see what the fuss was about. So posting expert opinions is not going to help unless you find a way to modify Muslims' behavior in the real world. You should concentrate on that rather than trying to shove your daily dose of religion down our throats.

dayyum dawg

 

[DrawingDead]

dayyum dawg

Too harsh?

 

[he-man]

Too harsh?

Well, yeah

 

[Dubious]

The market reacts like this because there is one of these everyday and almost all of them are by you. Here's what's really going on. Maybe this will help you get your obsession of posting these thread daily.

So me making threads is effecting so people who dont even know what PDF is? WOW logic died there!

WE DON'T LIKE YOU. And no, I don't mean we're gonna run you over with our cars if we see on a side walk but rather we don't like you as a community. Our image of you is very different from your self-image. We see a backward community that obsesses over things we've gotten over a century ago. We like to make jokes about religion..

Talk about racist! I dont think you even represent 0.5% of America so give yourself a break!

You kill over those jokes. We think cartoons are funny. You think it's a matter of life and death. People like you are actually what I fear more than the terrorists themselves. The terrorists, we can handle. You, on the other hand, are poisoning the proverbial well from within. You're more concerned about the image of your religion than what's actually happening. That's really our worst suspicion and fear. We think, given a choice between our necks and your religion, you're gonna choose your religion. Now that might be good thing from your perspective, but for us, its a pretty big problem.

1stly, thank you for admitting your phobia

2dnly, How is me posting an article answering (by experts) one that plays your views (written by a non expert) poisoning anyone? So educating one is poisoning him? Lovely! Now I really know you dont even represent 0.5% of Americans..

3rdly, regarding this image issue...It caused 3 kids to be killed recently in America (chapel hill) so yes imagine is causing people who take it literally to go around killing...

Last month, 3 kids were shot in Chapel Hill by an atheist. Atheists didn't jump in and post expert opinions on atheism to prove that it had nothing to do with the shootings. Nobody said a "real" atheist would never do that. Or that he did it because atheists are being persecuted in Pakistan. In fact, the prosecutor is asking for the death penalty. Now go compare that any of the shootings by Islamists. There are a lot of "They shouldn't have done that but....". That "But" is what separates us from you.

Before throwing such comparisons please answer this question:

Was even 1 article published that accused Atheist or atheism? Was there a frenzy regarding atheism? You yourself admitted the guy was asked to own up his responsibility not his believes...So why the double standard for Muslims?

The day someone blames a practice when a Christian, Hindu or atheist goes killing would be the day you can bring such a sorry example in!
Until then try to atleast sound logical!

The but comes in when you accuse a religion (as the above experts have stated) over a human being ....Why cant you blame the human being for what he did when it comes to ISLAM? the very fact that the majority of us are not blowing ourselves is proof enough for any person who is true to himself!

Finally, you need it realize that this isn't about Islam but rather about Muslims.

You need to realize that Islamic terrorist and bring up BS (to which this article is answering) is what this thread is about...Go take your sore anger someplace else!

People didn't look up websites about Islam and then come to the conclusion that Islam preaches violence.

I wish they had...at least they wouldnt be behaving as ignorantly as you are today!

But rather they saw the real world actions of real world Muslims and then decided to see what the fuss was about.

In the real world MAJORITY of Muslims are not doing the said actions so the fuss is about labeling the majority based on the actions of minorities and when the majority speaks up they are questioned HOW DARE they speak up and try to speak the truth?!

So posting expert opinions is not going to help unless you find a way to modify Muslims' behavior in the real world

You rather listen to non experts telling you this and that than an expert clarifying what the non expert said is wrong?

Please do spit your anger at someone else!

. You should concentrate on that rather than trying to shove your daily dose of religion down our throats.

I am not shoving anything down your throat you chose to come to this thread I didnt force you

2ndly, the daily doses of false conclusions from other media sources (esp the one this one is answering to) is the thing being shoved down your throat!

 

[DrawingDead]

Talk about racist! I dont think you even represent 0.5% of America so give yourself a break!

Nothing racist about it. More than half of American don't have a favorable view of Islam.

1stly, thank you for admitting your phobia

Not liking you is not the same as disliking you. There are a million shades of gray between like and dislike. Plus, a phobia implies an irrational fear. I don't think after WTC-1, 9/11, embassy bombings, USS Cole, the shoe bomber, Times Square bomber etc, that the fear is irrational.

