What so ever happened to the Sam Browne Belt in the Pakistan Army

[GHOST RIDER]

A short history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Browne_belt

I'll get straight to the point, why is that we don't see officers wearing sam browne belts on their service dress and ceremonial uniforms nowdays in the army.The British Army officers still wear sam browne belts relative to their regiments/fighting arms.

Service Dress with Sam Browne belts

Ayub Khan wearing Sam Browne on his service dress

https://www.flickr.com/photos/syedalihamid/7027341131

Another observation,
Officers fold sleeves of there khaki shirts

 

[GHOST RIDER]

Sam Browne belt on ceremonial uniform

General Tikka wearing sam browne on ceremonial uniform with service ribbon (not medals)

 

[GHOST RIDER]

Raheel Sharif as Adjutant PMA wearing Sam Browne belt

 

[war&peace]

Sam browne's belt is a legacy of the past - the British colonial rule and it is better if PA losses it totally.

 

[GHOST RIDER]

Another brilliant point raised by another member in this thread
https://defence.pk/threads/pak-army-uniforms.419611/
Bush Jackets should be tucked in

General Tariq Majeed wearing a belt on his bush jacket

as compared to General Raheel sharrif not wearing a sam browne belt on his ceremonial uniform and a belt on his bush jacket

 

[third eye]

Ayub Khan wearing Sam Browne on his service dress

https://www.flickr.com/photos/syedalihamid/7027341131



Another observation,
Officers fold sleeves of there khaki shirts

The uniform worn by Ayub is not a Service Dress. Its a summer uniform with a Sam Browne . SD is a formal winter wear as shown in Post No 2.

I didnt know that PA too has stopped using the Sam Browne Belt. In India its only worn by the Police now.

I wonder if people are aware of the origin of this design of belt ?

General Sir Sam Browne, VC, GCB, KCSI, 1897.

Sam Browne was a British army officer serving in India in the 19th century. In those days officers always carried a sword into battle. It hung from a small metal clip on the waistbelt, called a 'frog'. However, the scabbard tended to slide around a lot when they charged the enemy, meaning that it had to be steadied with the left hand before being drawn.

During the Indian Rebellion of 1857 in India, Captain Sam Browne was serving with the 2nd Punjab Irregular Cavalry. On 31 August 1858, Captain Browne was involved in the fighting near Seerporah. As he charged a cannon being reloaded, he was attacked by one of its crew. Browne received two sword cuts, one on the left knee and one which severed his left arm at the shoulder.He survived the injuries but, without a left hand, he found that he was now unable to control or draw his sword.

Browne came up with the idea of wearing a second belt which went over his right shoulder and held the scabbard in just the spot he wanted. This would hook into a heavy leather belt with "D-rings" for attaching accessories. It also securely carried a pistol in a flap-holster on his right hip and included a binocular case with a neck-strap. Other cavalry officers in the Indian Army began wearing a similar rig and soon it became part of the standard uniform. During the Boer War, the rig was copied by Imperial and Commonwealth troops and eventually became standard issue.

Infantry officers wore a variant that used two suspender-like straps instead of the cross-belt. It was supposedly invented in 1878 by Lieutenant Sir Basil Templer Graham-Montgomery, 5th Baronet of the 60th Rifles while serving in India. There has been a great deal of discussion as to whether Browne modified Graham-Montgomery's design or vice-versa. Since there were no patents issued for either design and both camps have accounts backing up their claims, it may never be decided.

 

[GHOST RIDER]

The uniform worn by Ayub is not a Service Dress. Its a summer uniform with a Sam Browne . SD is a formal winter wear as shown in Post No 2.

I didnt know that PA too has stopped using the Sam Browne Belt. In India its only worn by the Police.

I wonder if people are aware of the origin of this design of belt ?

General Sir Sam Browne, VC, GCB, KCSI, 1897.

Sam Browne was a British army officer serving in India in the 19th century. In those days officers always carried a sword into battle. It hung from a small metal clip on the waistbelt, called a 'frog'. However, the scabbard tended to slide around a lot when they charged the enemy, meaning that it had to be steadied with the left hand before being drawn.

During the Indian Rebellion of 1857 in India, Captain Sam Browne was serving with the 2nd Punjab Irregular Cavalry. On 31 August 1858, Captain Browne was involved in the fighting near Seerporah. As he charged a cannon being reloaded, he was attacked by one of its crew. Browne received two sword cuts, one on the left knee and one which severed his left arm at the shoulder.He survived the injuries but, without a left hand, he found that he was now unable to control or draw his sword.