2dnly, How is me posting an article answering (by experts) one that plays your views (written by a non expert) poisoning anyone? So educating one is poisoning him? Lovely! Now I really know you dont even represent 0.5% of Americans..

3rdly, regarding this image issue...It caused 3 kids to be killed recently in America (chapel hill) so yes imagine is causing people who take it literally to go around killing...

I think if you'd actually read my original post and tried to understand it rather than immediately working on a response, you'd realize that these are not going to do anything to change our minds. We don't have a problem with Islam. We have a problem with Muslims. People started looking up this stuff and quoting random passages AFTER they experienced Islamic terrorism. Trust me, people didn't spend the 90s looking up this stuff. People were busy trying to find free **** on the web.

On your 2nd point, I'm not talking about the here and now. I'm more worried about the future generations that will be raised under your brand of Islam or bust ideology.

On your 3rd point, there is no evidence that he killed them because they were Muslim. The federal govt is also looking at the case from that angle. So far, nobody has been able show anything other than an angry loser who harassed his neighbors over every little thing.

Before throwing such comparisons please answer this question:

Was even 1 article published that accused Atheist or atheism? Was there a frenzy regarding atheism? You yourself admitted the guy was asked to own up his responsibility not his believes...So why the double standard for Muslims?

The day someone blames a practice when a Christian, Hindu or atheist goes killing would be the day you can bring such a sorry example in!
Until then try to atleast sound logical!

The but comes in when you accuse a religion (as the above experts have stated) over a human being ....Why cant you blame the human being for what he did when it comes to ISLAM? the very fact that the majority of us are not blowing ourselves is proof enough for any person who is true to himself!

Google "Atheist Kills Muslims". See how sites published the fact that the guy was an atheist. There was plenty of frenzy from right-wing sites. The difference is, atheists didn't freak out. Like I said, we didn't defend him, didn't make an excuse for him, nothing.
Now go look through the Charlie Hebdo killings posts. See how many people were of the view that Hebdo should have known better than publish a caricature of Mohammed.

Do you know roughly 17% of the US prison population is Muslims? Do you know we don't care that they're Muslims? The reason we don't care is that they are there for gang violence, assaults, drugs, murders etc. Crimes that have nothing to do with their religion. So we don't care about their religious bent. We only bring it up when a guy kills because of his religious beliefs. I mean, if a guy yells God is great in Arabic while shooting us, we might tempted to think there's a religious angle to it.

The "but" comes in because you choose to bring it in. You could just condemn it and move on. Or you could just not say anything. But you don't. Someone on PDF, typically a couple of guys from Pakistan and Bangladesh each, jumps in to say that the victims should have known better, and in doing so, connects not only themselves but the entire community, to murders. So if you feel aggrieved, you should take it up with them, not us.

You need to realize that Islamic terrorist and bring up BS (to which this article is answering) is what this thread is about...Go take your sore anger someplace else!

That's the thing. You keep posting these threads about what the religion says. The problem is not your religion but its practitioners. We're non-Muslims. Why are you trying to convince us? Work on your coreligionists. They're the ones embarrassing you, not us.

I wish they had...at least they wouldnt be behaving as ignorantly as you are today!

Don't pout. It's not an effective tool when the other person can't see you.

In the real world MAJORITY of Muslims are not doing the said actions so the fuss is about labeling the majority based on the actions of minorities and when the majority speaks up they are questioned HOW DARE they speak up and try to speak the truth?!

No, the majority is not doing anything wrong. We all know it. If we thought otherwise, you wouldn't be here to argue with me. However, what you need to ask yourself is why is the percentage of the people committing such acts higher in this religion today than others. What are you teaching them or what are you allowing to be taught that results in this.

You rather listen to non experts telling you this and that than an expert clarifying what the non expert said is wrong?

Please do spit your anger at someone else!

Again, I don't care what those experts have to say. I'm a non-Muslim. You're trying to convince us that Quran is fine. Fair enough. My stance is, people aren't dying of paper cuts from the Quran. Muslims are killing them. Forgot about the book and work on the people. Stop trying to convince us and start working on modifying their behavior.

 

[Dubious]

Nothing racist about it. More than half of American don't have a favorable view of Islam.

.

Yup 2009 when your country was promoting for war in the Iraq and Afghanistan! good choice!

Not liking you is not the same as disliking you. There are a million shades of gray between like and dislike. Plus, a phobia implies an irrational fear. I don't think after WTC-1, 9/11, embassy bombings, USS Cole, the shoe bomber, Times Square bomber etc, that the fear is irrational.

No, likewise why the Africans and MOST of middle east hates the West and hold it responsible for their misery!

THAT too is justified!

Will read and reply next time...

 

[DrawingDead]

Yup 2009 when your country was promoting for war in the Iraq and Afghanistan! good choice!

I don't know how old you are but the war in Iraq started in 2003 and the one in Afghanistan started in 2001.

No, likewise why the Africans and MOST of middle east hates the West and hold it responsible for their misery!

THAT too is justified!

The difference is, we're not constantly whining about the injustice of it all.

 

[gambit]

The market reacts like this because there is one of these everyday and almost all of them are by you. Here's what's really going on. Maybe this will help you get your obsession of posting these thread daily.

WE DON'T LIKE YOU. And no, I don't mean we're gonna run you over with our cars if we see on a side walk but rather we don't like you as a community. Our image of you is very different from your self-image. We see a backward community that obsesses over things we've gotten over a century ago. We like to make jokes about religion. You kill over those jokes. We think cartoons are funny. You think it's a matter of life and death. People like you are actually what I fear more than the terrorists themselves. The terrorists, we can handle. You, on the other hand, are poisoning the proverbial well from within. You're more concerned about the image of your religion than what's actually happening. That's really our worst suspicion and fear. We think, given a choice between our necks and your religion, you're gonna choose your religion. Now that might be good thing from your perspective, but for us, its a pretty big problem.

Last month, 3 kids were shot in Chapel Hill by an atheist. Atheists didn't jump in and post expert opinions on atheism to prove that it had nothing to do with the shootings. Nobody said a "real" atheist would never do that. Or that he did it because atheists are being persecuted in Pakistan. In fact, the prosecutor is asking for the death penalty. Now go compare that any of the shootings by Islamists. There are a lot of "They shouldn't have done that but....". That "But" is what separates us from you.

Finally, you need it realize that this isn't about Islam but rather about Muslims. People didn't look up websites about Islam and then come to the conclusion that Islam preaches violence. But rather they saw the real world actions of real world Muslims and then decided to see what the fuss was about. So posting expert opinions is not going to help unless you find a way to modify Muslims' behavior in the real world. You should concentrate on that rather than trying to shove your daily dose of religion down our throats.

Very good, sir.

See how many people were of the view that Hebdo should have known better than publish a caricature of Mohammed.

Someone on PDF, typically a couple of guys from Pakistan and Bangladesh each, jumps in to say that the victims should have known better,...

Stop trying to convince us and start working on modifying their behavior.

What the Muslims do not understand is that the moment the victims are introduced, some and there are enough of these some, will begin to move away from modifying their behaviors and towards what the victims should have done and the rest of the non-Muslims must do from now on if we want to avoid being the recipients of those destructive behaviors. Essentially, they want to preserve the threat of violence over the non-Muslims as a matter of policy in dealing with the non-Muslims.

 

[Dubious]

I don't know how old you are but the war in Iraq started in 2003 and the one in Afghanistan started in 2001.

And it was in 2009 when America started doubting it with polls from people all over (Americans make America) started saying it was wrong!

The difference is, we're not constantly whining about the injustice of it all.

What injustice? When was Christianity, Hinduism or aethism taken to court or smeared (like Islam is repeatedly) for the faults of the followers? When were to wrong doers called the RIGHTFUL followers?

Just tell me one such incident which can be described as "injustice"

Very good, sir.

Oh yes of course no thread for Islam bashing is complete without your presence!

What the Muslims do not understand is that the moment the victims are introduced, some and there are enough of these some, will begin to move away from modifying their behaviors and towards what the victims should have done and the rest of the non-Muslims must do from now on if we want to avoid being the recipients of those destructive behaviors.

Well if you bothered reading this article you would realize this is not addressing that phenomena and another one!

Which you fail to address

Essentially, they want to preserve the threat of violence over the non-Muslims as a matter of policy in dealing with the non-Muslims.

And then someone was saying no one is whining?!

, we're not constantly whining about the injustice of it all.