Browne came up with the idea of wearing a second belt which went over his right shoulder and held the scabbard in just the spot he wanted. This would hook into a heavy leather belt with "D-rings" for attaching accessories. It also securely carried a pistol in a flap-holster on his right hip and included a binocular case with a neck-strap. Other cavalry officers in the Indian Army began wearing a similar rig and soon it became part of the standard uniform. During the Boer War, the rig was copied by Imperial and Commonwealth troops and eventually became standard issue.

Infantry officers wore a variant that used two suspender-like straps instead of the cross-belt. It was supposedly invented in 1878 by Lieutenant Sir Basil Templer Graham-Montgomery, 5th Baronet of the 60th Rifles while serving in India. There has been a great deal of discussion as to whether Browne modified Graham-Montgomery's design or vice-versa. Since there were no patents issued for either design and both camps have accounts backing up their claims, it may never be decided.

Uniform in post number 2 is Pakistan Army ceremonial uniform
Uniform in post 1 are service uniform (summers)
Dark brown version of ceremonial uniform was for winters

 

[third eye]

Uniform in post number 2 is Pakistan Army ceremonial uniform
Uniform in post 1 are service uniform (summers)
Dark brown version of ceremonial uniform was for winters

What you call Ceremonial uniform in military parlance is Service Dress ( SD).

 

[GHOST RIDER]

What you call Ceremonial uniform in military parlance is Service Dress ( SD).

I understand what you are trying to say
But what I am calling a ceremonial dress is termed a ceremonial dress by our Army

 

[544_delta]

I'll get straight to the point, why is that we don't see officers wearing sam browne belts on their service dress and ceremonial uniforms nowdays in the army.The British Army officers still wear sam browne belts relative to their regiments/fighting arms.

i think cadets at PMA still wear those belts

 

[Sage]

Sam browne's belt is a legacy of the past - the British colonial rule and it is better if PA losses it totally.

You have to drop the whole uniform then and almost one hundred traditions within the army ...!

 

[Saquib]

I say they should bring back the Sam Browne Belt; Just look at Gen. Ayub Khan and Gen. Raheel Shariff!

 

[GHOST RIDER]

You have to drop the whole uniform then and almost one hundred traditions within the army ...!

Well said sir

 

[GHOST RIDER]

i think cadets at PMA still wear those belts

Correct
But not all cadets wear them
I think it depends on their designations like ASUO,BSUO
@Xeric could clarify on that
Rest of the cadets wear white belts

 

[asad71]

The uniform worn by Ayub is not a Service Dress. Its a summer uniform with a Sam Browne . SD is a formal winter wear as shown in Post No 2.

I didnt know that PA too has stopped using the Sam Browne Belt. In India its only worn by the Police now.

I wonder if people are aware of the origin of this design of belt ?

General Sir Sam Browne, VC, GCB, KCSI, 1897.

Sam Browne was a British army officer serving in India in the 19th century. In those days officers always carried a sword into battle. It hung from a small metal clip on the waistbelt, called a 'frog'. However, the scabbard tended to slide around a lot when they charged the enemy, meaning that it had to be steadied with the left hand before being drawn.

During the Indian Rebellion of 1857 in India, Captain Sam Browne was serving with the 2nd Punjab Irregular Cavalry. On 31 August 1858, Captain Browne was involved in the fighting near Seerporah. As he charged a cannon being reloaded, he was attacked by one of its crew. Browne received two sword cuts, one on the left knee and one which severed his left arm at the shoulder.He survived the injuries but, without a left hand, he found that he was now unable to control or draw his sword.

Browne came up with the idea of wearing a second belt which went over his right shoulder and held the scabbard in just the spot he wanted. This would hook into a heavy leather belt with "D-rings" for attaching accessories. It also securely carried a pistol in a flap-holster on his right hip and included a binocular case with a neck-strap. Other cavalry officers in the Indian Army began wearing a similar rig and soon it became part of the standard uniform. During the Boer War, the rig was copied by Imperial and Commonwealth troops and eventually became standard issue.

Infantry officers wore a variant that used two suspender-like straps instead of the cross-belt. It was supposedly invented in 1878 by Lieutenant Sir Basil Templer Graham-Montgomery, 5th Baronet of the 60th Rifles while serving in India. There has been a great deal of discussion as to whether Browne modified Graham-Montgomery's design or vice-versa. Since there were no patents issued for either design and both camps have accounts backing up their claims, it may never be decided.

You ought to be an old soldier. You identified the SD correctly. Sadly the cross belt seems to have gone off all armies. But it is necessary when carrying a sword - as the Under Officers and Adjutants of military academies have to. And in recent past a soldier's belt was taken off indicating he was under arrest. Now there is no web belt.