Every article is a whine that all billions of Muslims across the world think like you want to portray them....

Sorry I dont answer much to hate mongers!

 

[Anubis]

I am free from this as i don't follow any religion.

I hate all religious fanatics whether they are hindu,sikh,buddhist,islamic etc.
Problem is right now islamic nutjobs are too big a number compared to other religious nutjobs combined.This cannot be denied.

My only question is why??

Because it is a global religion...has followers in many nationalities....which means you get to control a lot of people in a lot of places if you control this religion.....The only other global religion,Christianity,has gone through this....if another global religion emerges in the future...that will also go through the same thing...besides religion inherently is a system of control...and you need brute force to maintain control...it depends on who uses it how!

 

[DrawingDead]

And it was in 2009 when America started doubting it with polls from people all over (Americans make America) started saying it was wrong!

I have one from 2014. It show a 27% favorable rating. Would it matter though? You've already decided that I'm a racist so I'm not sure its going to change your mind.

What injustice? When was Christianity, Hinduism or aethism taken to court or smeared (like Islam is repeatedly) for the faults of the followers? When were to wrong doers called the RIGHTFUL followers?

This was a response to your contention that other countries should feel the same way about the US as we feel about Muslims. But since you've chosen to bring up other religions, rest assured when Buddhist monks starts to blow up our buildings or attack our embassies, I will definitely take the Dalai Lama to task.

Just tell me one such incident which can be described as "injustice"

That's for the people who are affected to decide.

Every article is a whine that all billions of Muslims across the world think like you want to portray them....

Sorry I dont answer much to hate mongers!

I sometimes wonder if you reply just for the sake of getting the last word in. The statement was, we don't whine about people disliking us. It had nothing to do with complaining (legitimately, I might add) that you're attacking us for religious reasons.

 

[pak-marine]

Muslims are against ISIS or Talibans Alqaeeda and all other extremists as they are scared of impementing Islamic teachings upon themselves and they are finding it very hard to accept the truth .. ! and this is not ok as the stupid illetrate molvi keeps on black mailing them about not issuing the certificate for an unknown , unseen world ..

 

[Dubious]

I have one from 2014. It show a 27% favorable rating. Would it matter though? You've already decided that I'm a racist so I'm not sure its going to change your mind.

That really isnt my business....

I called you racist based on your choice of words not what you presented!

This was a response to your contention that other countries should feel the same way about the US as we feel about Muslims.

I didnt say they should, I said according to your thinking that should happen then?

But since you've chosen to bring up other religions, rest assured when Buddhist monks starts to blow up our buildings or attack our embassies, I will definitely take the Dalai Lama to task.

That is sad, why should he be questioned about things individuals do? They should learn to be responsible of their actions like grown men!

That's for the people who are affected to decide.

But you are pre deciding for Muslims?

The statement was, we don't whine about people disliking us. It had nothing to do with complaining (legitimately, I might add) that you're attacking us for religious reasons.

You dont whine but it is brought up every now and then so that is part and process of the whine!

2ndly, no one is attacking you for religious reasons...Many people (Muslims) dont even want to associate those nasty people with themselves so I am not sure why paint us with the same brush?

 

[rubyjackass]

I never keep hope in people....people are people and not reliable...But I found this article really awesome it covers everything I an everyday person can summarize but it is sad when the media has to bring "experts" to prove common sense...And it is further saddening when people take Anjem Ch. who isnt a certified preacher nor a scholar as an expert and give him more time as compared to these people who actually have degrees in the field!

But look at the other side. People will degrees in your religion as much as common muslims overwhelmingly support/agree with(with classic examples in braces):
1) Polygamy as a right of muslim men(Indian Deoband)
2) No alimony for muslim divorced women
3) Death for apostasy(More popular with Pakistanis and Arabs)
4) Death for Ahmedis calling themselves Muslims(Pakistan, just look among PDF members. Ask what should be done with Ahmedis who keep insisting that they be called muslims)
5) Stoning/death for blasphemy(Again just look among PDF members. There was so much support pouring in for Charlie Hebdo killers, albeit in a nice way, basically asking 'well, whose fault was it?')
6) Ganging up to protect muslims from others, even if in a different country(Ummah in nice words)
7) Not wearing a burqa is a sign of promiscuity(A woman journalist was raped during the Arab spring. I am surprised when even an educated well-to-do muslim man complained that she was not wearing a burqa or it would have never happened)

These are things which an apolitical muslim, lets call him x, does not have problem with. 4), 5) and 6) are things that x would even vocally support as a religious duty.

Now tell me does the west need Anjem Chaudhary to be wary of the spread of Islam? Btw all the above things I mentioned have nothing to do with hurting God(except 5) which is the central concept of any religion. So please give us a break because we are not interested in the views of moderate Islam, we are just interested in the views of median Islam.

 

[Dubious]

Since you quoted me...I hope you have the patience to read the reply:

1) Polygamy as a right of muslim men(Indian Deoband)

ok to this I ask, is it ok for a man to cheat behind his wife with 1 or more mistress but god forbid he makes the woman his LEGAL 2nd wife who has rights over him? I think any woman would want a legal status than be a dirty laundry!
- Honestly ask yourself, which is better?

Then polygamy comes with a warning...The verse is exactly as it is below:

And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.. Chapter 4 verse 3

So there is a big condition and then an order if you cant fulfill the condition then marry only one!

No alimony for muslim divorced women

Says who? In fact there is...for both the wife and children until she is either married or able to support herself even then I think a minimum is asked...but the guy cant stop on the children!

Death for apostasy(More popular with Pakistanis and Arabs)

I have answered this to 2 of your countrymen but I will answer to you again...Explain to me HOW the following verse can be practiced:

Verily, those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe (again), and (again) disbelieve, and go on increasing in disbelief; Allah will not forgive them, nor guide them on the (Right) Way. Chapter 4 verse 137

How can one disbelieve and then believe and then again disbelieve when according to you they should be killed after the 1st disbelief so they shouldnt have any life in them to again believe and then disbelief, right?

Lets see : who believe, then disbelieve, (dead/ killed/ chopped the head) but then how do they fulfill this part: then believe (again), and (again) disbelieve, and go on increasing in disbelief?

Stoning/death for blasphemy(Again just look among PDF members. There was so much support pouring in for Charlie Hebdo killers, albeit in a nice way, basically asking 'well, whose fault was it?')

I already explained :
How can one disbelieve and then believe and then again disbelieve when according to you they should be killed after the 1st disbelief so they shouldnt have any life in them to again believe and then disbelief, right?

Lets see : who believe, then disbelieve, (dead/ killed/ chopped the head) but then how do they fulfill this part: then believe (again), and (again) disbelieve, and go on increasing in disbelief?


How will the person whose head is gone come back to belief if ever? Blasphemy laws the word itself was coined by Christianity and it has been blindly used since then! Nobody can even prove it from the Quran so it 1 of them things we call Jahil people!

Ganging up to protect muslims from others, even if in a different country(Ummah in nice words)

I dont get this one at all! What?

Not wearing a burqa is a sign of promiscuity

Get 1 thing right....Burqa is a cultural thing for Iran area, what the people
Watch this video it answers simple questions....if you cant wait watch the last 15 mins its Q and A section

These are things which an apolitical muslim, lets call him x, does not have problem with. 4), 5) and 6) are things that x would even vocally support as a religious duty.

We only have 3 religious duties (outside the normal 5 pillars of practice) which is to "invite" others to our way...Not force, not bash not argue...Discuss and walk away!
Strive to be the best
Live our lives as good examples (again strive to be the best = jihad)

5 pillars make us a Muslim but the duty outside these pillars is to invite nothing else...

Now tell me does the west need Anjem Chaudhary to be wary of the spread of Islam?

I asked this on my other thread...Why when experts condemn these behaviours and explain the truth people scream out in pain that OMG a logical reasoning is fighting my bashing Islam ability! But when Anjem Ch who mind you doesnt even have any formal certificate in preaching nor in Islam....he is self proclaimed to be certified and is alwasy invited to tv shows and people nod to him but experts (like those in OP) are bashed for not speaking the norm and not behaving like Islam bashing norm?

we are not interested in the views of moderate Islam, we are just interested in the views of median Islam.

NO, what I have seen on this thread is you people are not interested in Islam but in anyone who bashes it! Because that is the "in" thing right?

Give me a break and dont quote me because I suddenly see that you people are just ignorantly interested in nodding in front of a tv be it right or wrong as long as you dont have to use the mind to think!